Clitheroe Royal Grammar School

Alfie, the vast majority of schools don't make students take group showers without trunks. At most schools, showers themselves are optional and even when compulsory the teacher cannot oversee the showers and therefore students hardly ever shower. Teachers cannot force children to take off their trunks while showering as this would indeed be considered child abuse.

And there is a big difference between having a quick shower while not wearing anything (most likely for less than one minute and facing the wall) ng nude in the swimming pool. The latter can lead to diseases spreading and is not something the students or teachers would be comfortable with. I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with it. It's just not appropriate and it's wrong. Nude swimming in schools would be an outrage and rightly so.

I understand Bradley's comments and children & students of all ages need protecting. But everything today is Child Abuse. Even down to applying sun cream to someone else's child.( Although this in itself is a form of protection)

I also agree with Marshall re the comments on shyness and confidence.
For me I attended secondary school 1961 to 1966 in an era when most secondary schools were single sex. We thought nothing of changing for pe and showering in a communal room. Furthermore I was in the Scouts whilst it was still all male. At camp we would be six to a tent again all stripping off for bed and mostly sleeping in sleeping bags with no clothing because it was too hot. This was how it was no privacy. Toilets were latrines behind a hessian screen no individual sections for privacy. Washing was done in the local river mainly as a swimming activity. The leaders wore trunks and although all the boys had taken trunks to camp, the majority seemed to decide not to wear them. Bravado I think and a time when we considered ourselves as men.

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Bradley, it was school policy that made boys swim nude and not the teachers who ran the classes. I can't imagine a teacher making boys swim nude unless it was required by the school.
Group naked showers are still required in some schools today, so I don't see much difference if they also swam nude.
There was the recent case of the Muslim boy who refused to take part in the school's nude shower policy because it was against his religion to show his naked body to others. He was given the choice of either taking part or being expelled.
I did not follow the case, but I think that when his parents took the case to court the school won the case.

Marshall, was this a boys school? And why did they decide to start requiring that trunks be worn? Do you think this practice should be continued or not? Thanks in advance

Interesting discussion here. I vaguely remember having a few swimming lessons in secondary school where we did not wear trunks. The year after it was abolished and we were told to start wearing trunks. So only a few lessons were spent doing it without them. Although I think it was for our own good that it was done nude. It's good to get rid of shyness and this seems to be a huge problem amongst the youth of today. They don't have the same level of confidence.

Terry, it would certainly be illegal and the school would face legal action and the teachers may also face child abuse investigations. They would most likely be banned from teaching children. It is widely considered to be child abuse to make students do swimming lessons without trunks.

What would happen today though if a school tried to bring in a no swimming trunks to be worn policy. Mind you I do not think many schools have swimming lessons in their curriculum. Certainly not high schools.
When I was at secondary school we did going to swimming lessons at the municipal pool where the session was reserved for our class alone. The teacher was employed by the local education committee and he taught for all schools.

Good observation, Peter.
Some have similarly brought the argument of why put on swimming trunks when the boys showered naked together before and after swimming.

To Jamie

If the school policy had been no trunks for swimming, forgetting them would not have been an issue and no question of punishments.

Terry, the situation I described was fairly rare. More often than not if a boy forgot his trunks he did so because he'd brought gym kit by mistake and therefore would end up wearing his PE shorts to swim. I did that myself a couple of times.
I only saw the alternative happen three or four times in all my time at school and yes, boys were given the choice. This may surprise you but I can only remember one boy opting to do the lesson naked! Even though the other option was humiliating and uncomfortable, it was generally seen as preferable to stripping off completely. Which I suppose is strange when you consider that we all had to shower naked after PE anyway!

Jamie your comments re punishment for forgetting trunks sounds severe. It begs the question was it effective or did boys still forget their trunks. If so did the lad have a choice of which of the 2 punishments he could take and if so which did most opt for?

That's a pretty comprehensive check list Mr Wallace - I can safely say I experienced all of those at school except points 2 and 9!
I can also add one of my own... if a boy forgot his swimming trunks and also his PE shorts, he was given a choice. Either he had to swim naked or, wearing just underwear, he had to spend time face down on the stone surface just outside the swimming pool building, practising front crawl. This was in view of the teacher so there was no slacking and the crawl practice was interspersed with rounds of press ups. It was a) cold, b) humiliating to be seen doing the punishment in your underwear, and c) you inevitably ended up with scratches and scrapes on your chest from small pieces of gravel!

Rob, thankfully I never had that same experience with showering. Our modesty was protected.

As for Stephen and Jordan's questions, I'll answer them below.

We did normal PE lessons and football/rugby in our PE kit, which was a PE t shirt and shorts. But for cross country, even though we spent most of Year 7-9 doing it in the same kit, in Year 10 onwards we had a different teacher who said we should do it in shorts only. He said the course was too easy and that we needed to build endurance, and he also used some awful excuse of the possibility of getting mud on our t shirts, which parents apparently complained about.

Obviously no one likes it but no one wanted to seem like a p*ssy either so we all just got on with it. It was defenilty a lot harder because of the cold. At the end of the course, most of us were so tired that we didn't even shower.

Mr.wallace, most of the points you mention were pretty common in those days at school, except where you say
" Having to get changed in the gym to walk naked passed the girls in the corridor to shower".
Can you explain further about this, because I think that putting boys on display naked in front of girls was jumping the limit and pretty uncommon in those days.
Was this a one-off incident or a regular occurrance at your school, and what age were you?

The nightmares of school more than 30 years ago!

1 Having to do school swimming in see through white shorts.

2 Having to get changed in the gym to walk naked passed the girls in the corridor to shower.

3 The bomb bell going off in the changing room so we had to walk outside half naked.

4 Being forced to do pe in the gym topless because you had the wrong white top.

5 Being forced to turn your rugby shirt inside out on the soccer pitch for games.

6 Being forced to shower naked in the walk through shower.

7 No tracksuits for boys during the winter.

8 Having to try yourself with your pe kit if you forgot your towel.

9 Being spanked in white shorts for an offence I did not commit

10 Having your groin forced into the ground while being made to do press ups by the coach!

Bradley, our showers in the late fifties were obviously a lot different to those at your school. We had a row of, I think, about five showers with very large heads standing out overhead from the wall and so a class of thirty boys would have to stand, about six at a time fairly close together under each shower. So which ever way we stood there was certainly no way we could avoid seeing one another naked and we just got used to it.

Bradley, I'm surprised topless cross country is a thing even nowadays? Why did your school do this and what type of school was this? We're people fine with this policy?

Hi Bradley, glad that you feel the same as I do about some of these bizarre practices!
Out of interest how recently were you at school - and what were the reasons given for you to do cross country topless? I left just over 20 years ago and we were never given any kind of explanation...

Jordan, I agree with your point that nude swimming is a horrible idea. I can't even comprehend that this was ever a rule. As someone who left school very recently, something like that would be inconceivable.

I agree that nude showering isn't a problem, it wasn't a problem for me since we all faced the wall when showering and there was the unwritten rule of not looking at each other when in that situation. It makes sense to shower with nothing on; I don't think I know anyone who showers at home with trunks on, so why should the same not apply to schools? It's important to clean everything after going in the pool for hygiene reasons.

I can't imagine how doing a swimming lesson naked would be hygienic. Would be pretty disgusting and humiliating to say the least.

Our cross country lessons were done topless, which was odd since I don't know any other school that did this. The reasons for doing so were questionable to say the least.

Just catching up on the recent posts here and I totally agree with Willy's view - logical and sensible for boys to take nude showers. But nude swimming? To me it seems incredible this form of humiliation was ever commonplace in schools. I just cannot understand why boys would be expected to strip naked for a class, especially with girls looking on.
I'm relieved to say I never experienced nude swimming at school - but topless cross country was another matter. I'm not sure why Rob thinks it promotes discipline and self confidence among boys if they are forced to run around wet, muddy fields in only a pair of shorts. Personally it made me feel resentful and humiliated and, as Willy says, it was totally unnecessary for us to be topless. I felt at the time and still do now that sadistic games teachers just saw it as a means to make us boys feel small.

Rob, although I agree with you on the necessity of nude showers after exercise and swimming, I think that both nude swimming and topless cross country runs were unnecessary and harsh.
Proof of this is that teachers and coaches always wore trunks during these swimming lessons and also wore protective tops during these runs when they accampanied the boys, especially in winter.

Regarding nude swimming it was especially humiliating for the boys when there were other teachers and school staff present, including females. Some mention that they even had to be nude for swimming galas in front of parents and guests and also female teachers.

Stephen,you were at an all boys school as I was and a great many others were.We soon got used to being naked in the open showers without embarrassment.It was indeed very odd that you never showered after PE or swimming because it is essential that you wash away the sweat and chlorine from your body every time.If you had showered you would not have found it embarrassing swimming without trunks.
PE in just shorts, and nothing else in the gym and outside,including cross country,together with nude swimming promotes discipline and helps boys build self confidence for the future.

Stephen, Plainly you did not like swimming without trunks, and yet there is much historical evidence that nude swimming for boys in and out of school was commonplace until, say, the 1920s. The reason is obvious: men went swimming long before trunks were invented. The practice lived on in non-State schools, and in the US nude swimming at the YMCA and in many high schools was the norm until the 1970s. It's very practical because you don't have to bother with wet trunks.

We got used to single sex nudity because of the showers at school. If your school did not have them, that is very odd.

Stephen, I'm not exactly convinced. I've know of people who didn't feel they were abused, who were used to the idea and who didn't feel uncomfortable with swimming without trunks. I feel like you're an exception to the rule. At the end of the day, the government shouldn't be regulating what schools decide. If a PE department thinks swimming with trunks is the way to go, so be it. If not, fine as well.

Gerald, it was an abuse of power because there is no real reason why swimming should be done without trunks. It is impractical since we could all afford trunks. As well as this, it is just not appropriate for a teacher to be able to decide that we should do swimming lessons like fhis. It was just uncomfortable, embarrassing at times and unnecessary

Stephen, why do you consider it an abuse of power when it is not or wasn't against the law at the time? Nude swimming is something that was normal in many schools, not exactly an abuse of power.

Steve, Agree with all that. Worst was if you were the boy the master chose to demonstrate the handstand as you would have the class gathered round to watch, as in the Burnley Grammar photo, although we were always at ground level, hands on mat. This meant that with baggy shorts what was under them was really on display. Since you could not make a fuss you quickly learned composure, and as you say we were all in the showers afterwards so it hardly mattered.

We got so used to never wearing pants for gym or games that in no time we stopped thinking about it. The boys in the Burnley photo on the beam and ropes with their legs up are obviously not bothered.

Just saw Aly's post and I have to agree. I was at a private boys' school in the early eighties and we had to do all our swimming lessons without trunks. Thankfully policy soon ended. No child should have to be subjected to that. It is impractical and an abuse of power by schools. Weirdly enough, we never had showers after PE or swimming.

However, I disagree that doing PE bare chested is in any way an abuse.

Late comment on Willy's posting of 10 March. Our boys only school had corporal punishment (the tawse or belt on the hands) whereas the equivalent girl's school did not.
It was not used a lot in the academic classes, but PE was a different matter, where it was in regular or even frequent use. It was hard, but I believe it really improved the standard of fitness and discipline.

I agree at first holding up another lads legs whilst doing handstands wearing baggy shorts was a bit daunting but after a while you came to realise you just had to get on with it. After all working in pairs you would both be doing the handstand at some time and you would not be seeing anything that you would not see in the changing rooms or showers after the lesson.