Burnley Grammar School

Craig A, sorry, I meant to type 'communal showers'.

Craig A, I agree with you entirely.When we arrived for our first PE lesson we were told to go to the changing room and strip off completely,including our pants and socks and to come back into the gym wearing just shorts with nothing on underneath and plimsolls. On the way to the changing room some lads were asking whether we were allowed to wear a T shirt and we said 'no, just shorts and plimsolls'. That was how it always was for us indoors and out, including cross country running and it was most enjoyable. At the end of the first lesson it was a shock being made to go naked into the open corporate showers but we soon got used to it as we all progressed during our time at the school from being boys to become confident young men.

We were made to strip to the waist a few mins into the first lesson and made very clear that we would strip off for all exercise, indoors and out. This was indeed the case for us. There is no reason not to have the lads stripped indoors it's the feminist brigade stopping boys becoming young men. I'm sure the majority would embrace it too.

A few years ago the current mantra was:- "Stranger Danger" resulting in people being afraid to help a child in difficulties for fear of being accused of being a paedophile. In fact children are often more in danger from close associates even family members.

Bernard has prompted me to comment that I too thought Ambrose's remarks were exceptionally good. No doubt many of the measures taken today to protect children are well-intentioned but the cumulative effect creates the impression that danger lurks everywhere. No wonder children worry more than they did 50 years ago.

It has been a while since I looked at the comments here and I was interested to see those about boxing. When my older brother started at Grammar School the p.e. kit list included a pair of red shorts specifically for boxing though this sport was never encountered and the shorts never worn. When I started at the school two years later I was not bought a pair. We only ever wore the black or white shorts.
Ambrose - you comment on 8th June was absolutely spot on! I can relate to all your points having been born in the early 50s. Times were so much simpler then and common sense more abundant rather than the hysteria we see these days about the stupidest of things.

Hi GSB, It was but you soon got used to the extra time. I lost my first fight but at least went the distance. I remember taking some real beatings and stripping to the waist for PE, making up excuses for the bruises. Always apologising if I did knock anyone out.. no idea why! Giving prizemoney to my gran which always went towards housekeeping.

Hi GSB, It was but you soon got used to the extra time. I lost my first fight but at least went the distance. I remember taking some real beatings and stripping to the waist for PE, making up excuses for the bruises. Always apologising if I did knock anyone out.. no idea why! Giving prizemoney to my gran which always went towards housekeeping.

Hi Andrew

Many thanks for your reply. That must have been a bit of a shock going from 3 x 70-second rounds to 5 x 2-minute rounds when you turned 13!

Any memorable bouts you can tell us about (either your own or those you watched)?

Hi John, Not sure about respect but never had a problem with bullies after I started to box. Most fights were in various farmsheds so not to attract attention. I only ever fought one lad who only left his vest. His mum wanted him to wear it being his debut fight. . It was sticking to him at the end of second round. After that he stripped off like the rest of us.

Hi Andrew,
At least you had the opportunity to box whilst you were still at school, I bet you got a lot of respect from other lads of your age when they found out that you boxed. I can’t understand why any male would want to wear a vest or shirt to box in, it just feels natural as a male to strip to the waist to box and most lads would think any lad was soft if they wanted to keep their shirt on.

Hi John, Boxing was done away from school in what could be best described as a fight club. It was hard but we had more respect fighting stripped to the waist as everyone sees how you take it and watch you sweat up.

Hi Andrew,

You were really lucky that you had the opportunity to box whilst at secondary school. I would love to have had the chance to try boxing, I think that it’s good for lad’s confidence and should have been on the PE curriculum.

Hi GSB, The fights were held privately and on the QT in remote spots and lads were from age 10 upwards. For your debut you could wear a vest, though most didn't, after that you stripped off. U13s fought a max of 3x 70 second rounds,13+ fought 5x 2 min rounds,16+ fought 6x 2mins 30. The pot was split 3 ways to the lads who'd put up the best fight. Hope this helps.

Hi Everyone. My name is Rob but since there already seem to be a number of Robs here, I’ve called myself GSB (Grammar School Boy)!

I look in on this site from time to time and at first could not believe its popularity in terms of both the number of views and posts, but thinking about it, perhaps I should not be surprised. When one gets to a certain age, I think most of us start looking back at our school days either with great fondness or regret - or a mixture of the two. And PE lessons always seem to create strong emotions – usually either love or hate, and because they were different to the majority of lessons (ie, not desk-bound and classroom-based) form strong memories – even after half a century, I can still remember quite a few specific incidents that happened in PE - the same cannot be said for Maths, French, Chemistry, Geography or any other lesson!

Just for the record, and at risk of boring everyone, my kit was similar to so many others here. Indoor PE was done in white ankle socks, white plimsolls and short white shorts. Outdoors, athletics, cross-country and tennis were the same but with a white t-shirt which, unofficially, was optional. Actually, thinking about it, from probably sometime in the second year upwards, the socks and plimsolls became unofficially optional in the gym, so if you had no homework books to carry, on days you had PE, you could just roll up your shorts and stuff them in your blazer pocket (much to Mum’s annoyance who carefully washed and ironed them every week!) How different to the huge bags full of kit one sees poor kids struggling with today. Sometimes minimalist and simplest is best!

Andrew Pearson - I have just read your post (1st May) – “My sisters weren’t keen on seeing me in a ring but it helped bring in some extra money for essentials” - have I understood it correctly that you were paid to take part in boxing matches whilst still at school? Please tell us more – I am intrigued.

And to all those who have mentioned boxing at school, please tell us more details of how it was organised and how it all worked, along with any particular memories you have. The one thing I was hugely looking forward to doing at secondary school was the boxing – only to find when I got there (this was the mid 1960's), that it had been stopped the year before. My frustration and anger continue to this day, and I remain fascinated by the whole idea, and would love to hear all about it in much more detail from those lucky (or some might say unlucky?) enough to have done boxing as part of PE.

TimH, good to know there are so many lads voluntarily opting to play football with their tops off. As you say, they should definitely be encouraged - but I think John is right to suggest a shirtless rule for PE. The reason is that if it's optional then only the more confident boys will take their tops off, others - who may be shy - won't and their self esteem could suffer further as they grow up. I was in the latter group as a young teen and I'm thankful now that I wasn't given the option in PE. I was often required to do it shirtless throughout my school years and I feel that really helped me in the long run.

Addendum to Ambrose's comments We stood at the football ground.We didn't count the calories and we didn't have to worry about whether we had five a day or not!Happy Days!

Tim H,
I didn’t wish to imply that lads should have to play football or other games outside in winter shirtless, that would be ridiculous. Doing indoor gym classes and playing indoor team games shirtless was fine, I never felt that I was being abused and my teachers were totally normal and treated us appropriately always.

The point I was trying to make is that given the choice many lads are happy to play sports shirtless.

Ambrose well scripted although I was sixties and seventies I can relate to all those topics you itemised!How true.

John - I'm not so sure I'd want to make it a rule but I think that encouraging lads to do some sports shirtless is OK - it is more natural - certainly indoor gym & summer sports outside, but thinking of the cold winter we've had I wouldn't want to make boys do outdoor sports topless in that.

From past experience I suspect the lads I saw will probably stay topless for much of the summer - certainly well into September and that that they'll discover that they prefer shorter shorts rather than the long baggy sort some people seem to prefer. So much of this is down to useage - when you get used to something it becomes natural.

I'm lucky to live in a leafy semi-rural area where lots of the children still walk to the local Middle school. Just casual observations make me think that a good proportion of the boys prefer shorts - certainly in summer - and that, like posties, wearing shorts in bad weather is seen as a 'mark of honour' - I did see one lad walking to school in shorts last December.

(Of course, there is the story of a lady [not local] who saw two boys going to school in shorts in October and reported the parents to Social Services for mistreating them)

Ambrose.
I completely concur with your comments. Those were the days of freedom not like it is now. With regards to education, at least we could converse without having to use the word "like" which the youngsters seem to do nearly every other word like!!

Yes we knew about "stranger danger" but then usually we were out to with at least one or two friends and there was safety in numbers.
How things have changed. If I am out on my own without my wife or son and smile at a young child, I do worry about what the response of the adult with that child will be.

Tim H,

Your recent observations would seem to be proof that most lads enjoy playing sports shirtless. Therefore there was nothing wrong with a stripped to the waist rule for boys Physical Education.

Just a comment a boys being topless (Or not): in the recent hot weather I've several times seen boys (young teens?) playing football on open ground near me - all in shorts, all topless - and not an adult about to 'enforce' a 'skins' rule.

How times have changed! Congratulations to all who survived being born in the 40's and 50's to mothers who smoked/drank, ate blue cheese and raw egg products, and processed meat, and didn't get tested for diabetes or cervical cancer. After that trauma our baby cots were covered with lead based paint, and medicine bottles had no child proof lids.
We rode in cars with no seat belts, and when we rode our bikes we had no helmets. We drank water from taps not bottles, and take away food was limited to fish and chips; no pizza, KFC, McDonalds etc. We didn't starve to death even though shops closed at 6:00pm and all day Sunday. We shared one fizzy drink bottle with four friends and no one actually died from this!

We ate white bread with real butter, had full fat milk and soft drinks with sugar in, but we weren't overweight because we were always playing outside. We would leave home in the morning and play all day, with no one able to reach us, and we were OK. We would spend hours building go-carts with no brakes, tree houses and dens, and go paddling in streams. We fell out of trees, got cuts, broke bones and teeth, and there were no law suits from these accidents. We had no Playstations, Nintendo Wii, X-boxes, video games, mobile phones, personal computers or internet chat rooms, - we had friends!

Not everyone made the school teams. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Our teachers used to hit us with canes and gym shoes, or throw blackboard rubbers at us if we weren't concentrating; but we could string a sentence together and spell, and have proper conversations because of a good solid three R's education.
Even though we ran around wearing the minimum of clothing on a hot summers day every person we passed was not seen as a child molester; we knew what we should and shouldn't do with strangers.

We grew up in an age where we had freedom, failure, success, responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all. An age before the lawyers and government regulated our lives for our own good - and through it all we survived!

Jonathan C, I couldn’t agree with you more. Being made to strip to the waist for PE and games makes lads more confident. I enjoyed gym and sports far more than I would have done if I’d had to endure a hot sweaty shirt stuck to my back. Presumably the poor school boys of 2018 that get too hot whilst doing PE will never be allowed to take their shirts off to cool down.

I think we were very lucky to have been educated when we were, it seems that there was more consideration given to what was best for lads then.
Nowadays the primary concern is to keep boys covered up in case the
sight of barechested lads exercising might offend someone; this restricts lads normal development as males I think.

John, He admitted later he should've just stripped off and got on with it. He proved he could handle being stripped and joined me on the school's xcountry team later in the year. There's no real reason for lads not to strip off for sport/exercise. It's part of the feminist culture that stops lads being treated as lads.

Jonathan C, I do have some sympathy for the lad who was new to your school. The lad’s parents would have received a uniform list that stated that he needed a vest for PE, so it clearly came as a shock to him being told to strip to the waist. At his previous school he must have been used to always wearing tops and he must not have played shirts vs skins either. The lad was very brave by defying the PE teacher.

I think that it was good that he received some punishment but I think that they went too far. The lad should have done as he was told by the teacher.

Some lads at my Senior School protested when the PE teacher told them that PE would be done stripped to the waist but none of them dared to defy the teacher and just did as they were told.

Chris, No, I never had a problem with my sisters seeing me without a shirt and in just a pair of shorts.They enjoyed it when I used to exercise in the garden, especially when I was swinging my arms about and doing other exercises as we did stripped off in PE at school.

Hi John, It was only basketball we did as vests vs skins so it was normal to see vests sticking to backs when we played. Vests vs skins was a quick and simple way to create teams.

John, When we were 14 one lad in our class who'd recently moved to the school refused to strip off for a lesson in the gym and was made to spend his lunchtimes stripped off on the field doing a mix of press ups, and sit ups for a week. Some of girls found it funny but on the whole the PE teachers were respected. You knew how you were on and what you needed to do.