Burnley Grammar School

Frank's posting seems to be the perfect solution to every boy being stripped to the waist and avoiding the problems of identification already discussed for team games

Frank C,
At some senior schools the boys PE kit was black shorts, white shorts and pumps. Lads had to take a pair of white and a pair of black shorts to each gym class, the PE teacher would be at the changing room and divide the lads up so that half would wear black shorts and the others white. Lads were always stripped to the waist for gym class and indoor basketball and other team games. It was far healthier exercising shirtless and shy lads became more confident. There’s no need to wear shirts for indoor PE

Matt and John,quite a while ago this was argued out.The bibs are awkward and slip with movement and can induce extra moisture on the back and chest!Armbands similarly aren't great.Remedy make one team skin and the others vests,it tends to pan out better and all the students know that they will be picked for one or the other

John,
I see your logic about every boy being a skin every time in that nobody could have felt singled out, that's true. If the PE kit was exactly the same for everyone, then I think we'd all have got used to it.
But surely by your argument we could just as easily have kept our vests on and still used bibs or armbands to distinguish teams in the gym? Why did any of us - whether some boys or all - actually need to strip to the waist for PE?

Matt,
Interesting to read about your experience of PE in the 1990s, would you have minded if your school had adopted a stripped to the waist rule for boys indoor PE?. Lads could have worn a bib or a coloured armband to distinguish teams. If all lads had been skins all the time they would not have had the anxiety about being chosen for the skins team and PE teachers wouldn’t have been able to pick on lads that they thought were ‘soft’

Rob. Sorry, missed your post of Aug 27th. Yes, for my first two years in secondary school we wore vests for PE. Some of us had the specified, but never enforced, T-shirt type top, but by and large, those of us who wore underwear vests on a daily basis (and that was most of us back then) didn't bother to change - so, yes, we were a bit sticky and whiffy by the end of the session, but we survived. Things were obviously better once we started going topless,and got more ventilation. Probably not unusually for those days, there were no showers available, but there probably wouldn't have been enough time for us all to get through, even if there had been any. Although there was no official no-pants ruling, a lot of us did remove our underpants, especially when toplessness caame in, but by the the time I left that particular school, there were even a few jock-straps to be seen in the changing room.

Simon - we did vests vs skins in my PE lessons too (also 1990s) and one of my friends got picked to be a skin virtually every time. At first I think he felt a bit embarrassed about taking his top off and maybe that was evident to the teacher, who was a bit of a hard nut and presumably thought my friend was too soft. Whatever the reason, he stayed a skin most of the year and eventually seemed to be fine with it.

Simon E, we were always stripped to the waist for all indoor PE and outdoor cross country running. Your school could have made all lads shirtless for all indoor PE and you could have worn a coloured bib or armbands to distinguish teams. It would have been much fairer and healthier for all lads to be stripped to the waist, who wants to wear a hot sticky vest?

Wow. So many comments about something so commonplace. I left school in the late 90's and our school did vests vs skins for indoors PE and it wasn't unusual to see vests sticking to backs. I know the teams were random but for around 98% of lessons I found myself as a skin. Did anybody think they were singled out too.

Hi Frank and Jeremy an interesting spin on playing games shirtless!Back in the early nineties a group of lads at the engineering works organised a weekend social activity.It was a paintball challenge with two teams battling it out in woods in Derbyshire.Most of us had old coats and well worn jeans it was Spring,April and a bit showery and chilly.We thought it would be a good idea to make the teams more distinguishable as in the woods we mistook who was on which side etc.One of our team took of his coat and t-shirt and indicated that I and the others should do the same this added an extra element of fun,the other team came at us fast and furious we went back home sore and pitted but it was very refreshing and livened things up! We had another round a few weeks later!

Hi frank, yes we used to play air soft shirtless during hot days, when temperatures were to high to wear anything on our chests. Generally we didn’t have strict rules, in fact the winner was the guy who was able to resist more. However, even when we wore protections on our chests, we used to add a punishment for members who didn’t declare they have been hit. They had to take off their protections and shirts so that they had to be bare chested. At that point three of us shoot on his bare chest around 30 shot. After this you had to finish playing as you were, shirtless! Sometimes happens that people didn’t declare and it is a problem because you don’t realise when you win. One time it happened to me and i was very scared not for the 30 shot (which were a bit painful) but for the fact they all had protections a part from me, so they didn’t care to shoot hundreds of shot with automatic arms because of protections... except from me ahahah at the end I was destroyed but the next day I was ready for another battle!

Alfie, I agree that I would have hated having to run barefoot, frankly that wasn’t even safe for those lads to be made to do that. Running shirtless was always great though. After spending hours at a desk in a hot and stuffy classroom in winter, to be able to strip to the waist and put on a pair of shorts and trainers and go running outdoors was a truly liberating experience. It never did me any harm, we quickly got warm and worked up a sweat.

Hi, i was reading Eric’s message regarding air soft..I want to talk about mine of my experiences.. one time I was playing football and my shirt ended up in shreds so I was obliged to play shirtless. The problem was one of my friend who wanted to play paintball, everyone had a shirt a part from me, but I was forced to play. Yes it was very painful but, at least, I didn’t dirty my shirt haha. Have you ever tried airsoft/paintball barechested?

Some fun running bare chested and bare feet in freezing cold, snow and rain while the coaches wore woollen jerseys, woollen socks and shoes.

Give us a break, guys.

I suppose you also look back nostalgically at getting the cane at school.

Bernard, thanks for your comments. At least your PT teacher contemplated no sending you outside in the snow. Ours just carried on with the timetabled activity regardless of weather. Even if that meant our bare feet were ankle deep in snow. Like you say it was often a relief and once you got going was quite enjoyable in a funny sort of way. The biting cold seemed to encourage you to run harder.

Thanks John, you're a man after my own heart. Lads today don't know what they're missing.

James, Yes, we were bare chested all year but weren't sent out for a cross country run very often in winter.As for when it snowed,and down here in the softy south that wasn't very often, I can only recall a couple of occasions and they were sunny days, when we had to run around the school playing fields through the snow, rather than through the usual woodland and out onto the hills. I remember it felt very invigorating running through the snow wearing just PE shorts and plimsolls.Sometimes, in summer, we had to run in the rain which was quite miserable and we were glad to get back in the changing rooms and enjoy a warm shower. Whatever the season, it did us no harm being stripped to the waist and I am glad that we had that experience while we were at school.

Rory - We used to do everything like you - in just a pair of shorts. i think most of us really enjoyed cross country dressed in our minimal kit, even in the winter. Our school always seemed to be overheated in the winter and it was a relief to strip off and get outside though we had to keep moving to avoid getting too cold.
The first time we did cross country with snow on the ground the teacher was a bit dubious and said we could go to the library. That meant we would have to sit in silence and we didn't have our homework with us so we couldn't do anything useful. We all chose ro run and no-one came to any harm from being out in the snow barefoot and stripped to the waist.

Rob, I agree with you totally, cross country running stripped to the waist was always a great experience. The sheer freedom of being barechested and feeling the cool air on your skin was really exhilarating. I felt grateful that we were allowed to run without tops.

Hi rob, were you bare chested also in winter or with rain/cold/snow?

My parents moved to a new county left little time to get ready for school. When changed for our first PE/Games lesson my vest was red, not white. This delighted our teacher who jumped on it hauling me out in front of the class shouting "vest off now!" Our classes were either done in skins or teams of vests vs skins. I would strip to the waist for 9 more years after.

James - just to clarify, after a topless PE class, we always put our shirts back on, just like we used to. The only difference was that weren't wearing vests under them any more.

Chris G, I was at an all boys Grammar school in the late 1950s and remember when we all wore vests under our shirts. In noting that for the first two years you kept your vest on when you did PE, it must have got sweaty during the lesson and felt uncomfortable afterwards when you got dressed again. From the start of our first year we were told by our PE master to take everything off, including our socks and underpants and to wear just a pair of shorts with nothing on underneath and plimsolls. This was our PE kit for the duration at the school, even as sixth formers. Sometimes we would get changed and then be sent out on a run when the freedom and comfort of being stripped to the waist was even more enjoyable.

You said that at the start of the third year you were initially all a bit wary at being topless, suggesting, unusually for the late fifties, that unlike most of us at that time you did not have to go naked into the open communal showers after every PE and games lesson. That was an experience that I and no doubt virtually of us met with total apprehension and anticipation for the first couple of weeks after which time none of thought anything more about it.

Chris, did you were bare chested after PE even if you had normal lesson in class, or did you go back home shirtless?

Just like so many others I spent my time in secondary school doing PE wearing nothing but a pair of white shorts. Always bare chest, no underwear and barefoot. Whether we were inside or outside.

I remember the bully of a pe teacher that thought nothing of sending 30 odd shirtless and barefoot boys out for a cross country run in the snow and frost.

My experience, at secondary school back in the late 1950s, was rather similar to John's.

For the first two years, PE uniform was black shorts and white top. Since virtually all kids wore underwear vests (remember those?) in those days, few of us bothered with a dedicted PE top, so we just took off our school ties, shirts and trousers, put on our shorts, and there we were, all kitted out. At the start of my third year, our PE master announced that from now on, PE would be topless, an announcement greeted with mixed apprehension and anticipation by virtually all of us, and with irritation by those parents who had splashed out on the recommended uniform PE shirt.

For the first couple of classes, we were all a bit wary of the unfamiliar freedom of toplessness, but within a couple of weeks, as John discovered, comfort and practicality prevailed, and none of us thought anything more about it. An unintended consequence, for me and for virtually alll of my mates, was that instead of going to school wearing our vests, taking them off for PE and putting them on again afterwards, it soon became fashionable not to put them back on afterwards, and we all generally went vest-less for the remainder of the day. Inevitably, it was then just a short step not to bother with a vest at all on PE days, and a further short step to not wearing one at all (much to Mum's initial concern that I would catch cold before the winter was oujt!).

My Ex said that they were expected to do indoor PE bare chested, but they wore shirts for outdoor sports.

Craig, until the age of 9 I’d done PE in my school shorts and vest. In the 1960/70s most lads wore vests underneath their school shirts, some of my school friends didn’t have central heating at home. Halfway through Junior School the policy on boys PE clothing changed. We always got undressed in the classroom along with the girls, our teacher used to say “get undressed for PE”. One day out of the blue our teacher said “get undressed for PE and boys you must strip to the waist” ; we were not familiar with the term ‘strip’ and lads looked at each other puzzled. Then a tall and brainy lad took his vest off, then the penny dropped and the rest of us took our vests off. Unsurprisingly some of the girls made fun of us because they could see that we felt self conscious.

At first I felt almost naked wearing only shorts and pumps and thought that it was unfair the way that it had been introduced. Our parents should have had a letter to explain the reasoning behind the new policy and they could
have explained it to us. I felt very self conscious for probably two PE lessons but by the third I found myself thinking about cartwheels, forward rolls and other gymnastic movements and was totally unaware of being barechested. We were worked hard in the gym and made to work up a sweat, I quickly realised that I remained cooler without a vest.

If the school had decided to revert to the former policy of making lads wear vests for PE I would have complained to my parents to try and ensure that I could be exempt from, wearing a vest or t shirt. On reflection shirtless is the healthiest and most sensible PE kit rule for lads for indoor PE, it would have been better if that policy had been enforced in the infant school. It was only because we’d been made to wear vests until age 9 that we felt self conscious when we were told that from now on we had to do PE stripped to the waist. There is no reason in my opinion why lads should not be shirtless for indoor PE.

John,apologies I misread your reply. You I respect lads for stripping to the waist to exercise. It shows discipline in a physical environment. Sadly we live in a culture that stops boys becoming young men and accepting who they are.

Stacey, though our kit included a vest after just a couple of minutes into the very first PE lesson we were told to strip down. I'm sure your brothers experienced something similar. John, what was your experience the first time you stripped off for PE.