Burnley Grammar School

I remember medicals in primary school where we all had to stand in a line outside the head's office - which the visiting doctor was using - in our awful white 1970's Y fronts. My primary school was co-ed and I remember girls walking past us - though I think they had their medical exams separately, and I don't recall seeing them have to stand in a public corridor in their knickers - I doubt they had to, as in those days girls were thought to have a greater need for privacy than boys. None of us boys thought it odd and we even horsed around a bit in front of the girls. I don't recall feeling even slightly embarrassed at this.

I remember nothing of the actual medical and I was spared a medical at my public school because only boarders had to have one when they joined the Upper School, and I only became a boarder in the sixth form. I remember other sixth formers telling the new boys to watch out for when the doctor said "How do you like school dinners?", because this was inevitably the prelude to having your testicles grabbed and being asked to cough. The same doctor had been visiting the school for years and must have used that line hundreds of times. Actually I think it was a good idea of the doctor's - most 13 year olds would have found this experience a bit awkward, even in the 70's, and I think this helped reduce the embarrassment a bit.

(Apologies for straying off topic a bit)

We had our yearly medical exam and had to line up stripped to the waist outside the medical room.
I could never understand why we had to have our eyes and ears tested while stripped to the waist but that was the rule.
Then still stripped to the waist we went individually before the doctor and nurse.

The school I attended had a typical uniform of navy blue blazer,stripped tie and long trousers.However what intrigued me was that included in the uniform requirement were short pants,knee stockings showing the house colours and garters to hold them in place.The shorts were invariably brief and trim and after being tried on and purchased were deposited in the wardrobe,hopefully never to be worn.
At my first visit to my new school the majority of boys were wearing their school uniform and only a few were wearing shorts,even some of the older ones.I never found out why and didn't enquire,i just thought it was their parents quaint custom.
I never got into trouble at school until I went into the library,when it wasn't my turn,I liked reading and went in to avoid going out in the cold.When the teacher came in although I tried to hide I was caught and told to see her after lessons.I awaited my punishment with trepidation and after waiting for the bell after the last lesson expecting lines or even the cane.After being giver a stern lecture and told to straighten my tie I was told"you will wear short trousers for six weeks".I was devastated and confessed to my parents who could do nothing to get me out of my predicament.

At my all girls secondary school in the early to mid 1970s we had those divided games shorts (culottes)and a long sleeved cotton shirt for outdoor PE in winter.
Indoor PE kit was always navy gym knickers and a white T shirt or polo shirt. For the first couple of years our outdoor kit in summer was the same as the indoor kit but from the third year we were allowed to wear a games skirt over the gym knickers if we wished.

We only had swimming lessons for the first couple of years and had to wear a regulation navy blue swimming costume.

To Jeff
I agree with your final sentence. I think that these days there is too much inhibition. We never thought twice in secondary school about minimal wear for pe or games. Perhaps it was better for being single sex school. Only one female teacher who never went near the pe classes.

From the posts here it seems that schools had different requirements for PE kit. Some schools had white shorts and vests for both boys and girls, as at my school, some schools required both boys and girls do PE in just underwear, others had bare chested in just shorts for boys. Still others required that no underwear be worn under shorts.
I can sympathise with Monty and others here who had to wear just tiny white see-through shorts which they found embarrassing, especially in mixed classes or with female teachers present.

What I find interesting here is Matthew's and others' accounts of having to do swimming classes, and even galas in front of spectators totally naked. I don't think anything could be more embarrassing than that, especially in the presence of female teachers and other female staff and spectators. I can't imagine me having to do that at school.
But I suppose it is like Matthew said, one gets used to everything, and at that age, primary school age it wouldn't have mattered so much. But at an older age into teens, as he mentions, it would have been very embarrassing and humiliating.
But I guess they were more innocent times, unlike today. One wonders if they were in fact better times for kids than today's uptightness and fear of exposure.

We were always stripped to the waist for PE at my school and even the boys who were wary of it soon got used to it.
By the time we reached sixth form many lads had got hairy chests and some thought they were better than the lads with hairless chests!!!

Andrea

I remember wearing those nylon shorts for the first time,albeit with a slight degree of trepidation.We all wore the same white shorts for running,athletics and gymnastics.They were very short and were worn without anything underneath which would easily have been detected due to their transparency.Our mixed school must have offered an alluring site for many female onlookers.

Adrea, yes, i think there were allowances made for more developed boys. They just didn't participate in the galas and i don't blame them. Most of us were just young boys and didn't mind or even think of it as being odd. I would add that if a girl had appeared, then that would have been totally different and we would all have freaked oout.

In answer to type of school. Secondary was all boys. Primary was mixed. For pe boys just removed their shirts & in those days we all wore singlets which were kept on for pe. Girs removed skirts & did pe in regulation navy blue underwear. No equality for girls those days. Boys I knew form other primary schools told me they had to remove their shorts and do pe in their briefs & singlet, just like the girls.

Andrea,

I can't speak for Barney, but I found the tiny white see-through shorts EXTREMELY embarrassing. My birthday is in November so I was old for my year, and as well as that I developed earlier than most of my classmates. During the course of my first term in the Lower School - i.e. Autumn 1974 - I shot up massively in height and by the time of my birthday in November 74 it was impossible for me to wear the shorts without pants, as the rules technically required. Not only was it hugely awkward that everything was pretty much visible through the pants themselves, it was actually physically impossible for me to prevent things from hanging out of the side of my shorts....you can understand why I started breaking school rules by wearing pants underneath from about the time of my birthday. I am just relieved I was not compelled to remove them! (If the PE master noticed than perhaps he had compassion on me!)

Monty

Barney,
Those see through white shorts must have been pretty embarrassing - I thought our white polo shirts were bad enough, but at least we had a bra underneath them when we developed! Was it an all boys school, or were there girls around too?

Matthew,
Was any allowance made for the boy who had started to mature earlier than the rest? When I was at primary school there weren't any changing rooms so boys and girls had to change together in the classroom. A few girls who had started to develop in the final year were allowed to go to the toilets to change in privacy though.

Andrea

It was always perishing cold in our gym - no matter how warm it might have been outdoors. Considering that one side was a huge expanse of glass, it must have been a work of machiavellian genius on the part of the architect, (or the north facing aspect) that accounted for the constantly chilly temperature.

To make matters worse, the showers were always cold and we were allowed insufficient time to get properly dried afterwards. Thus, we hurried to our next lessons exhausted, wet and shivering, and feeling in no fit state to give the subject our full attention.

If all that, three times a week, was supposed to be healthy, then give me a sofa and a plate of chips anytime.

Dave
Our pe kit was shorts no pants or top, plimsolls no socks indoors.

Outside again no pants but with a tee shirt and bare top, but Autumn/Winter terms a tee shirt or other type top no specific uniform.

The shorts were were white,very short & tight which & thin. I think that this was insisted upon to deter us from wearing pants which would have been seen. Furthermore I expect the tightness was meant togave us support because we never knew about any athletic support or told about it. So in winter extremely chilly and heaven help you if it rained (see through)

Scout camp we wore shorts normally for me my school ones because my parents could not afford too many different types. Pants were worn but because my shorts were white of course my pants showed. However, in that day and age we all wore white briefs so no one cared.

Scout uniform was khaki shorts so no problem nothing showed in public.

Monty, i know, you could not imagine it now. There was probably only one or two boys who were 14, the majority being 12 - 13. Plus all the junior school. We were all generally pretty immature although there was one lad who had developed more than most. My school was one of those that was clinging on to the old public school image, ie cold showers, no heating but slowly changed after i had left. Very strict and a harsh regime so you abided with what was required without hesitation.

Matthew,

Without wishing to doubt you in any way, I have to say your account seems very unusual. Was it really the case that boys as old as 15 had to walk up naked to receive their swimming prizes from the headmaster's wife? In England, in the 1970's?

My mother was Akela of a Cub Scout Pack in the 1960's and 70's and as an older teen I sometimes went with her on Cub camps. I am quite sure that cubs - that's to say, boys up to the age of 11 - were quite unabashed about being naked in her presence. In fact, I remember a county cub swimming gala when I was a cub where she came into the changing rooms and gave a pep talk whilst surrounded by dozens of naked or semi-naked little boys. No one batted an eyelid. But the point is we were little boys - pre pubescent - and the account by a previous poster of a line of naked 11 year olds receiving swimming prizes from the headmaster's wife at a no-trunks school swim meet is one that seems quite normal for the 1970's and before.

I do think it was a very different matter once puberty was reached, however. Although unabashed about public nudity in front of other males, I would have been mortified to have been naked in front of females any time after the age of 11, and I cannot think of any occasions in my youth when this happened to me or anyone I know.

I boarded in the sixth form, and the only females we ever saw were the housemaster's wife and the matron. Neither of them every saw any of us naked, as far as I'm aware, although we had daily communal showers (no cubicles or curtains) and even the bathrooms had multiple baths in the same room. We thought nothing of the housemaster talking to us while we were in the showers, but the housemaster's wife... that was inconceivable.

The only episode I can think of is when years later I was in the army in Germany in the early 1990's and went to a public swimming pool. Whilst changing in the large open plan changing room a cleaning woman barged in and started mopping the floor. I was rather startled - though I think I was decent, as it happened - but there were also half a dozen (German) teenage boys getting changed. I was curious to see how they would react to the intrusion of a female so I remember observing their expressions - with one exception they reacted with total unconcern. The exception was one lad who seemed to make a point of dropping his towel and trying to make eye contact with the cleaner whilst completely starkers, in a very brazen way, to signify (I think) his disapproval - a sort of "what are you looking at, then?" attitude. (All wasted effort as she didn't so much as glance at any of us but kept plying her mop).

But Germans are different....

I do entirely agree with you about attempting to cover up making things worse. I once swam in a pool (not at school) where nudity was the rule in the water and I vividly recall a boy of about 13 cupping his genitals in a way which did nothing except attract attention. He didn't seem to be made any differently to anyone else so he achieved nothing except ensure that people noticed him whereas if he hadn't made such an elaborate display no-one would have given him a second thought!

Apologies if this is a bit off topic but many fascinating reminiscences have been raised by many posts here.

Jeff
When females came to watch the house galas, it was fine and no one really minded. The one exception was the odd new boy who tried to cover himself up. In fact, that made it worse. The headmasters wife always handed out the prizes at the end and you had to go and collect any silver ware still butt naked.
We did have corporal punishment but it was the last few years of it - late 70's. Cane and slipped. Gym master always preferred to dish out the gym shoe which was mighty painful and left marks.

Monty

I agree with your final comments. In all my years at school & Scouts it was all boys and we did not think about it being odd seeing each other starkers. Like you during PE when we paired up to perform handstands & other exercises we often saw each others equipment & thought nothing of it.

Yes lads were expected to be wearing the mininmum of clothing especially at camp. With regards to impropriety, one was never alone with either a teacher or Scout leader.Thinking about it the Leader was protected from any allegations because the Scout leader always had at least one assiatnt with him. You were always togther as a group. So without thinking about it there was safety in numbers and yes in the context of camp, the one NOT stripping off was thought to be odd for not joining in. I know when we had hot weather at camp,some boys would jump into a river butt naked without thinking. It took me some time but eventually after over coming my shyness,I joined in.
In fact I loved going to camp, and got to enjoy the freedom of being away from my parents so I could join in with the others and experience the fun. I did not have to wear pj's although they were packed in my kit & I could go to bed andsleep in my pants or if I dare like the other boys with nothing on.

Those were days of freedom, unlike the these days when evryone seems afraid to do anything in case they infringe some rule.

Matthew,
Were the boys embarrassed to swim naked in front of female teachers during school galas, especially at the age you mention when the boys were in their teens?
Also, did you have corporal punishment at the school?

Hi Barney!

What was your whole PE kit? Were you allowed to wear shirts? What did you wear at scout camps for physical exercises?

Michael,

Thanks for your comments. I had always assumed swimming trunks under shorts was a late innovation so it's interesting to hear a different story.

The no-underpants rule with PE shorts was sensible if you were going to take a shower afterwards, but as we never had time for a shower after PE it seemed pointless and, by the time we were in the Upper School, positively embarrassing with the very short semi-transparent nylon white shorts we had to wear. I distinctly remember at one boy stripping his underpants off to put his shorts on for PE right up to the age of 16, when he was really far too old to be doing this with any degree of comfort or decency. But no one thought it odd. And I am sure he was not alone, although I remember him in particular because on one occasion someone slapped his bare arse as a jocular insult, as he was getting changed, which he reacted to with extreme annoyance (as anyone would).

Barney's remarks reminded me how very different things were back then. I was in the scouts from 1975-1979 and there was a culture of casual nudity at our scout camps, encouraged by the scoutmaster (though he didn't participate in it). I should stress that I was unaware of any kind of impropriety which was, I believe, far from anyone's mind - it was just considered natural. Although I wasn't shy, I thought it a bit odd that others like to spend so much time undressed. Looking back it seems ironic to recall that I was teased for NOT going naked with the suggestion that I was being "unmanly" or even "queer" !

It was certainly a different world then. I look back on those times with pleasant nostalgia and I am convinced that neither I nor anyone I knew was treated improperly or abusively. It was all a far cry from the hysteria of the present day, which cannot be good for the psychological health of modern youngsters.

I attended a secondary modern school between 1961 & 1966 and during all that time we never wore any suppport for either pe or games. It was not suggested to us. We did not have naked swimming lessons as these were at a public pool. Although only the calss was present. However there were the showers and a pe maaster patrolling the changing rooms during the prepubic years. WE never thought anything strange. I think it was an era when most young men who became teachers had served in the forces possibly only as National Service. They along with our dads were used to the attitude of all fellas together and living & changing in in full view of each other in the huts/barracks where there would be several men together. Also most of my classmates were in one of the local Scout Troops or other organisations and would often go camping there would be up to 6 boys in one large tent so we were used to getting undressed together to say nothing of the primative Latrine toilets which had no privacy.

But times have moved on. Are youngsters now "softer" and more inhibited. Finally, I remember the whole class lining up for the regular Medical Exam. Down to underpants ( briefs of Course) no designer boxers, and dropping for the doctor often a woman. What do others think?

Michael,

Re PE underwear.My ex told me that at the start of his third year at secondary school in the early 1970s their pe teacher sat all the boys down in the changing room and told them that they should start to wear an 'athletic supporter'(jockstrap) for pe and games lessons, or risk 'doing themselves an injury'. For the previous two years they had not been allowed to wear any underwear under their shorts.

He said that most boys did as they were told and he continued to wear one for sports into adulthood.

It's interesting to read that in other schools it wasn't considered necessary at all, or that teachers spoke to certain pupils when they thought it was becoming necessary.

In some cases there was a similar situation in our school with bras. Several of my classmates started to wear them after being 'advised' that it was time by our pe teacher!
He

Monty
I was very interested to read your full account of your games and pe experiences.
Although I went to school in slightly earlier times, my memory of events is quite similar. In particular with regard to the prohibition of what I took to be our everyday underwear for sports.
In fact nobody ever checked what we were wearing and many boys soon took to wearing swimming trunks as a support. A major difference was that we were never instructed to wear a jock strap, not even by our most unpleasant sports master. Some boys, however, were advised to wear swimming trunks if they were in school teams and seemed to be in need of them!
It was only later when some senior boys took to jock straps instead of swimming trunks - rather than the reverse as you describe.
In any event it is interesting to read your comments on this subject as the majority of commenters had nevr it seems worn any kind of underwear / support which was not the case at my school.
If you or anyone wants to email me I would be pleased.

The swimming was always done naked for lessons either as a class or one to one. We did have galas for years 4 and 5, ie 12 to 14 years olds. If they were house galas they were always naked and some female teachesr watched, especially the sports teachers and house mistresses. The school galas were not done naked as we had to wear black trunks

To dave.yes we were allowed rugby shirt to wear for rugby and football, cross country running was a plain white teeshirt.for the gym class we were told only shorts. no trainers or teeshirt.we had to wear white cotton (rugby style) for outdoors and white nylon shorts for gym class.everyone seemed to wear umbro.As i said before no underwear was allowed.just swim trunks,nothing or some class members began wearing a jockstrap/athletic supporter.As were developing more of the class became aware of chest hair and were embarressed when walking back to the changing rooms passing the girls.

An interesting and nostalgic photograph. At my school in the 70's we would have looked exactly like this in PE.

We often played "shirts v skins" tag games. One boy took off his vest and chased the others - when he "tagged" someone, the tagged boy had to take off his vest and join his team. As the numbers of skins increased it became harder and harder to avoid them until the last boy with a vest was caught. At that point, he became the "tagger" and the game began in reverse - but this time everyone he caught put his vest back on until everyone was fully clothed again.

I remember it being quite fun and energetic and I don't recall anyone thinking it odd or uncomfortable that we ran around shirtless.

We didn't shower after PE because there was always pressure to get to the next lesson. One day our regular PE master was replaced by a very sporty South African rugby coach who really put us through our paces. We were all dripping with sweat - much more so than was usually the case. At the end he said "right you'd better get a shower" - but we pointed out we wouldn't have time. (There were showers in the gym but they were rarely used). "Oh - well I'm afraid you'll have to smell for the rest of the day then." And we did - I remember wishing we did have time for a shower - we must have been about 15 then.

This was at an independent school in the English midlands. There were in fact 3 sub-schools on site - Prep, Lower and Upper. I joined the Lower in 1974 and left the Upper in 1981. On my first PE lesson I was getting changed into the (rather small) split-side nylon white shorts when another boy said "you can't wear underpants under your shorts." I was a bit surprised but did what I was told. Funnily enough the no-underpants rule was never enforced by the PE master and I suspect it was a rule in the Prep school. (Most boys, unlike me, had started in the Prep School).

I do remember one boy climbing the rope and all of us standing below watching him - he was quite some way up - and his equipment was clearly visible hanging out of his shorts. I remember feeling rather embarrassed on his behalf but if he or anyone else noticed anything they didn't say. We would have all been about 12 and he hadn't started puberty.

When I went into the Upper School I kept my underpants on beneath my shorts but some of the others I think continued to go commando right up to the end of compulsory PE at 16, though there was I'm sure no rule either way.

It was different for rugby where jock straps were compulsory. We had a rather unpleasant Lower School master who used to check we were wearing jock straps by going along a line of boys and pulling our shorts out from the back to look down them. I told my mother this and she just said "well you'd better make sure you always wear your jock strap!"

Later in the Upper school some boys took to wearing swimming trunks for rugy instead of jock straps but this was technically against school rules and I always wore a jock. I remember a classmate being tackled so severely when we were about 17 that his shorts were ripped to his knees and he was left lying bare-arsed on the grass (like me he was one who never wore trunks only a jock). No-one passed any remarks on this.

Swimming was done in an open air pool adjacent to the gym and we wore trunks, but interestingly this had not always been the case. I remember leafing through the huge bundle of school rules and found one which said "Sixth formers may wear swimming costumes". So clearly at some point trunks had been a sixth form privilege and junior boys swam naked. This was confirmed to me later by a (very old) boy. I don't know when this practice stopped; probably as early as the 1940's. (There were lots of bizarre rules which still persisted - e.g. I remember carrying an umbrella was a sixth form privilege - so it was the first thing I did when I became eligible).

I recently met an elderly couple on holiday who remarked that their three sons had been at Berkhamstead school in the 70's - the last one left in the early 80's - and the wife told me all her sons swam naked in school but the practice was ended before the last one left. Her husband said "I knew they swam naked but I never knew it had stopped before the youngest left." She said "I didn't tell you because it wasn't important."

I asked her what she thought about the practice and she said "I think it was very practical - they didn't have to worry about leaving mouldy kit around". She said neither she nor her boys thought there was anything odd about this. She did add that for swimming galas when spectators were present they did wear trunks.

Apart from Berkhamstead I think compulsory nude swimming for boys also persisted at Newcastle Royal Grammar and Manchester Grammar into the early 1980's. These must have been the last schools in the country to abandon the practice.

Much of the reason was probably conservatism. Our school uniform was originally tweed but when Queen Victoria died it was changed to mourning black. We were still wearing that when I was there! Although I gather this has now changed. I calculate that we were therefore mourning Queen Victoria for nearly 100 years!

Hi David Mayne?

Were you allowed to wear shirts for inside and outside PE?

Matthew,
When you say that the "swimming was always done naked" was this only for swimming lessons or also when there were swimming competitions or galas in front of mixed spectators?

Was it a boys only school or mixed?

I visited a normal secondary school in the mid 80's.Upon our first p e lesson we were told that our bodies would develop and that we would have to shower.it was common for the teacher to be in the changing room making sure you all showered and not just run through.We also had to wear white shorts inside and outside.We were told to wear a swim costume or no pants which was awkward when it was a wet rugby lesson.One day the teacher told us we were not allowed to play football as the pitch was frozen and said we were to go swimming instead.those that chose to not bring swim trunks to wear were told to just wear their shorts.The horror on their faces I can remember now.The teacher said yes they were see through but we were all the same and hget on with it.