Burnley Grammar School

jamesB, were there any other instruments used in Scottish schools, like the cane, slipper or ruler?
Or was it just the tawse?

Was the tawse also used in Scottish homes, or just in schools?

The strap on the hands seems to have been popular in Catholic schools, notably in Ireland. I presume the tawse, being a two tongued strap, was more painful.

I saw a BBC short documentary once in which was stated that the tawse was the casue of corporal punishment being banned in all of Britain.
A Scottish mother took the case to the European Court after her son was tawsed at school. The European Court forced the British Parliament to vote against all corporal punishment in schools.
I think Britain was the last European country to ban CP in schools, but I am not sure of this.

Howard

The tawse was always given on the hands- never on the bottom.

I doubt if there was any maximum officially written down . Depending on the severity of the offence the number of strokes given was 2,4 or 6. In my experience , 4 seemed a popular choice amongst teachers but not all teachers would give the same. I have seen boys get more than 6 but this was because they had been adjudged as having moved their hand. If a teacher decided a boy had moved his hand and even if the tawse had hit him, he was given that stroke again and an extra one for moving.

JamesB

Rachael, I never had shirtless pe lessons but we did have swimming lessons which were obviously done shirtless. I personally didn’t see many people with chest hair, I think people tend to either trim it or not have much of it. I personally don’t have much hair on my chest and never really cared about it.

I never really felt embarrassed about anything during lessons. It was just galas that were a bit awkward but even then i just got over it

I agree with David G's comments re Josh. If that really happened it would be a classic case of child abuse.

In the late 50's when all boys wore vests under their school shirts we had to strip off for PE from the age of 11 until we left at 18 and wear just shorts and plimsolls, indoors, and outside for athletics and cross country through the local woodland and open countryside. No-one was concerned about whether you had a hairy chest or not and we always had to shower after every lesson and there was no privacy at all there! we all had to get used to it and become men together.

Rachael,  this was something that really worried me when I began to develop hair on my chest at age 15. We still had compulsory PE for another year and usual practice for boys' classes at my school was vests vs skins, with the teacher deciding which of us had to strip down. So I knew at some point I would have to be in skins and I felt nervous about being the only lad in the class with chest hair.
To my relief, when our first PE lesson of the term came around, I could see another boy had a patch of hair visibly poking out above his vest (more than I did, in fact) and that gave me encouragement, to know I wouldn't be the only one whose body looked a bit different. As it happened I kept my vest on for that first lesson while the other lad was a skin and didn't seem bothered about it at all. That definitely helped to ease my concerns. For the next few lessons I was picked to do it in skins and soon felt more confident about showing my chest hair, which thickened up more during the course of that year!

Rachael,
The PE teachers didn’t care whether lads had hairy chests or not, the school PE kit rule for boys was white shorts and pumps only for indoor PE. Outdoor team games were often shirts vs skins, if a PE teacher selected you for the skins team you stripped off your shirt immediately without question.

JamesB,

I assume the tawse was used mainly on the hands.
Was it ever used on the bottom?

Also, was there a limit to how many strokes could be given on the hands?

Seeing the comments on this post surprised me quite a bit. I’m probably a bit younger than most people on here, having graduated from a boys only high school three years ago. We didn’t have shirtless pe lessons at any time and I don’t think it would be allowed today. However, we did have swimming lessons for about half a year, for which we wore trunks. If you forgot your trunks or PE kit you were given a detention and missed the lesson.

I've seen comments from other females so I don't awkward for asking if any lads were still made to strip off as skins if they had hairy chests or did they keep their vests on at that stage.

Hi Josh, I'm not sure why - but I don't believe you!
You may have had a fantasy about this happening-but it really doesn't help genuine posters to have confidence in this site if you post "crap". I'm sure there are better sites you can go to play out your fantasies!
PS your grammar isn't the best did you have a learning problem/dyslexia because the way you express yourself seems quite childish!

Hi, I came from a small village near Bristol, and yes, our teacher used to punish us by caning ourselves. One time I forgot PE kit, and she ordered me to join the group taking off my shirt, then she take my shirt so that I cannot take on if I was cold. It was winter and extremely cold, moreover I was the only one bare chested but I was very angry so I offended her.. it was the end, she ordered me to run other 5 laps (400 meter each one) while the other boys were seeing me from the window because of cold. At the end she caned me and it was terrible because I still was shirtless until she let me go inside and gave me my shirt back, even though I prefer to remain shirtless because my chest was full of sweat and I didn’t want to dirty a new shirt..

Howard,

I attended a boys only school in Scotland in the mid-late 60's and we too had 'punishment periods' in the gym. Very hard work and if anyone was slacking then corporal punishment was inflicted.

Being a Scottish school, the cane was not used but the Tawse ( always known as 'the belt') was used extensively. This was usually a 2 tailed leather strap applied with enthusiasm on the hands of the poor boy. In gym class the gym shoe was used across a boys shorts. Our gym kit was exactly as shown in the picture and the 'no underpants' rule was the norm .

JamesB

Howard

It's was a boys only school, and yes I got caned

Alan,
Was it a boys only school or mixed?
Did girls get the same punishment?

Ours was a boys only school.

Btw, my previous post I left out that we wore plimsalls besides just shorts for outdoor running.
The plimsall was also used for whacking by teachers.
The cane was only reserved for the headmaster and that was only used for very serious crimes that affected the whole school.
Your school seems to have had a much harsher regime. Did you ever get the cane?
Any other posters here who got the cane at school?

Howard

The run was mostly country tracks across fields/woodlands near the school.

For a detention if you forget kit, you did your best to borrow a pair of shorts from anyone. Boys who turned up without shorts, did the indoor workout in underpants, then get caned. The detention had to be repeated next week, and counted towards your 3.

If we were late at school, for say after school societies, it was normal to see boys running in only their shorts, as part of their punishment.

Alan, we had the same detention punishments at my school, in just PE shorts although we also wore
If you did not have your PE shorts you had to do it in just underpants.
Also it was not actual runs outside of the school as you mention in yours. We were made to run around the large schoolyard.
Slipperings were also given for repeated detentions.

I find the running barefoot outside on gravel and in winter conditions in your school a bit harsh.
Did you get your punishment runs in just thin shorts in populated areas or just countryside?

Also what happened when a boy did not have his PE shorts with him for these punishment detention runs?

For normal PE we wore shorts/plimsolls, plus a vest for cross country.

Detentions involved a workout and run, then we had to strip to just shorts, same inside and out. Thus we had to run with bare feet and stripped to the waist, plus the cane on return if you got to your 3rd detention.

One of my parents friends had seen boys being punished like this, and spoke to me about it before I started at the school, along the lines of it being an effective punishment for a boy on a winters day. As I soon found out with my first detention, after a workout in the gym, we all had to line up outside ready for the run - it was freezing cold standing hands on head, bare to the waist in only thin shorts, bare feet on gravel.

Fiona, the arrangements at your primary school sound similar to those when my son was at primary. The boys and girls started to change separately from the age of about 8 or 9. However as there were very few male teachers at the school, the boys changing area was often supervised by a female member of staff.

Of course it was different once they got to secondary school, where there were male and female PE teachers and separate changing rooms. Showers were available but rarely used, so I made sure he always had a can of deodorant in his kit bag!

Andrea - Yes Mum and I had, and still have, a very good relationship, and from my teen days onwards have been more like sisters than Mum and daughter!

At primary school we had PE two or three times a week, usually in the hall, but out on the field when weather permitted. Girls and boys were together, although we changed separately, us in our classroom and the boys in the cloakroom. At secondary school the gym had separate changing rooms with showers for boys and girls, we did PE at separate times and the only thing we actually did together was tennis in the summer term.

To answer your second question, I should have mentioned that I lost no time in taking up Mum's suggestion. By the time the new school term started, my bed-time routine had become shower, milk and biscuits downstairs with Mum in my dressing gown, and then straight into bed, au naturelle. All that changed when Dad came home was that there were now three of us to share the biscuits, and three of us sleeping the "grown-up" way.

Ross. Yes were made to go barefoot outside if we changed at the last minute from gym to games outside. Gym was always barefoot.
I had forgotten about always having to bring trainers when we did PE. Boys who did not bring them went barefoot outside.

Fiona, you seem to have had a good relationship with your mum, which helped you deal with both the physical and emotional aspects of puberty.

It took a while to accept that my days as a flat-chested tomboy were over, so my birthday bras lay unworn in my drawer for a few months. Although mum and I weren't as good as you at talking about such things, at least she gave me that breathing space to come to terms with the idea.

When it came time for a 'back to school' shopping trip, she said she didn't really want to buy any new vests and by then I had to admit that wearing a bra for PE would be be more comfortable.

Just a couple more questions. Did boys and girls change separately for PE at your primary school and if not were special arrangements made for those of you wearing bras?
In my primary they were allowed to change in the toilets.

Did you have to revert to wearing nightwear when your dad was home? We didn't have central heating, so sleeping naked wasn't really an option.
On the subject of dads, although he never said anything, I do remember feeling embarrassed the first time one of my bras was on the washing line when he was at home!

Charles. Seems like we went to similar schools. Were you ever compelled to go outside barefoot? I was quite frequently as I was never too happy about carrying around with me a pair of trainers plus alll my school books. Did you ever have a trainer check? We did. We all had to report inside the gym once changed and our teacher checked our trainers and if deemed unsuitable we had to take them off and go barefoot.

Andrea - looking back on it, I think I felt very "grown up" because I was about to go to secondary school and, for the last few weeks of my final primary school term, I was proud to be one of a select group of bra-wearers in a class where some girls were still wearing vests. With Dad away working, often for months at a time, Mum and I were very close and our "birds and bees" discussion had taken place over two or three relaxed years rather than an embarrassed Sunday afternon, so I was very well prepared.

Over the half-term holiday, Mum and I had a celebratory girl's day out, stocking up on cosmetics and "other" supplies, shopping for bras, indulging in a posh lunch followed by an afternoon at the cinema. Back home, as I was modelling my new purchases in front of the mirror, Mum started rummaging in my wardrobe, emerging with an armful of clothes and the observation that, as a grown-up young lady, there were things I didn't need any more. These turned out to be some vests, unloved, unworn but outgrown, whose existence I had forgotten about and whose fate was unquestioned, a nylon nightie of uncertain vintage that had been on my hit-list for a while, and my entire wardrobe of PJs, mostly serviceable although some had seen better days through regular usage.

On questioning the PJs, Mum said that, with duvets and central heated bedrooms, all a fashionable late 20th century young lady needed in bed were her birthday suit and a dab of perfume. During recent hot weather Mum hadn't commented when she found me experimenting with sleeping in just my knickers, but the suggestion that I should wear absolutely nothing at all to bed, presumably for keeps, made me feel VERY "grown up".

Ross. It was same for us. We always had to bring our trainers to every PE lesson in case we switched from inside to outside. Those who did not have trainers for outside did it in bare feet. This was the rule as some tried to get out of PE by deliberately forgetting their trainers for outside PE.
A few times we switched at the last minute from inside to outside as we lined up for gym. So we all did it outdoors in just our shorts.

Fiona,
How did you feel when your mum took you to get fitted for your first bra? Rather than take me for a fitting, my mum just went ahead and bought me a couple of bras as an unexpected birthday present. This was in May of my first year at secondary school. I was rather taken aback as neither of us had brought up the subject beforehand. Also, I was a bit of a tomboy, so it took me a while before I came to terms with the fact that I needed to wear one, so it wasn't until I went back to school at the start of the second year that I started to do so regularly.

I was by no means the first in my class to wear a bra (a few did so before we left Primary school and more started during the first year at Secondary) but I still felt a little apprehensive the first time I went into the PE changing room one. As it happened, several other girls had also got them over the summer and our PE teacher obviously thought a few others should have as she told them to ask their mothers for one.
Talking of quaint terms, our teacher referred to them as 'brassieres' rather than bras.

Andrea - Looking back to my school PE days, I realise my Mum was quite perceptive towards the needs of developing girls, or "young ladies", as she so quaintly put it. So, when I started developing "up top", she lost no time in getting me properly fitted for my first bra, so although I wasn't the first in my class to get one, I was probably the first to get one at the right time! I was also one of the first to go without a vest all the year round but as we had a "proper" PE kit, and proper changing facilities, the only issue there was a certain amount of jealousy from the kids with more conventional mothers.

James & James B,
Yes, I guess talking to parents about supportive underwear was embarrassing at the time. I think my Ex would have preferred the option of buying a supporter at school, rather than going to the local sports shop with his dad.

The timing of us girls getting our first bras varied back then. Some girls seemed to get one almost before they needed one, whereas others needed a prompt from our PE teacher to ask their mums for one.

To answer Andrea and Gavin (although I did mention the same thing quite a long time ago, the PE department at our school sold some items of kit, including jockstraps. My father wasn't the slightest bit sporty and, for some reason I just couldn't see how to bring up the subject of underwear with either of my parents, so I just bought one at school.
As far as washing was concerned, we had a swimming pool at school and many of us would just go through the showers after games lessons with shorts and jocks on and then go into the pool after school. The white nylon shorts did become transparent though)! We had our own lockers so I just left the wet things hanging in my locker to dry off.

Andrea,

Yes, it was exactly the same as your Ex had explained. At the first PE lesson after the summer break we were in the gym and the PE teacher raised the matter. He explained that now that we were older we should consider using a supporter and that these were available from the PE Dept office. There was no mention of this in the School Prospectus. As I say, most boys bought one over the next few weeks.

I agree with your Ex, some boys should have been given the opportunity to buy one much earlier and some boys didn't really need to bother - well, not at that time anyway.

I suppose the same could be said for girls in your PE class. I recall you indicated earlier that the PE teacher needed to speak with girls who should have been in a bra earlier!

James