Burnley Grammar School

I thinking I recall seeing Mr. Parry's obituary on the internet some time back. Seemed to have led an interesting life after teaching.... judge, freemason, etc.

To Michael

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/1298394.tributes-pe-teacher/

It's sobering to reflect that even the youngest boy in the picture, (presumed aged 11 in 1959) will now be over seventy years old. As for their teacher, Mr. R. Parry, who knows?

Thanks Danny, re-reading his original post, he says that his daughter is at a school on the south cost, but the uniform policy is from a school in Doncaster!

Max, Andrea,

I don't think Mr.Dando was referring to anything about himself. He usually just copies from other sites, mainly schools, and posts them here, usually about PE kits.

When it comes to swimming trunks vs shorts, I think any serious swimmer at school wore trunks. I left school five years ago (boys only) and all of us wore swimming trunks or swimming shorts, no speedos. The competitive swimmers always wore trunks, which have less air resistance which matters a lot when it comes to swimming times. But there was no real rule on what you had to wear.

“Mr Dando” what happened to your daughter is absolutely appalling, now I’m not sure which country you live in but here in Australia if a teacher did such a thing they could expect to be immediately fired, have their working with children’s license revoked and possibly face criminal charges. The court system would most likely see the situation as a case of pedophilia, and the teacher would have an absolute crap storm ahead of them. I know that sounds like some blown up story but it is 100% true, we have extremely strict laws here regarding how teachers can treat students and that would absolutely not be tolerated. I don’t believe you should listen to another person who commented saying that for the sake of your daughter you should not raise the issue as that simply teaches your daughter that this kind of thing is acceptable, which it is not. And for all those saying that school was better back then without all the “progressiveness” well you are just down right stupid, the fact that boys are not forced to shower naked or swim naked is a good thing, give kids the choice to do what they want.

Danny,
When my son was at High School, they didn't shower after PE, mainly due to lack of time until the next lesson, but I wouldn't have had a problem with it if the school had made them shower.

With regard to the girls being asked to wear something to keep their chests covered if their shirts were coming untucked, the consensus seemed to be that the teacher had overstepped the mark. I merely referred to it as a contrast to what had happened to Mr Dando's daughter.

To Claire and Andrea,

Claire, I don't know if you meant that or just said it with tongue in cheek. :)
It is also considered as "inappropriate" by today's "progressives" for kids to take showers after PE, lest they see each other naked.
Or to do PE in shorts but must wear long tracksuit pants for PE, lest someone see their bare legs.
Or even worse, as Andrea mentioned, for 6 or 8 year old girls to do PE topless.

Unfortunately these lunatic "progressives" have overtaken our education system, not to mention our political system.

Absolutely inappropriate. The LEA would blow a gasket.

It certainly sounds inappropriate for girls of that age to be doing PE topless especially, as Fiona refers to, some may be starting to 'develop' by then.

By way of contrast, there was controversy earlier this year when a mum objected to a teacher telling her (flat chested) 9 year old daughter and some of her friends that they should wear crop tops or 'sports bras' under their PE shirts to preserve their modesty when their shirts were coming untucked and falling down when they were doing handstands.

"Mr Dando" - I would have thought the situation you describe would not be completely unknown these days though not as common as it used to be. It was, of course, standard practice for children to do p.e. in their underwear fifty years or so ago. I imagine that, at that age, the girls looked much the same as the boys without tops on - if any had started to develop then, no doubt, they would have been wearing something appropriate.
I fear you could cause problems for your daughter if you complain about something as trivial as this.

"And knickers only for those girls who didn't have vests available, which I guess might well be most of them, would be even more APPROPRIATE"

Of course, what I meant to write was "INAPPROPRIATE".

Sandra, was this a girls only school and did the boys also have to do PE in just underpants together with the girls or separate?

Mr Dando
I would say that even in the circumstances that you have described, continuing the class in vest and knickers would be ibappropruate these days. And knickers only for those girls who didn't have vests available, which I guess might well be most of them, would be even more appropriate. Did any of them have bras? And what did the girls think of it?

I am a parent, rather than a teacher, but am keen to get professionals' opinions.

My daughter is 10 and attends an mixed school on the south coast.

This week her class were doing games on the school field, in their PE kit of t shirt, shorts, socks and plimsolls. It started raining but the lesson continued. Eventually, the teacher decided it was raining too hard to continue and moved the class to the gym for the rest of the lesson. There, she said that all the pupils had to take off their wet kit and do the lesson (gymnastics) in their vest and knickers and bare feet. She did let them go and get their vests, but my daughter, along with many others, doesn't wear a vest to school. So she had to do the lesson in just her pants. Do any of you here think this is appropriate? I was appalled when my daughter told me, and am seriously considering approaching the school over this. Your reactions are welcome.

http://hawthorn.doncaster.sch.uk/parent-information/uniform/

P.E. Kit
We expect all children to change for PE, this is for hygiene as well as health and safety of the pupils. All P.E kit needs to be brought into school on Monday (am) and taken home Friday (p.m).

Pupils need a labelled bag for their kit (not a plastic carier bag) containing:

Plain black shorts
White T shirt or polo shirt
Black Pumps
Track suit top and bottoms for some outdoor activities
If you wish, children in Reception, Years 1 and 2 may wear their vest and pants for their indoor P.E. sessions but outdoor kits must be also provided as well as a pair of pumps. If your child forgets to bring P.E kit they will be allocated any spare P.E kit in school.

Please make sure all kit is marked with your child’s name and class.

Primary school for me and PE was done in knickers only with barefeet it was cheap easy and practical. When I moved upto middle school then we all upgraded and dis PE in gym knickers and a vest with bare feet and if you forgot your knickers then you did the lesson nude which surprisingly happened almost every lesson.

I think the video is more likely a gymnastic show by the boys in front of spectators.
I don't think that normal PE at any school was ever that acrobatic.

Dave Hi,
Thanks for that. I didn't know you could access videos that way.
Cheers

Hi David G!

Click on the envelope icon above his post and you can look at the video.

Hi Simeon,

Can you provide a link to have a look at the video. When I read your post there wasn't a link.
Thanks David

Hi Simeon!

Were the shirtless PE rule for boys the norm even in the 1980's or was it a rarity by then? How did you feel being shirtless in front of the girls and many parents.Were there any boy who said anyting about the PE kit or was it ever a a talking point among lads?Were your lessons seperated or mixed? How old were you at the time the display was held?
What was the PE kit for outside?

James, Danny. I too experienced nude swimming at prep school aged 9-13 and can say that i didnt find it humiliating at all. Though talking with a friend from back then he described it as embarrassing not at the beginning when we were just a bunch of little boys but from aged 11 1/2 when he started puberty as one of the first in the class so stood out. By the end of the prep school most boys were going through puberty so he was not alone. I was a late starter so whilst i wouldnt use the word humiliating or embarrassing i would probably say i was more self conscious of the difference. Overall i loved nude swimming and still do today where possible, abroad usually in places such as Scandinavia and germany where nudity doesnt carry the stigma it does in the UK.

Danny,I agree it was an an unnecessary harsh treatment and you were fortunate that you didn't experience it at your school.
Although we were both subjected to corporal punishment,may I ask how and why it was administered?
Yes,I am the same James that had nude swimming and it was humiliating,but after a while I became accustomed to it as we were not allowed to wear swimming trunks.
Did you enjoy wearing short trousers or would you have preferred to wear long trousers?

We were sent out on cross country runs whatever the weather, wearing only our standard indoor gym shorts, t-shirts, ankle socks and plimsolls (all plain white) to defend us from whatever mother nature threw at us.

Some days it was perishing cold, and the only way to counter it was to run quickly and get warmed up that way. If it rained whilst we were out (North of England - so this was often), we were soaked as well as exhausted by the time we returned to school.

It was especially galling to learn that the PE teacher had remained in school the whole time, with his feet up, reading his daily newspaper and drinking steaming hot tea or coffee.

James, we both seem to agree on this harsh treatment of boys at school.
The only difference is that you experienced it while I did not, except for the routine corporal punishment.
Are you the same James that once said on this forum that they also had to do swimming at school in the nude?
This was another humiliating treatment of boys, although one could argue that they got used to it and even enjoyed it, but certainly not for all.

Danny, My school had a mandatory stripped to the waist policy for all PE/Games for all boys age 9 to 18. We were told all outdoor PE/Games lessons were there to make us toughen up. Being stripped to the waist outside was hard, X country runs were tough but had to done or you'd be taken out of class to do laps of the field the next day. I didn't mind running stripped down though some of my friends had mixed views about it and personally, I found being stripped to exercise both indoors and outdoors was a good thing. Indoors I would normally start to show sweat around 20 mins into the lesson which gives an idea how hard we were made to work while being stripped outside it just felt good to escape the stuffiness indoors. Both were a great way to show the girls your physique naturally.

Danny,I don't see how anyone could"enjoy running and stripped and half naked across country in cold and freezing
and half naked across country in cold and freezing weather".
There is nothing manly about wearing just brief shorts and being subjected to to the torment of running in cold weather.I remember wearing just a thin pair of shorts while I held the finishing tape with another boy and our shorts offered very little protection from the cold.
As you say teachers who supervised us were dressed accordingly to the weather and wore overcoats,hats and gloves,while we simply wore shorts.
I agree that parents never complained about the use of corporal punishment and particularly my mother adored to see me wearing shorts and kept me in shorts for school and home.

Danny,
Many schools did make lads run in shorts and trainers, you might not have come across the practice but it certainly existed in many parts of the UK. I do not condone children being made to run barefoot as they could injure their feet. Being made to run shirtless did seem harsh at first but most lads soon got used to it. Back in the 60s, 70s and 1980s attitudes to the way that lads were educated were very different. My father did not have a problem with the PE kit rules which applied to me as he was treated just the same and had also been in the Army and made to swim naked in cold water in winter as part of his training.

John, doing indoor PE shirtless is one thing, but running shirtless and half naked outside on cross country on a freezing winter day is totally different and unimaginable to me.
I am surprised that some posters who claim that they did this enjoyed it or didn't bother them.

About the poster who said that his father told him that he must run outside topless no matter the weather to make him become a man is amusing to me because the same PE teachers who made the boys do this and were supposed to be an example of this 'manhood' were all wrapped up during these country runs in cold or freezing weather.

In any case I never saw anyone, boy or man, running bare chested in freezing weather, or barefoot across mud and rough ground, not even the toughest athletes do this, let alone forcing young boys to do this.

About comments that parents never complained to the schools what their boys were made to wear or not is very true.
This was also the era when corporal punishment was the norm in most schools at any age and I don't remember or knew of any parents who complained about it, including mine.
Schools and teachers were held in great respect in those days and few questioned them, which is far from the mentality of today.

I suppose there is going to be someone who says that they enjoyed getting physically punished at school, like they enjoyed running stripped and half naked across country in cold and freezing wheather. :)