Clitheroe Royal Grammar School

I was in one of these schools with forced compulsory no shirts PE and spent two or three years inside never wearing one ever at any point. I reckon half the classes hated it, the other half were okay with it and one or two actually delighted in it. I did often wonder what would happen though if the half who hated showing our enforced bare bodies off like that simply refused. Well I got my answer with a new boy who joined our class who kicked up a fuss about it in the changing room before we walked along to the gymnasium. After a stand off about it teacher grabbed his top and made an attempt to forcibly pull it over his head but he struggled to hold onto it and ended up flailing on the floor with the teacher finally getting his top off him as he laid on the floor. He was then sent off crying to the gym with the rest of us, without his shirt. I couldn't believe anyone was that desperate not to do PE in that way that he would get into an actual scuffle as a first impression in front of a teacher. Then I was baffled when at the end of that PE lesson he walked to the shower no problem. Figure that one out.

Chris G, interesting comments. I only experienced PE with enforced toplessness but completely understand why cheaper clothes were bought, I remember my parents saying how pleased they were that I scarcely needed a PE kit. Things were a lot simpler and more practical back then

Dave
Don't forget that this was way back in 1959, before the era of logo-embellished sports kits etc. I was at school in that era and our PE/games kit specification was minimal, white vest or equivalent short-sleeved top, shorts of any colour and plimsolls for gym or outdoor runs. For economy, most of us had the cheapest shorts and footwear that our parents could afford, and until topless PE was introduced at my school, those of us who wore underwear vests to school, the majority back in those days, temporarily repurposed these as PE tops. On the rare occasions when we went out running, we must have looked a bit like the photo above.

Surprised these lads are wearing different tops. Was sometimes vests or more usually barechested for us.

I actually found that fairly amusing Marc for sheer jobsworthness if nothing else. There are people like that in every profession, including mine in the media. The best part was your head getting overheard. What a great way to undermine a teacher's foolishness. I thought my school was bad enough not allowing bright coloured socks when they can hardly be seen under trousers much of the time, but pants! Good grief. There has been so much chat on these pages about boys not being allowed to have their underwear on under their PE shorts but I'm sure even in those schools the teacher would not have got worked up about the style of any boys pants, would they?

If it helps Matthew, middle school generally means about the ages of 7 to 12, and could vary by a year or so within that range. My schooling I'd describe as infants 4 to 8, middle juniors 8 to 12, secondary seniors 12 to 18. Talking UK of course.

Infact I did one or two PE lessons in my pants in infants. It seemed to be the thing sometimes but don't ask me why, I'm sure I never forgot to bring my PE kit to school at that age, my mother would have made well sure of that. In all three schools at the various age ranges I did infact do PE lessons at some point with a bare chest, it just seemed the thing, and at the younger ages I always remember the insistence on not being allowed to have anything on our feet much of the time too. But I never had a teacher who complained about the design of mine or anyone else's pants, and infact I think most of us wore very boring underwear. I finally discovered boxer shorts at the age of 16 and never wore another pair of Y-fronts ever again. Actually I can't really remember anyone wearing boxer shorts or their equivalent in school, it all seemed to be Y-fronts.

Marc, what a ridiculous and inconsiderate way for your teacher to behave. Don't mind my asking: how old were you and your classmates at the time? ("Middle school" can mean different things).

Enjoyed reading your memory there Marc.

The trouble with primary teachers is that they specialise in nothing at all and are meant to be masters of everything in the curriculum, which when you think about it is absurd. The educational equivalent of GP's, general practitioners.

The good thing about secondary school was at least the PE teachers actually all got stuck in with you, wore a PE kit themselves and took part most of the time, no matter what you did.

As there is some naming and shaming of actual teachers on here I'm going to name and shame Miss Middleton from my middle school days forty seven years ago who took us for PE and swimming and had no hesitation about coming into the boys changing room while we sorted ourselves and dressed and undressed. This woman was so unhinged that she took offence at one lad's underpants for being too bright and gaudy with cartoon characters on them and said they were not appropriate to come to school in and promptly went off and brought the head teacher along, a man, into our changing room to adjudicate on whether he thought they were acceptable. They were, and he said so instantly and when he walked back out everyone heard him say to her, 'stop wasting my time' and we burst into fits of laughter.

I remember Miss Middleton because she could be quite physical with us when it suited her and I don't mean in a punishing way, just a bit over familiar. I was unbuttoning my school shirt one time ready for swimming and she came up to me and began pulling the whole thing over my head to save time to get it off before I'd undone half the buttons then patted me like a dog on the belly.

She'd never make an effort to get stuck into any of our lessons, always standing on the sidelines watching and bossing us about. A pair of us in school really wanted to push her fully clothed into the swimming pool for a laugh.

Miss Porter was one of the female PE teachers who'd cover our lessons from time to time and never hesitated to strip lads straight to the waist. She was good looking though but very strict and very demanding.. She never once came into the changing room and waited outside, after the lesson she simply vanished we think it was to the staffroom.

About 1976 was the first time I was told to take my top off in a PE lesson was when I was maybe about 9 years old long before I went up to high school. I remember it because it was a middle aged lady called Mrs Robson who told us to do it and she had never taken our PE lesson before and was a new teacher at school. The girls were with us. Nobody expected it and there were a group of boys pleading to her 'but that's not how we do our lesson normally'. Then another boy began crying over it all and made such a fuss that he was allowed to keep his white under vest on but the rest of us still had to remove everything we were wearing on top. I do remember the girls finding it very funny for a few minutes and being told off and Mrs Robson being very bad tempered during the whole lesson, which on top of leaping about for the first time in my life at school with a completely naked upper torso with other boys at school made it quite an uncomfortable time. Mrs Robson expected us to be outside with no top on when the warm weather came after Easter. She was quite unlikeable and charmless and it was her way or nothing, you could not win her over with anything at all. When I got my next teacher in the follow on year I went back to doing PE the same way I'd done before Mrs Robson came along, with a top on again, either a vest or a T-shirt. That teacher was much nicer too. When I was in that lady's class I saw my previous teacher, Mrs Robson, doing a PE lesson as I walked past looking through the hall window and the class was doing PE the same as I had done, no shirts. She seemed to be the only teacher who did that in school. I suppose it was entirely her own choice and nobody else's as it wasn't a hard and fast school rule that we had to do PE in a particular way. Funny (weird) woman, must have been at least mid 50's at the time, I wonder why she did it. I never thought she liked boys very much, always shouting away at us. Maybe it was her way of trying to gain some extra control in her mind over boys in her class, as she did have issues with class discipline a little bit that I can recall.

Howard, at primary girls wore regulation knickers under their skirts so just wore those in Pe without the skirt. In middle school there were dedicated changing rooms and they got to change into shorts. At upper school again dedicated changing rooms, but had to change into PE gym knickers so maybe felt like going backwards for them.

Going barechests for PE was an everyday thing and never had vests for x-country either. Feminists long stopped lads doing anything that may appear masculine.

James, at our primary school it was actually girls that had an advantage when we changed into our PE kit together in class.
The girls all wore uniform skirts in those days so they just easily put their PE shorts on under their skirt before taking it off.
But we boys had to take our pants off to put the PE shorts on.

Carol earlier raised the subject of boys vs girls and how they perceived PE. Speaking only from my experiences, at primary girls had a worse experience than boys (although probably young enough not to care really), at middle school it was boys who had a worse experience but by the upper school it had evened out a bit but maybe the girls still felt worse about it all and I assumed that was an age thing. Maybe girls were more vocal at what they didn't like about PE where as boys didn't really mention it.no matter what they thought?

Carol earlier raised the subject of boys vs girls and how they perceived PE. Speaking only from my experiences, at primary girls had a worse experience than boys (although probably young enough not to care really), at middle school it was boys who had a worse experience but by the upper school it had evened out a bit but maybe the girls still felt worse about it all and I assumed that was an age thing. Maybe girls were more vocal at what they didn't like about PE where as boys didn't really mention it.no matter what they thought?

"I attended a mixed secondary school from 9 through to 17"

The poster is probably including middle school with secondary school.
In any case from 9 to 17 is 8 years and no secondary school lasted that long.
There were however some repeaters who had to repeat the same class before moving on to the next form and so left school at a later age.

"I attended a mixed secondary school from 9 through to 17"


This is total nonsense and I don't know why the person has said it.

Hi John and Claire, my apologies! We attended middle schoo from 9-13 then high school 13-17 or 18 if you were doing A levels.
It was always referred as secondary education by the teachers though. Hope this helps.

Most open evenings at school were supposed to be just the parents without the pupils but I went to one at my secondary approximately late 1978 where I was invited along with both my parents, everyone was, and all our teachers were milling about waiting to speak to everyone around the hall and one of the things I noticed was that a couple of my teachers seemed to have undergone a complete personality transplant while talking with my parents and came across as nothing like they did in class. One was a geography teacher who seemed to laugh a lot, he barely smiled in class, and the other was one of our PE teachers. Indeed the PE teacher tried to make me seem like one of his favourite pupils in class to my parents who seemed pretty pleased with what he said to them, however I wasn't one of his favourites and far from it and he was probably pulling the same stunt with everyone. Completely dishonest and I soon set my parents straight even before we arrived back home. Most of the teachers were no different of course and one music teacher was so clueless my dad asked me if he even knew who I was because he was so vague and unknowing about me to the extent dad asked if I actually ever showed up at any of his classes. I did, all of them!

Absolutely John.

Me, started at my comprehensive on 6th September 1972 (midweek start date - a Wednesday from memory) and that same month just 20 days later it was my 13th birthday.

For those old enough at the time and in school they may well remember it was the year when during the summer holidays School's Out by rocker Alice Cooper was appropriately sitting at number one in the charts.

It's easy to have rose tinted glasses about school days and I'm no different but when I think a bit deeper with many of the things they kind of fade just a bit. I had some great teachers in the academic subjects but some bloody dreadful games ones who must have thought we were underage national service conscripts or something to be constantly insulted, chided or mocked and in a few cases actually assaulted openly. Like others here have stated already, shirts were always coming randomly off our backs in games and showers were compulsory, in my case we always got shepherded into the shower area like a herd of sheep.

My parents went to an open evening one night and came back talking of who they'd met, including that very lovely mister so and so. They'd been speaking to one of my games teachers considered the biggest b*****d of the lot of them. I couldn't believe it, thought they must have made a mistake until back in school the next day someone else said his parents had said the very same thing. Our parents should have sat in on one of his lessons instead.

You cannot start secondary school at any age less than 11 in the UK, simple fact. Anyone reaching their 11th birthday on or before 31st August could start school the next day on September 1st, no sooner.

Infact many people in some parts of the country used to start at the age of 12, or could even have been 13 if they had a birthday in early September as the oldest.

I started secondary at age 12 and a half. The August borns I knew had just had their 12th birthdays when we began secondary, but a couple of the September borns, the oldest in class, had their 13th birthdays right at the start of the school year in the week they began at secondary, one before he even had his first day infact, being born on 2nd September and starting on 3rd.

Like Claire says, I'll ask too, please explain your curious comment. You did not start at secomdary school aged 9. Nobody does, or even close to that age. That's only half way through primary level.

Maybe something is getting lost in translation here but you seemed clear enough how you described it. I look forward to your explanation James.

James - even if you were 9 in September when the start of the new school year came round, you were still two years younger than normal for starting secondary school in the UK. Or did you mean middle school, or are you somewhere else in the world altogether.

In reply to Mick I do not think that was any to quote him" Whether there was any actual method to this way of doing things, maybe trying to foster a good body image about oneself and others is difficult to tell." any ulterior motive it was just as it was those days. In our junior school for pe boys removed their shirts and all boys wore singlets and normal grey uniform shorts and we did pe in those whilst the girls who of course those days wore either dresses or skirts ( girls did not wear trousers) removed their blouses and skirts and did pe in their underwear and these were mixed lessons. As I say it was just as it was. I suppose because the boys already had shorts on there was no need to remove them. again in that era 1958 to 1961 boys did not wear long trousers. It was shorts all year round.

Picking up what Ralph has said, at my first school in infants at the very beginning of the 1970s the whole class changed together and left our clothes at our tables and walked to the school hall together with our teacher and at the age of 6 for a long period of time, at least one whole school year, possibly longer, both the boys and the girls did our PE lesson fully topless alongside each other with completely bare chests. Not that there was much difference between the boys and girls at that age anyway, we seemed much the same I'm sure. Our dress was just some shorts although much of the time we seemed to go out to the hall for PE in our underwear only and I did PE in my pants, flimsy y-front types like every boy wore back then and that's how class did so many lessons, boys in y-fronts, girls in their knickers and nothing else at all. No fuss that I remember, we just got out there and began junping about to music or climbing up on frames pulled from the walls. Far too young to think too much about it or care I suppose. Whether there was any actual method to this way of doing things, maybe trying to foster a good body image about oneself and others is difficult to tell. I'm now married to one of the girls I used to do PE with like that at the time.

Hi Jim, no not special at all. My birthday is in May so I was absolutely 9 when September came around and the start of the school year.

Hi Carol, I am surprised that some of you girls wanted to do PE bare chested like boys in secondary school.
The reason is obvious why teenage girls did not do PE bare chested because girls that age have to wear a bra or sports bra to do PE bare chested, not just for modesty but more so for the support it offers.
If you were talking about primary or middle schools before teen age I could understand. In fact there were many primary schools that had both boys and girls do PE bare chested.
At our primary school till age 11 both boys and girls wore the same PE kit, white t-shirt and white shorts.

Secondary school at age 9. What, were you so bright you got fast tracked through the system by at least two years or something?

Hello Carol, interesting perspective!
I attended a mixed secondary school from 9 through to 17 and girls would see boys from all year groups barechested either in the gym which had reinforced glass running the length of the gym and was one of the main corridors or outdoors onto the yard and field.

My elder sisters told me what to expect before I started but my parents had made me start boxing lessons a few months before turning 9 (in case I was bullied) and by the time I started secondary school I'd already fought twice without a wearing a vest in front of a small audience.

At school, gym always performed barechested. We were pushed hard to to sweat as quickly as possible and most of us did. Basketball and fitness were the norm and we were always reminded "if we weren't sweating up we weren't working properly"

Outdoors we either did cross country, or football. A coin toss determined which team would strip to the waist while the others kept their vests. In the case of football we played with one team wearing rugby tops while the other team were expected to run to the nearest sideline and quickly go barechested.

I was lucky to be good at PE and with a couple of other lads in the class was picked to strip off pretty much the vast majority of the time.
I do remember some of my friends having reservations about being stripped off outside particularly during winter which was fair enough and had a good moan but fully accepted if you were told to bare your chest you did so quickly and without fuss regardless of the conditions. There was banter with the girls and I remember a girl I was keen to impress telling me she hoped I'd be picked to strip off for PE that morning, I can't remember what I said but hoped she'd see me go bare for the umpteenth time. It wasn't nasty, back then it was quite normal.

Hello boys, I went to an all girls private school in Bedfordshire back in the 1970's so reading about experiences from other types of places is fascinating. Looking in on here I would never have guessed at some of the issues that crop up. Why is it such a major deal for some about this no tops rule that many of you had in your PE lessons and what did it actually feel like doing things like that. From my point of view I would say you should value that extra freedom you've had that the other half of us were and are denied. I've heard it said many times that teenage boys are generally more sensitive than teenage girls during that age period so perhaps this is just one obvious manifestation of that rule. I would have loved to have shared my school alongside boys as well as just girls, not a fan of deliberate segregation and I will admit I would have loved to have shared a PE lesson with some boys not wearing top with the fully bared chest, it would have been an education in itself and a nice thing to experience, but many of you on here seem to have only done so amongst other boys anyway which makes me wonder why so many have the problem. I was always under the impression that boys amongst themselves loved taking their clothes off with each other and mucking about like that given half a chance like in the old days of secret skinny dipping in a secluded river bank or something.

The only time I saw the top half of other girls was when we showered. Girls showering was always thought of as worse than for boys. My perception of that was it was not a comfortable thing for a large group of girls to be made to do with each other and very few of us enjoyed having to do so, whereas with boys I've always perceived it as the most natural thing in the world and that they would always feel at ease doing so even in large groups naked together, to the point of actually enjoying doing so and wanting to do it given half a chance.

Reading some of the content on here this weekend has challenged some of my previous thoughts. I'd welcome any input to my comments here.

Our PE teachers always made at least half the class to take their PE vests off and exercise barechested outside so doing it for detention wasn't too big a deal. Most were only bothered about how cold it was.