Clitheroe Royal Grammar School

Chris G, there weren't any rules about underwear at my school for sport. First rule though was no underwear at all for any sport form whatever, and naked for swimming (except for inter school competitions) unti about 13, the age most of us transferred from junior to senior school. Then i remember the prefects telling us to get a jockstrap or failing that use your swimming trunks! Common sense, yes ... but we just did what we were told. This was late 60s early 70s.

Typo Correction: date should have been mid 1950s, not mid 1950!

Martin, Garth, Jeff
I was at two secondary schools, at neither of which were there any rules about underwear, other than common sense! At the first school, most of us went commando for PE in the gym and outdoor athletics, PE etc., but when we were about 13, the PE master did advise us to get some sort of support. He mentioned swimming trunks , which we generally all possessed, and jock-straps, which none of us had ever heard of (this was mid 1950)., but many of us carried on commando anyway.

I moved to another school for my 6th form years, and found a mixture of speedos, jockstraps and commando. I went commando or swimming trunks for a few months, then got a jock-strap, which was a great improvement .

Jeff, we were told to wear a jockstrap or failing that swimming trunks at my school from the age of 13 ... trunks were regarded as the poor man's variant though!

I found a You tube film which looks exactly like my school did a few years later, dress the same and a bit of drill but mostly fun our teachers were cool too about what colour kit you wore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkERhmQltO0

At my secondary school for pe and games we wore shorts with nothing underneath from the age of 11. this was right through all the years. We were never told about wearing anything to give support. It was a strict "no pants" rule all the way through school to the age of 16.

I agree with the comments made by Chris G.
Surely the reason the boys are required to wear swimming trunks under their shorts is the same reason that, back in my school days, we were told to wear a jockstrap, namely support.

Mr Dando

The problem is that, while many school PE kits ARE actually "gender neutral" already, in that you don't get much more neutral than T-shirt and shorts, schoolkids themselves are not, and their anatomical items that I once heard a nurse describe as "the floppy bits" generally come in two varieties, each with its own particular support requirements. To put it bluntly, roughly one half of the population requires the sort of protection that well-fitting swimming trunks of the so-called Speedo variety provide while a similar fraction is better served by the devices commonly known as Sports Bras. Each to their own, as it were,

Garth we must learn from past educational misdeeds by ensuring all PE Kits are now gender nuetral and do not discriminate against males. With Schools returning next week during the Covid epidemic there are still some schools which force boys to remove their underwear and wear swimming trunks under their shorts.

I believe this is nothing more than a version of the "No Underpants rule" which was forced on males during the 1970's and would not be enforced today against females.

Here is one offending institution:

https://www.hinchingbrookeschool.net/page/?title=Uniform+Items+%2D+PE%2FSportswear&pid=141

UNIFORM ITEMS - PE/SPORTSWEAR
What PE kit does my child need?
Short sleeved PE top green with house colour panels
Long sleeved PE top green with house colour panels
Shorts black with school logo
Skorts black with green panels
Sports socks long black with house colour
Trainers
Gum shield recommended for rugby/hockey
Optional:
Black Jogging bottoms and white or black thermal/Cool shirt to be worn under PE kit
Base layer
Unisex training top
Football/rugby boots Kite marked safety studs strongly recommended
Black Leggings; ONLY TO BE USED IN DANCE

Swimwear

boys - trunks for swimming and for wearing under shorts in black

girls - costume, a discreet one-piece in black

As recent developments in Afghanistan have shown modesty is a very important concern and we should not neglect this if we want harmony with the muslim population within our own country.

If we are to build a truly multi cultural society we should not be forcing males to remove their underwear and put on swimming trunks before football or rugby.

The Quran 24:31 obliges men to observe modesty: “Say to the believing men that they restrain their eyes and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Surely, Allah is well aware of what they do.” This verse rebukes forced laws on women that claim “women must cover otherwise men are distracted”.

Lets use this opportunity to build back better for September 2021.

As I have written previously on the subject of swim briefs(nowadays known by the generic term Speedo's) I think it is a shame that they are considered unsuitable to be worn unless it is for "serious" swimming at a pool.
I much prefer what I like is the freedom of wearing briefs in stead of shorts which cling to the body when wet and these days are far to long.
On another topic I saw a young lad going to play football for his junior team with sock s so long and shorts so long they almost met together. That was clearly the fashion it was not just growing room in the clothes.

Ian
I often wore slips as a boy and they were almost as you describe,only they had a pouch at the front and a very narrow strap that ran between my buttocks,which left my bottom almost bare.They were tied round my waist and fastened in a bow on my right side.They were perfect for the beach and playing at home.

Graham (17 July) et al.
I remember a lad at the end of primary in the late 50's whose parents had bought a pair of very practical trunks - two triangles, partially cut away at the leg, stitched together at one corner and tied with cord at both sides (possibly German "dreiecksbadehose"). They were already more revealing than Speedos, but as he grew, so did the gaps at the side.
Once he got to secondary, he'd had a growth spurt and was an early maturer. His trunks only just covered the essentials, much to his discomfort. Added to that, the swimming teacher used to pick on him and make an example of him. Not nice, but entertainment for the mob in past times was often so.
He was saved by the introduction of standard school trunks - Speedo style but with a nice shaped pouch at the front. Up till then, we other boys had been wearing fuller shaped trunks, so he had a bit of revenge on us.
Sadly, his trunks were the only ones of that style I have seen.

Yeah, but I think the problem was the fact we were shirtless. I was get used to that when I played with friends and a lot of punishments were very tough (stand up tied shirtless in front of them so they can do whatever they want on your chest). Obviously we weren’t at school, I’m talking about when we played outside school

The Rotters' Club is a 2001 novel by Jonathan Coe. It is set in Birmingham during the 1970s and inspired by the author's experiences at King Edward's School, Birmingham. The author commented as follows:-

"l began ransacking my memory for incidents that had taken place during my schooldays. The most vivid was my terror at almost falling victim to the rule that on days when there was a swimming lesson, if you forgot to bring in your trunks, you had to swim without them. I built this episode into an elaborate comic set piece, and for years afterwards this would invariably be the passage that I read aloud at British literary festivals, where it got big laughs. Then I read it to an audience in Canada, who listened in horrified silence, and afterwards questioned me about the autobiographical dimension to the book, whether this had really happened to me, and if I had sought therapy as a result. An interesting lesson in cultural difference. "

The BBC adapted the book for TV in 2005 and included the scene in which the main character has forgotten his trunks and frets about having to swim naked. The BBC film included a brief shot of the character naked from behind (as it were).

I wonder whether a British audience today would react like those horrified Canadians.

I remember when I was at my Primary/middle school there was a pupil there who often forgot his kit and was forced to do both inside and outside PE in just pants and vest.

Unhappily today there are still schools which make kids do PE in just pant and vest.

https://www.lakesprimaryschool.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Parental-information-leaflet-for-school-uniform1.pdf

Dark blue shorts & white T-shirt.
The youngest children can simply
participate in vest and pants as
dealing with extra clothing can take
up an inordinate amount of time
P E indoors is done barefoot unless a child has a veruca or
other reason for protecting their feet.

https://maryland.newham.sch.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/School-Uniform-Policy.pdf

Infants Navy blue shorts, white T-shirts, socks and plimsolls. They may change into track suits in very cold weather.
Junior Navy blue shorts, white T-shirts, socks, plimsolls or light-weight training shoes. They may wear track suits in very cold weather.
For hygiene reasons children must change out of their normal clothing for P.E. This includes footwear.

https://www.queensbridge.bolton.sch.uk/statutory/school-uniforms/

the KS1 children do PE in their vest and pants. They are allowed to have bare feet but the use of elastic-sided plimsolls is advisable.
The KS2 children wear shorts and T-shirts. Trainers are for outside lessons only, black plimsolls are for indoor lessons. Children in the older classes also require a swimming costume and clothing suitable for organised games.

http://www.st-thomasheaton.stockport.sch.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/SCHOOL-UNIFORM-KS1.pdf

Indoor PE Kit

Navy shorts and white, short-sleeved t-shirt.
Reception children will undress to vest and pants for gymnastics.
KS1 children wear black pumps or have bare feet.
Kit to be kept in a named bag and taken home regularly for washing.
Football shirts are not allowed for PE lessons.
Games/Outdoor PE Kit
White t-shirt (not baggy) and navy shorts for both boys and girls.
Navy sweatshirt and jogging pants for cold and damp weather.
‘Hoodies’ are not permitted for safety reasons.
Trainers or stronger pumps are required.
Football shirts are not allowed for PE lessons.

https://www.woodlandsprimaryschool.com/online-office/school-uniform

In the Infants, children work in vests, pants and bare feet for indoor activities. For outdoor activities (warm weather only) children work in shorts, tee shirts and plimsolls. In the Juniors, children wear shorts, tee shirts and plimsolls for all activities. PE kits should be brought to school at the beginning of the half term and hung on the child’s peg. They will then be sent home every half term to be washed.

It is time we stopped children being forced to PE in bare feet or in just their vest and knickers. Please let us protect the vulnerable.

Rummaging through my collection of outdoor clothes from when I was a Scout Leader I have found a pair of Ron Hill's bottoms which I bought wand used several time when taking part in the three peaks of Yorkshire Challenge with other scout leaders.
I was advised to wear them by another leader and I was pleased that he recommended them.
MY days of serious walking are now over, but I still wear them occasional when going on a mild ramble in the countryside.

TimH - actually, i still have two items of InterSparta swimwear, the briefs with the metal clip in the waistband to avoid the worst excesses of the "towel-dance". Strictly for 20th century Mediterranean beaches though, not for the local swimming pool as they make Speedos look positively over-dressed.

Graham - Crikey! Someone else who had 'Skants' and bought from 'Intersparta!

Looking into Fixx's 'Book of Running' last night the chapter 'Off the Beaten Track' is a joy - it starts with a discussion of orienteering and then moves onto that wonderful 'sport' of fell-running, which so many people seem to do now. (Too old for both now, I'm afraid to say).

I remember the Y Front Skants. The trouble with the underwear of today unless you wear boxers which come in various colours, for those that wear briefs or slips, the choice seems to be limited to dull monochrome shades.
In my days at secondary school(all boys ) we wore whites briefs but nothing under shorts for pe. No top when indoors. Those days pe was really gymnastics(vaulting horse, rope climbing etc) nowadays from what my son has told me, in secondary school, pe is really what we knew as games. Any serious gymnastics is purely for those taking GCSE PE.

I can confirm Garth's observation about nylon briefs. I had some Y-Front "Skants" in the early sixties, and there were even briefer items available from Inter-Sparta, a mail-order supplier in Bristol by the mid sixties.

Tim H
Thank you for your response and information

Hi Tim H,
I remember reading the " Complete book of running" and the chapter on running kit especially !!

Garth
Nylon briefs did exist I had some in the late 60s and into the 70s.
I did look in Jim Fixx's 'Complete Book of Running' (remember that? Published in 1977). He recommends nylon shorts in summer, although cotton in cooler conditions. He prefers nylon. Talking of 'support' he suggests 'Jockey shorts' or, if you want more support, go for a jockstrap - in 'nylon; it dries faster than cotton'.

I think the problem is not short but shirt, for punishment I think is difficult to be shirtless especially if you have to run under heavy rain or nail barechested

with regards to P E shorts, at our school we wore cotton ones but they were rather short and of course being the 60's no underwear was worn, or top for pe.
This seemed to be the norm, and even now on my regular visits to the gym I do not wear anything under my shorts (although they are more dignified and longer in length.)
Dave, I never knew that nylon briefs existed. I would not have thought that was good material for underwear.
For our swimming lessons at a municipal pool we wore trunks of the briefs design, and again I continue to wear that type when swimming at the pool at the Gym.
However, when on holiday or swimming when my wife and son are present I have to wear shorts urgh!!! Interestingly when we are able to go abroad for a holiday when at a pool or on the beach, it is obvious who the "Brits" are because they are all wearing ridiculously long board shorts( and it is apparent that some of the young men wear boxers under their swim shorts) whereas every other nation the males are comfortable with "Speedo" type trunks.

Dave

Getting a pair of 'Freedom' shorts after the baggy heavy cotton things which we'd worn before was a game-changer! I tended to wear light nylon briefs under them. Ron Hill (who died recently) was a long-distance runner (who ran most days until advanced age) who was a textile scientist who developed so much of what we take for granted. I still think his basic design is the best. Later I went into Nike. Introducing 'technical' shorts for things like fell-walking was a great thing - compared with what we used to wear - thinks woollen breeches in the Lake District.
Regarding retro Adidas - a lot are sold minus the fabric liner (which presumably had gone 'saggy'). Adidas also produced shorts (in Royal Blue) for the West German Army in the 1980s period - these come up to - generally minus the side stripes.

Hi Tim H,
I`ve just been looking at your post and a few others and the chat about those nylon shorts brings back fond memories.
I also used to wear Bukta, Umbro, Adidas etc and loved them, but by the time I got my first Ron Hill (sprinter/ freedom) shorts I was wearing a jockstrap and just as well !!.
If like me you enjoy the shorts of that era could I suggest you look up a site called " Glanz shorts" they sell all sorts of football and athletic shorts, and at a good price too.

Regards Dave.

James & Nick - some Adidas shorts were lined - others weren't. Umbro, tended not to be, likewise firms like Bukta & Litesome (in the period we're generally talking about). From memory, early Ron Hill 'Freedom' shorts were unlined.

Retro Umbro, Nike & Adidas shorts appear frequently on Ebay - often at inflated prices. For new shorts in a variety of fabrics look at a firm called 'Dapa Designs' - some of their stuff is a bit 'exotic' but there's some good stuff there. An American manufacturer is Soffe - look on Amazon - ('Old School' nylon shorts - a.k.a. 'Ranger Pantys').

Chris G,Nick,
They were very expensive and I remember they cost £5.25 which was quite a lot of money at the time.
They didn't come with a cotton slip inside and I didn't wear anything under them. The satin finish made them look aesthetically pleasing and when they fitted so tightly they looked as though they had been sprayed on.

Only as I got older. I started wearing them at school and the rule was no underwear. I wore them at home during the warmer weather and just carried on as normal wearing just the shorts.

As I got older I did wear briefs some of the time or swimming trunks under if I was at the beach. I always liked the feel of the soft, shiny material on my skin though.

To this day I don’t wear jeans or any rough material.