Clitheroe Royal Grammar School

Tom, Our vests were red,, white, light blue or green depending on your house. The shorts were black with a chunky corresponding coloured stripe running down each leg so it was easy to pick each other out.
My parents both fully supported the school' having us bare chested ouas much as possible regardless of the conditions. Shortly after my 10th birthday I was told I no longer needed a vest for bed and started me sleeping bare chested from that point. .

In the mid to late 90's when I was in school the shirts were optional, but it wasn't explained in advance, but it was introduced by PE teachers on the first day. I think it should have been written in the kit list because it would have allowed us to make a choice in advance and think about it.

In person they explained the kit by saying the indoor kit was the white shorts, bare feet, and a red singlet, but you do not need to wear the top, and it's preferred not to. This meant that those of us who were shy about it were cautious to join the 2-4 boys who would come to class bare chested.

It would have been better, if choice is allowed to have it written in the kit list in advance like this:

Indoor kit
- White shorts
Student may choose to be either bare chested or wear a red singlet

That way when we were buying the kit, my mum could have asked my preference and I wouldn't have had to go through the uncertainty of trying to be brave enough to come to class without the top.

Pete that sounds like my experience. We had four house colours at school and relevant vests for gym according to house colour we were in. Matching house colour socks too, white with a stripe along the top part. Quite a nice kit really. Except we rarely wore it. Most teachers (1974-78) made us change out of our day clothes for school and not bother putting the vest on.

I can only speak for myself but it did feel like many gym teachers in those times preferred classes done with bare chests if they could do so even if the school said you had an actual kit to wear.

Andy. we were told by the PE teachers before the first lesson exactly what to wear - strip to the waist for gym, basketball and cross country absolutely no exceptions in all conditions. Outside usually the teachers handpicked a skins team for football and rugby or they'd simply make the whole class strip usually for a fitness lesson. Though each house had it's own coloured vests and shorts white, red, green and blue the teachers much preferred every boy was stripped off as much as possible.

One for Cameron and myself - true Northerners.
I remember hearing a joke(?) on a Radio 4 comedy programme a few years back about al PE teachers being "Gay, Northern sadists". I smiled and thought to myself "You've only got it partially right - we kept the best to ourselves"..

Did boys know in advance that cross county was run stripped to the waist ? (1970's grammar)

We had the usual kit list, but all it said was "plimsolls are required for cross country in addition to normal pe shorts", so you can read this either way.

The first lesson we were told to get changed, and while most boys were ready with no tops, a few had t shirts or even rugby shirts on. Boys with older brothers knew the rules, maybe other parents talked amongst themselves in advance, maybe some boys/parents didn't believe that even in winter we ran stripped, with no exceptions.

While no sanctions were applied, boys wearing shirts were rapidly told to strip!

Did you know in advance if you had to run shirtless at your school ?

Same as you Andy. Bare chested cross country was the done way at my school in Coventry throughout much of the school year until summer term when they stopped it until autumn term came around again.

I always thought I was hard done by at school and that what we did was a quirk to my school so I've been quite taken to see so many others saying the same on the no shirts running in PE.

I seem so young and fragile when I think back to doing this for the first time aged just twelve and skinny. I recall the first few we did in quite nice weather and being told to get used to doing it when it was far worse outside, and we did too. I think the only time we stuck tops on was if there was actually an air frost!

There was no opting out of the cross country, everybody had to do it. There was no opting out of going out bare chested either unless the teacher decided otherwise. I can certainly remember assembling ready to set off in PE with my teeth actually chattering I was feeling so cold out there at the start, so I'e no idea how cold it really was on those days but it might shock me if I knew the truth what it was.

Teachers seemed somewhat oblivious. It makes me ponder why we ran in this manner so much and what purpose it served to start PE by freezing the class.

You say your parents knew Andy but I don't think I ever mentioned this to mine, or if I did I've forgotten. But that school knows best attitude is right, they'd never have argued with anything school asked like that unless the PE teacher had literally clobbered me perhaps.

In response to Ian's comments about 10 inch shorts. when at junior school the uniform was grey shorts all year round unlike nowadays when the boys seem to wear longs from the day they start junior/primary school.
However, whereas when most boys went to secondary school they wore long trousers. My dad and a few other lads parents decided that we would still wear shorts (yes all year round) I think my dad's reason was because I was not very tall. However by the time I was about 12 shorts to fit were difficult to find and so mine were very short and tight and cause some discomfort.. I think by my 13th birthday my dad relented and at long last I was dressed in long trousers.

We ran bare chested - this was in the Midlands.

As to my parents they firmly believed the school was always right !!

(To be honest, my Mum, thought "poor little lamb will be frozen" but my Dad took the view " toughen him up a bit, not going to kill him to have to strip to his shorts for cross country")

One for the two Scottish boys here, that's a good coincidence. So what did your folks at home make of all this? Running without your shirts on in Scotland in November sounds a bit mean. I ran the cross country in a sweatshirt, long sleeves in southern England and that could be cold enough some runs.

Stuart, happy to let you know. Most often, any laggards would have to do another run or two on the following days. Sometimes PE detentions were imposed (an hour's hard exercise, followed by a cold shower).
Once or twice each term, our teacher would announce that he would impose six of the best (with his Lochgelly tawse) on laggards. The reason for this was to ensure we made the effort, rather than just to punish us, so he said.
It was all part of a tough, zero tolerance regime. Not pleasant, but it made us fit.
I was at school north of Dundee in the 60s, so I am certain that my teacher and Cameron's would have known each other. It sounds though they would have approved of each others methods. I certainly remember visiting PE teachers and maybe he was one.

Ian

Interested you were disciplined for not making a sufficient effort at xc.

We were punished for things like taking a short cut, smoking and for being "lazy/slow"

How were you punished ?

I'm up in Dundee and we were still running shirtless cross countries in November up here back in 1973-75 or so and woe betide any wee boys who thought to suggest we should not be doing so. We used to wave our arms about before beginning but it could be damned chilly at times, no warm up could overcome the colder ones and worse was when wet, milder wet days harder than colder dry ones. One PE teacher was genuinely sadistic and took us out on a frosty morning just the same, I think it was all about endurance or something.

We did cross country starting in the early 60s wearing only plimsolls and shorts (they were short - only 10 inches outside leg). Usually the race was competitive or against the clock, supervised by prefects. They would report back to our PE teacher at the end of the race. Any boy who misbehaved, or cheated, or did not make enough effort would then be punished by him.

Dave.

Nowadays there would be a word for a teacher behaving like that in front of his class - trolling them.

I know the feeling you describe quite well myself on many occasions out doing the school cross country course. Flipping annoying isn't it when you're out there freezing your tits off in front of a well wrapped teacher who might not even be running the course with you as well but taking short cuts, using a bike a some here said or even as it looked in the video that a teacher was driving the course along the road with those in the clip from the 80's and not in any kind of PE kit himself but regular clothing.

When you go to senior school you expect the PE teachers to fully muck in with you.

Further to Mark's comment, similar here. Once my PE teacher had a scarf wrapped around his neck, long thermals on his legs, multi layers and jacket on top and a bobble hat too, while gently riding a racing bike besides me, who was total shirtless and skinny, with little body fat for warmth, a pair of white trainers, no socks on, and dark shorts on. The same went for the other couple of dozen of us. The total contrast between us and the teacher had to be seen to be believed and it was not exactly a unique situation either, far from it. It was obvious that there were a handful amongst us who actually loved running like this.

We often had a teacher run/lead cross country on our weekly runs (grammar school - 1970's). I say "lead" but really it was more "check/encourage/control"

The PE teacher involved always wore a rugby shorts/shirt - needed to say we were only allowed to wear shorts and had to strip to the waist at all times.

Teachers should lead by example and run the same shirtless as the boys if that's how they want it done. Only one teacher out of about six ever did so at my school on the cross country. Even he didn't do it often, while we did so quite often. I say run, he was also the only teacher to actually run regular with us, the others had a couple of pushbikes and pedalled alongside us and had the cheek to complain when we were dragging our feet or going too slow for them.

Good notice Rob.

There may be some people who doubt that boys did run shirtless in cross country like that, not by their own choice but because they were actually told to do it like that, and yes in the wet and cold. That was me each autumn and winter from 1977 until 1981 in school cross country from the age of 12 until 16. Groups of about 60 shirtless guys from your particular year going out running anything from 2 to 5 miles in one go and not a top in sight other than on the teachers with us.

John on 2nd October and the old 1980s cross country film clip.

A few points I noted about it. Did the car in it belong to the PE teacher who drove the course instead of run it like the kids? It was a Y reg so that means it had to be no earlier than Autumn 1982 and the car looked a bit used so maybe mid to late 80s possibly.

I noted the rural setting and how the boys were all running on country roads like that, scattered apart from each other. I think the old health and safety warriors might have a thing or two to say about that nowadays, with schoolkids running on narrow country lanes where fast cars could suddenly be a hazard. There looked to be quite a steep gradient at one point too. I don't think they would be allowed to run like that in such a location on country lanes nowadays. Some were actually running in the middle of the road too.

On the bare chests point that was made. They did mostly start with shirts and most ended up finishing the cross country barechested. This looks to have been the free choice of those boys and not a mandate to do so. What makes it interesting that most of them ended up barechested on this cross country is the time of year and the temperature it looks to have been. This was clearly taking place at some point in very late autumn or during the winter, there were no leaves on the trees and at one point you can see the breath coming from the mouth of one of the boys which suggests it was actually quite a chilly day. Yet they were mostly okay to go the full bare chest by the end.

This rather goes to prove the comments of many on the other Burnley thread who say they ran barechested cross countries in winter in the 1970s and 1980s doesn't it, although for some it wasn't actually a choice unlike what it appears with this short film.

A interesting snapshot John, thanks for posting it.

Nick, showing off for baring your chest with your vest off, you must have had a six pack they were all envious of, yes?

Your comment reminded me of going to a local football game where the player got into trouble by the ref for taking his shirt off to celebrate. He was booked for it.

In response to Nick's comments " as my mother bought a size too big for me trying to save some money. " in order to save money I had to wear my older brothers "hand me down" shorts for P E. These did not fir too well being rather large. But I had to make do until such time the next pair were passed down , by then I had grown quite a bot and they were rather tight.
Also with regards to your comment " Btw, my parents were very happy about the school's minimalist kit for boys as it was very cheap compared to that of my sisters." I would have prefered it if a few years ago when our son attended high school if the PE kit had ben "minimal". We had to purchase (of course from the school shop) Black shorts which had the school logo on. A PE top which had the logo in hi houses colours along with football socks again indicating his house and a rugby shirt (not that he ever played rugby) for out door games again with the school logo on it. Obviously we had this expense several time over the years he was at school as he grew bigger.
If only it had been like my schooldays . A pair of shorts now colour specified and black plimsolls, and any t shirt for outdoors. Much cheaper!

Owen

We were supposed to learn the course, thus walked first

Teachers RUNNING the cross country course, you are joking I assume !!

Nick,
Being told off for taking your top off? Funny concept to me. We were told off when our shorts were too long as they supposedly stopped us from running properly. Happened once to me as my mother bought a size too big for me trying to save some money. Btw, my parents were very happy about the school's minimalist kit for boys as it was very cheap compared to that of my sisters.

You walked 5 miles only to then instantly be told to run the same 5 miles again Andy? What school was this? Why would you not just run the course behind the teacher leading the way in the first place!

John.

I was at school in the 1990s and we did cross country in vests. I remember taking mine off shortly before the finish line once and getting accused of showing off and told to put it back on immediately. We were never allowed to be top free outside.

I think most schools in the 1970's ran cross country - we had 2 PE lessons week, one in the gym, one cross country (plus a games afternoon).

The first games afternoon we were all told to bring plimsolls as well as our "normal" rugby kit. We then all had to walk the course with a teacher, to "learn" the route. in total it was 5 miles - roads, fields, woodlands etc.

On return we were all told that we were to now run the course we had just walked - get changed into rugby shorts, plimsolls, nothing else.

Pretty soon there were 120 boys lined up, all stripped to the waist, all freezing in the cold. When we walked the course we had normal September clothes on (so vest, shirt, pullover, jacket and coat), now all of this had to be removed, and we were ready to do the run - same kit as we always wore for xc - which is all but nothing (only shorts & plimsolls, no socks, no briefs, no vest/shirt). Once a week all conditions.

Quite an intereseting piece of film of 1980ies cross country running. Most boys seem to lose their shirts during the run. In my school in the 80ies it was much more organised and unformed, white shorts and bare chests for every boy for all PE and cross-country.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4NLr34AHPQ

Ivan. Some wear full body wetsuits but others just normal everyday swimwear that covers the basics with just the usual standard swimming coverage. I just go in normal like I would down the proper pool. Even in summer the water is fairly cold but it's just one of those things you like or can tolerate, or not.

James do you wear a wet or dry suit for the wild water swimming?