Clitheroe Royal Grammar School

I agree with Dominic that teachers today don't/can't exercise discipline over their charges. Kids are even allowed to call teachers by their first names/

Mark and Roy - you are so right about the lack of manners shown these days. I still find myself apologising to the person who is in the wrong occasionally.

Mark - I live in London now and travel on the underground. A couple of times recently school parties have got on and the children have rushed and pushed past adults to get to seats. Once I mentioned to one of the adults with the party how bad-mannered this appeared but they just stared back at me as though I was talking in a foreign language - perhaps I was!

Back to a more relevant point - children never did answer back or disobey an order at school - not unless you wanted to experience the consequences which would have been more unpleasant than anything teachers can dish out these days. Maybe that is part of the problem - teachers can no longer discipline their pupils effectively.

At one time in British society it was quite common to apologise to someone if in fact it was that person who had done wrong.

This is true Terry. I shudder when children don't stand up for elderly people on buses. Its not their fault as they haven't been brought up to do it.
As a child i gave my seat when the bus was full not because I was afraid of my parents punishing me for being rude. I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do.
Have you noticed that no-one says excuse me anymore to get past you? They just stand behind as if you have eyes in the back of your head.
Last week on a train in the first class, a well dressed middle aged chap stood behind s elderly lady as she put her case on the rack. He grew inpatient as she took her time. Finally he pushed past her. He was of an age to know better but couldn't bring himself to say excuse me. When I say it, people look at me as if i am insane.
Its not just children who don't know their manners, but its the majority of society. many those who were brought up "properly" seem to have forgotten the simple things that make life more pleasant.
It is as if that showing you care about others has become a weakness and that many are afraid to show they care for fear of looking weak or different.
We live in the I'm alright Jack era. maybe we always did!

I agree with Rob & Mark especially realizing that actions have consequences. Especially disobedience. But I think we have lost out on the polite society. I sometimes see my son's school friends in the street. They know who I am and I say hello. whereas we as kids would have replied (heaven help us if it got back to our parents that we ignored someone) they totally ignore you as if you never existed. What has happened to manners, or is it that if someone speaks to you, you have a hidden agenda?

Rob, you are correct. When we were told to do something at school we did it or else.
We didn't argue if told to go barefoot or shirtless in PE.
The last thing we wanted was to in trouble or a detention. That would mean our parents finding out and a double punishment. We knew from than an early age that actions have consequences

Terry, referring to your comments about communal showers, not only were they essential after a tough session in the gym in the 50's & 60's but also physiologically when we were in the showers it was an important part of our physical education when we could see how our classmates were developing during the stages of puberty. This helped us to to realise that we were all going through the same experiences of growing up and as a result I certainly had no personal inhibitions about others seeing me naked in the changing rooms and showers.

Unfortunately,most lads nowadays do not have to strip to the waist for pe let alone take showers afterwards and therefore have become very inhibited and afraid to talk about their personal problems.

No problem, Jamie; thanks for your comments.

Rob, I actually did start off with nylon PE shorts like the ones you describe and so did many other boys. But as I got older I wore cotton shorts instead, largely for the reasons you mentioned!
Underpants were permitted for PE but only if you had a spare pair to change into after the lesson. If not then you had to do the lesson with nothing under your shorts (which I guess was probably a lot more hygienic).
Officially our PE kit was the same in the sixth form but, as at your school, things became more relaxed and quite a few boys preferred to do it with their vests off.
Didn't mean to sound bitter about my experiences at school! I just think I would have enjoyed attending a school where boys were not only permitted but required to go barechested. I guess it's just a measure of how times changed.

I agree with Rob. I was at school in the late fifties and early to mid sixties and you did as you were told.
If you were told to strip to the waist and go barefoot-and you were- you stripped to the waist and went barefoot.

Lads are more inhibited these days, not through their faults but because society dictates that they are protected from the eyes of unwelcome strangers who are around and might look at them or take photos of them on their 'phones for their own gratification. Things were different in our childhood, when we were encouraged by our parents from early years each summer to strip to the waist and run around outside in our shorts.Nowadays, any responsible parent does not allow their children out of their sight. I do not agree with youngsters being dressed in long trousers from the day they learn to walk, but that's the fashion today.

In the late 50's & early 60's when you & I at all boys schools we all did as we were told. I remember my first PE lesson when we had been told what to wear and as we went to the changing room we were all talking & some boys were asking us whether we were allowed to wear t-shirts & we said no, just shorts & plimsolls. No more was said as they all got used to being stripped to the waist.At the end of the lesson & back in the changing room, the boys were getting into the communal showers naked.I remember hesitating for a second or two before realising there was no way out for me but to take off my shorts & go in the showers.My embarrassment at the others seeing my penis soon disappeared as saw I was the same as other boys, & my inhibitions about going in the showers had gone for ever.

Terry,Rob, I attended a secondary modern, mixed boys and girls.
We also wore those nylon shorts that you mentioned and these were typically worn without any underwear.
Of course, shorts were a lot shorter then and they were translucent when wet and we had to do long country runs through villages and main roads.
I was very indignant at being made to wear those see throughs and the embarrassment it caused.

Rob

I attended an all boys school 1961 to 1966. PE for us was also shorts no pants or top. We wore white shorts and as you say some boys wore the nylon type and when we played football in the rain (yes those days we still had to go ouitside if it was raining) the white nylon shorts became see through. However, no one seemed to care. We also wore plimsolls and as you say there were no branded trainers and plimsolls were great levellers.

Like you at the end of the lesson it was communal showers all naked of course which was accepted as normal. I am sure these days lads are more inhibited and the thought of communal showers are a no! no!

Times have certainly changed.

Jamie,we each went to an all boys school but I would not have minded if it had been mixed and boys and girls did pe together and boys had to wear just gym shorts. We had two single lessons each week in the gym and one double when we played soccer, or cricket in the summer.We were sent out on a run from time to time in the single lessons, but it sounds as though you went running during a double, which explains why the gym was being used by another class.We wore black or white shorts and mine were black. We were not allowed to wear underpants(what about you?) or socks, and trainers were unheard of in the 50's so were all wore plimsolls.No expensive branded trainers, so it was all very levelling for us.After pe and football communal nude showers were compulsory.in the sixth form we still wore the same kit but it was a lot more relaxed, with smaller classes and we played team games, when we also wore two different coloured sashes,(no shirts against skins).

I hope your white shorts were not like the nylon ones which some boys wore in my class.Because the gym was being used for an exam,we were sent out on a run when it
started to rain and the nylon shorts became almost see through. Fortunately we did not meet anyone outside the school gates & we were soon up in the fields and the sun came out & the nylon material soon dried in the breeze.I think the local people were used to seeing us boys running & wouldn't have raised an eyebrow if they had seen the boys wet nylon shorts,although today there would have been an uproar about it.

You really do sound bitter about your missed oportunity to run stripped to the waist, and not being able to at anytime. Yes, it was very nice when it was dry & the sun shone but really not so comfortable when you got wet and cold. We just ran a bit faster & got back to school & into the warm showers.

You're right Rob, that would have been interesting to find myself barechested in a gym full of girls! Unfortunately that didn't happen as I was at an all boys school. So the class I was sent to join were boys from the year above mine and no, I wasn't the only boy without a vest. The usual PE kit for both the gym and outdoors was vest in school colours, white shorts and socks and trainers. However it was common practice to play 'shirts against skins' in the gym and on that occasion for obvious reasons I was told to join the skins team!
While I was often a skin for PE in the gym, I did want to see how it felt outdoors with the breeze and maybe even some rain on my bare chest and back and it was disappointing to be refused permission. From what you say it sounds like I missed out!

John, I don't think it worried me about getting my first pair of long trousers as I was certainly not the only boy in class still wearing shorts although I probably appreciated the warmth.

I don't recall what happened to my school shorts but don't remember seeing them again. Unfortunately, shorts are not considered childish nowadays, certainly by parents who seem to put their boys into long trousers as soon as they grow out of nappies. It is far healthier to get the sun and air to them.

Jamie, our pe kit was just the norm at that time and we accepted it and got to enjoy it.When our parents were given a list of the school uniform our pe kit included a t-shirt,
but at the beginning of of the first lesson we were told to go to the changing room and take everything off and come back to the gym wearing just shorts and plimsolls. At that time all boys wore sleeveless vests under their shirts all year round, so it felt extra good being stripped to the waist, especially outside. (sorry about that, Jamie!).
When you asked the teacher if you could run in just your shorts & he refused and sent you to a class who were in the gym, were you then the only one without a top as you had 'forgotten' yours, or was everyone barechested? What was your normal kit in the gym? Was the class who were in the gym half of yours who went running while the rest were inside or were they a different class entirely? If it was mixed school, maybe it was the girl's turn to use the gym. That would have been fun for you!

Rob, I do agree we were kept in shorts till we were a lot older in our school days. The change over to long trousers was usually about 13 or 14, although this could also be decided by the boys height, when a boy could be kept in shorts till he was a lot older.
This criteria was considered important and usually boys couldn't wait to get their first pair of long trousers.
Shorts would then be discarded and not be worn again, as they were considered 'childish'.
Like you, my parents didn't take these views and I wore shorts all the time regardless of my age, even after I left school.

Really wish I'd been at school in your day Rob, it sounds like there was a more sensible approach then. I wanted to do cross country with a bare chest when I was at school about 20 years ago but it wasn't allowed. Once I pretended to have forgotten my vest for the lesson and asked the teacher if I could run in just my shorts. But he flatly refused, saying it was too cold - like a vest made so much difference! - and instead made me go inside and join a class who were in the gym. Ridiculous really.

I was kept in grey school shorts until the winter after I
was 14 although it was an all boys school in the late 1950's. From then until I started work when I was nearly
18 my parents told me when I was at home in the summertime to put my shorts on and get the sun and fresh air to my body.So I usually wore just a pair of leisure shorts and always got a nice tan out in the garden. In school pe, we always wore shorts with nothing underneath and bare chests
indoors and outside on the sports field and for cross country running. We all enjoyed this, especially feeling the breeze on our chests. I feel privileged to have been at school at that time and sorry that today's youngsters
have to be so cosseted. However, with my schoolday's experiences, I am more confident and to this day continue to wear shorts whenever I can throughout the summer with or without a shirt.

Simon, I agree, it was the parents' prerogative to keep their children dressed as they so desired, but certainly I considered to be kept in shorts up to my leaving age at school was exceeding the boundaries.

James as I posted previously in response to Laura & John I wore short grey trousers until about the age of 13. They were short and very tight. These were worn all year round. Eventually, when I was considered to have grown tall enough I was allowed longs.
This was in the mid 60's when parents dictated what was worn. I did not have any say in the matter. Parent chose all of your clothes. On the other hand I do not think we were so governed by the latest fashion trends.

Roy, I wore short trousers till my fifth year (year 11).
I was the oldest boy to wear short trousers in my school till I left

When I was at school in the 1950's and 60's the boys wore shorts in primary school and I changed into long trousers after Christmas in my second year at secondary school.(Year 8).

It seems like for years now boys have worn long grey trousers in primary school which means they have to change to shorts for pe. At least in our primary school for PE all we boys had to do was take of our shirts and do PE in our grey shorts and singlet. We never thought it strange that girls had to do PE in their underwear(Regulation Navy blue) and mixed class where was the equality there?

Simon, it was a family tradition to keep boys dressed in shorts through school years and I had to accept it without complaint or criticism.
Like your shorts, mine were ultra-short and to be kept in shorts during the cold winter months was an endurance and took a certain amount of fortitude.

I wish we had been able to wear warm tights (or trousers) when I was at secondary school - my legs used to get really cold cycling to school in the winter!

Laura/John

As posted previously I too had to wear the short shortsup to about the age of 13 which were very uncomfortably tight and I would have thought these days condidered too short to be decent. that was summer AND winter.

Laura,I remember the shorts I used I used to wear for school, although they were not obligatory, my parents decided to keep me in shorts for what seemed to be in perpetuity.
As my sister could wear warm tights in the winter my legs were exposed to the bitter weather and my shorts were trim and made to fit well above the knee.
Some boys wore track suits if the weather was cold, but I had to brave the elements and freeze in shorts more suitable for the summer.

I agree with Laura. Shorts too exposing? Is that why it seems all the young lads these days seem to wear the horrendously long board shorts. they must drag so much when swimming in them.