Burnley Grammar School

Harry, You would have liked our gym lessons: no vests and teams differentiated by inch wide coloured sashes worn over the shoulder, so that teams would be skins, reds, blues etc. No extra layer to make us hot. You suggest that some boys would not like gym without vests. A few days ago I think Bradley said he could think of no reason for not wearing vests. Could one of you explain why please? I really don't understand since all men/boys are bare-chested for public swimming.

Bradley, thank you for explaining about speedo jammers. When you did cross country did you go in the coach already stripped off? It's a sign of the times that you had to have a coach to take you to a field rather than run there.So you are telling me that you didn't wear shirts because if you fell over you would have got your shirts muddy and wouldn't have had time to wash them before the next lesson in the gym.Why did they make you wear a shirt in the gym anyway? I know personally it was much more practicable and comfortable without.Finally, I bet also the coach got more than a little muddy inside .

Harold1, I recently finished school so I can answer your question. Most of the time we did wear tops for PE lessons. Yes, it did cause them to be sweaty so they were put in the washing machine after a few lessons. Teams were differentiated using bibs. Cross country, which took place three times a year, was done in a field a few minutes away from the school by coach and was done shirtless because there were sections which were very muddy and slippery and you were guaranteed to fall over.

In reply to your question Harold1, I was at school six years ago and the answer was both - sort of! We did wear T-shirts for our PE lessons but there were a large number of boys in the class so sometimes we had to divide into four or even six teams. When that happened some boys put bibs on over their T-shirts, some stayed as they were and some had to play with no top at all. Personally I liked to be on the shirtless team, it felt more natural and comfortable but some boys didn't see it that way. From reading these comments it looks like I would have enjoyed doing PE 40-50 years earlier!

I can remember those days during PE lessons when we would be exhausted and sweating. Wearing a shirt would have been a nightmare since all the sweat would stick to it and would probably sweat more when wearing one.

Does anyone know whether schools do PE lessons shirtless? And if they wear shirts, how are teams differentiated? Surely bibs would add even more clothing and lead to even more discomfort and sweating?

Rob, sorry I think you misunderstood me when I wrote about wearing speedos. I was talking about speedo jammers, not speedo briefs. For example,

http://www.speedostore.co.uk/mens-endurance-jammer/800722.html

They are a lot tighter and streamlined than normal trunks and are the best for swimming competitively. They cover the leg and thigh hair so there is less friction with the water, allowing for slightly faster swimming. Olympic swimmers wear them, although it's a more expensive version for them!

Rob,
I don't wear speedos to get an advantage. At swimming competitions, everyone wears them so not wearing one would be a disadvantage since you will be a little bit slower. It's also the same reason that everyone wears swim caps on their heads- the friction between the hair and the water slows you down ever so slightly.

Hope that answers your question

Thank you Rob and William for the explanation.

Gerald, yes normally the purpose of wearing underpants is to stop sweat, and other body fluids, from reaching your trousers, but in the gym we used to sweat profusely and unless we all had a change of underwear it was better to wear nothing under our shorts, which were easy to wash,than to replace our sweaty underwear after showering. I never heard anyone complain about not being able to wear anything under their shorts and never felt embarrassed about it.We were all boys and having to strip off and wear just shorts and plimsolls both in the gym and outside, including cross country runs made us feel relaxed about ourselves and more confident.

Gerald, You were expected to sweat during gym, which was why you had a shower nude afterwards. What's the point of a shower if you then put sweaty pants back on? The crotch is the last place you want an accumulation of stale sweat, which was why wearing pants in gym was considered unhygienic.

Charles - that was the experience of quite a few of us, thanks for speaking up. Nothing soft about wearing a jockstrap, indeed quite commonsensical!

Bradley,learning to swim at your old school obviously made you keen to get more involved in the sport.In your quest to
go faster by wearing Speedos does that mean you also have to shave your body hair before competitions?

Charles, You are right, there is nothing soft about a jockstrap but we never saw them. I doubt whether most of us knew what they were, but then I was at school a few years before you. Neither did I see the white nylon shorts that some contributors have described. Ours were cotton like those in the photo

Rob, The photo is exactly like the gym lessons I had at grammar school. As it was taken in 1959, we can be pretty sure from the many comments below that the boys were wearing nothing under their shorts; and it doesn't seem to bother them to judge from the boys on the ropes and the beam. The reason I think is that we were all in the same boat. If I had been the only boy to do a handstand with my legs held, I might well have been embarrassed to have everything under the shorts on display; but the fact that we all did it was a great antidote to feeling awkward. I didn't understand at the time but this relaxed approach gave us confidence.

We became attached to our shorts and really tried to make them last! We grew into them. Rolling the waistband to keep them up also pulled up the legs and made them a tighter fit, which was just as well for a boy of 15 and it made the shorts feel good. I can hear the youngsters saying that this all sounds a bit dodgy, but we really didn't think anything of it.

We all understand why today is so much less relaxed, although I had not realised that there are schools today where the pupils never have showers, but have we thrown the baby out with the bath water? It is hard not to feel sorry for some of the young men today who seem to be so inhibited that they do not remove their chlorine soaked trunks when they have a shower after swimming.

I can't pretend that gym and games were all fun at school. Sometimes we were dreadfully cold but I would rather have had the physical hardship than leave school with hang ups about bodies and body image - not that we knew what body image was.

Interesting to read these comments, takes me back to my childhood!

Looking back, the no pants rule was very unnecessary. William, I don't quite understand your point about pants being unhygienic. Surely, the purpose of wearing underwear is to stop sweat from reaching the shorts/trousers? Personally, I always thought it was a stupid rule and I'm glad today's teens don't have to put up with it.

I don't think schools are too soft, just less harsh. Wetsuits in swimming is a good way to encourage more people who may be self conscious to take up swimming. Jockstraps/underwear are important for safety. I do think that today's teens are as confident and strong as we were, just that they didn't have to deal with unnecessarily harsh rules for PE

William,we've just described the same gym kit and how we wore the same shorts from the first year until we left.We were sometimes sent out on a cross country run in our gym period, admittedly usually only between April and October,and we also did athletics in the summer term. All this was still in just shorts and plimsolls; did the same apply to you? In the winter we played football and wore a shirt but with nothing on under our shorts it was certainly very cold at times. Nude showers were obligatory after all the above activities, but like you and many others we accepted it without question and got used to it. However,apart from the cold, I can say that I actually enjoyed it most of the time and it didn't do me any harm, but I don't think most of today's lads would cope with it, which is a pity because it would do them good in many ways.

William
Nothing soft about wearing a jockstrap when you are 16+ years ... just common sense ... Went to school in 60-70s

I have just seen this item and was staggered by the number of comments. I can confirm what most of the others have said about gym and games at boys schools in the early '60s. For gym I wore plimsolls without socks, no vest and shorts with nothing underneath, which made 20 star jumps a bit of a laugh. Any boy wearing pants would be told to take them off because it was unhygienic to sweat in pants. Nude showers after gym were compulsory and supervised by the gym master. Our shorts were baggy in the first form but it was a tradition to hang on to shorts for as long as possible, so by the fourth form we had to roll over the waistband to keep them up because the elastic was weak. We wore nothing under shorts for cross country, athletics, rugby and hockey, no matter how cold it was. Sometimes after games our fingers were so numb that we could not do up shirt buttons but it did us no lasting harm. We had to get on with it and not make a fuss. Jock straps, wet suits for swimming and games only in good weather would have been unimaginable. How soft schools have become!

Bradley, times change because when I was young lad, my parents used to encourage me to take my shirt off and get the sun and fresh air to my body as it was good for me. I used to play outside with other boys and in the summer we often took our shirts off.I later got the impression that our parents were keen to ensure that none of us got rickets as I know my grandmother suffered from it as a child.At primary school any sort of PE was done in our ordinary clothes without taking anything off, but when I went to the boys grammar school at the first lesson we were told to change into just shorts with nothing underneath and plimsolls, no socks and stripped to the waist.This wasn't a problem for me as I had been used to going shirtless for some years and was our kit throughout our school years.It is evident from this website that this was also the norm at most schools for many years.

Similar to Toby our uniform listed a white vest. But from day 1 our PE teachers both insisted on bare chests, regardless of weather conditions!

Mums insisted we wore vests in winter so most ended up being used as underwear.
We used bibs to distinguish teams, but vests were prohibited.
Having PE outdoors first thing on a winter morning was pure lunacy. From Mum insisting on a vest under 3 or 4 layers to going without a vest for an hour on frozen ground.
Always followed by a cold shower.
Prisoners were treated better.

Andrew, our pool was not in an enclosed area and the pool was visible from one of the other school buildings, so you can understand why it would not have been appropriate to not wear trunks.
Our school did prioritise sports and we did get tired after lessons.

Toby, I find it surprising that a teacher would tell students to not wear a shirt during PE lessons, especially at all times in the year. What was the reason given for this rule? It seems pretty unnecessary to me. At my school, I only remember taking shirts off in PE lessons during the summer, only when it was too warm or for certain occasions; it was very rare.

Lewis, speedos are more popular now than before. For competitive swimming, they are much better than other swimming trunks because they are more streamlined and can improve swimming times by quite a lot. I myself wear them for competitions and galas as they really do help your swimming time.

Lewis,although I was still wearing shorts at 14, I would have considered it far too old to be still wearing shorts.
I had to wear shorts 24/7 and they were quite comfortable to wear,albeit they were of an absurd brevity,hence they were referred to as'short shorts'.

John I was in the same situation as you. Although most boys in secondary school wore long trousers, my parents considered me too short for longs and consequently I was wearing shorts until about late 13's or 14. The upshot of this was that not many shops sold grey shorts for older boys and so the one s I had were quite tight and uncomfortable. Without being too indelicate this caused my underpants to cause me discomfort.

Furthermore it was not very pleasant in winter. Short shorts and long woollen socks. What a great day when I was finally allowed to wear longs!

Lewis,'short shorts'were not only worn for sporting activities,but were worn for school uniform for first and second years and then were optional.
My parents didn't consider age a credible reason for promoting me to wearing long trousers, so I continued to wear short till I left school.
I never felt grown up wearing short shorts and they could be a bit chilly in the winter.

Bradley, being stripped to the waist for PE and Games started just a couple of days at school. For our first PE lesson we'd changed into our kit, which was a vest, shorts and trainers and taken out onto the field. The teacher made it crystal clear that irrespective of the time of year, indoors or out, or the weather we would be stripped down and then picked a lad at ramdom and made him drop his vest facing the class. Seconds later we were all barechested.

At the school I attended we were made to work hard during PE and during double PE it wasn't unusual for lads to sweat. This was the norm for me from being a 9 year old through to 18 and leaving after A levels.

Bradley, just as showering came as a shock to you, if you had been a pupil at the time of most posters on this site and your school had a policy of swimming without trunks, you would have got used to it - there would have been no option. At that time, school rules were not questioned. Doing PE stripped to the waist was a shock to me and, although I hated it, I just had to get used to it.

It is quite often that fashion goes round in circles and I wonder if short football shorts will make a comeback. I suppose if one of the premier football teams had short shorts as their kit they would become the "must have" accessory.

Also i wonder if swimming trunks like "speedos" will make a return as a fashion item because I think a lot of men including youngsters abroad wear them.

Andrew, Sorry about that, but welcome to the site.

Rob, it appears you mistook me for another Andrew on this webpage. The post I made about my nephew's school was e first post I made on this webpage.

Andrew, how would those boys in your nephew's swimming class have coped with the experience you described with the Royal Navy and Merchant Navy three day events?

Looking at Bradley's posts, it's clear how soft a society we've become and our education system is directly responsible for this. In my nephews school where he teaches, boys are allowed to wear full body wetsuits for swimming- absolutely idiotic. Looks like Bradley's school at least wasn't too soft and leftist. Bradley, a few questions: was your swimming pool in an enclosed, private area? If so, why were trunks worn? Was proper sport played in your school and did students get a proper workout?