Burnley Grammar School

What initially caught my eye about this site which looked at first glance like an inoffensive history archive site for mainly the older generation was the discovery around about a year and a half ago that someone had written something about the school I work at and condemned it for its PE policies, mainly the continuation of showering. That was written by the person styling themselves Mr Dando at that time. I gave a very robust defence.

I am not going to condemn anybody as a liar because I wasn't there and don't know the details as those that were provided have been very sparse. But there is a lot of truth in what Matthew says although rules on healthy and safety at school are down to each school to interpret and some places I'm sure are more zealous than others. In my school I would not be allowed to take a double or triple sized class of boys for PE outside at this time of year and either ask or tell them to do PE without upper body coverage of any kind. I suppose if I wished to do so I could do so myself but that would not be a choice I would make so would not happen. This contrasts completely with doing PE indoors where I have autonomy to choose that option and on occasions some of the PE class or the whole class do some PE in a shirtless capacity largely without any incidents about it.

I think shirtless PE can be considered a reasonable thing, as can running like that, like the bareskin runner has mentioned, it is a healthy option but not if you might be giving your class hypothermia or other health related issues.

There appears to be systematic and utterly intentional character assassination going on here. It and its author are utterly disgusting.

I first posted because I thought my recollections of my forty two years as a school master teaching French and coaching rugby might be of interest along with some recollections of my earlier life and school days. After all, it’s what this site seems to be about. I told it as it was back then and also stated that things have changed a great deal and what was acceptable in the early 1960s when I started teaching would not be acceptable now. My comments initially seemed to be very well received and I provided responses to questions I was asked. I also joined in some other topics, wild swimming which I did again earlier today and bare skin running, something seeing a revival but when I was a boy it was normal. We simply didn’t have shirts for PE and many who post here recollect the same thing or if they did, they didn’t wear them.

One topic I was asked questions about was corporal punishment, something very normal in the 1960s but illegal now. I answered the questions even though they dug a bit deeper than I expected them to. I couldn’t see any merit in withholding information, it’s all in the past and when I first replied, my response began with the observation that it must be remembered that what I was saying was the norm at the time though now it would not be legal but times have changed. Pushed, I answered a question about what I referred to as the ‘ultimate sanction’ and emphasised that with the exception of a sixth former bullying a younger boy, which happened less than once a year during my career, the ‘ultimate sanction’ was used extremely rarely and only for a persistent offender. My comments were dispassionate and factual as anyone who took the trouble to actually read them would, I think, agree.

That has now been misquoted, taken completely out of context and reframed, describing me as “A dirty old man who boasts of making a boy remove his underpants in order for him to cane him”. And of course, the author of that one liner was Alan on 14th December 2023 at 20:43.
And “It is bad enough that such punishments were allowed in the past, to salivate about it in retirement seems especially seedy.” Alan on 13th December 2023 at 05:09.

Just two of the many very nasty comments aimed at me for simply answering questions and as I say dispassionately. The revolting twists that have been put on these responses are of course 100% Alan and if anyone has a perverted and disordered mind, it is him.

Of course, as I’ve seen with others, what happens then is a number of names with no identifiable posting history jump on the bandwagon to condemn and despise.

Barney is a clear victim of this too. I see he has started to refute Alan’s vile posts and he may well have more, much more to say. I’ve read back through Barney’s posts and going back to the beginning a few months back, he provides some very interesting accounts of his life growing up and yet again, a single thing he says is pulled out, twisted, misrepresented and becomes a single topic of vilification on the part of Alan and a number of other one line posts all agreeing with Alan. It seems orchestrated.

Original Andy, can I’m sure stand up for himself. He has provided some excellent information on his personal training regime which helped others and provoked some thinking for me. It seems that Alan has a long standing dislike of Original Andy who is clearly an accomplished, professional and erudite man. Then we see a new poster pop up claiming to be a retired policeman and effectively carrying out a character assassination of Original Andy which is refuted. Almost immediately we have Alan popping up in full agreement with the supposed policeman and condemning Original Andy for refuting the supposed policeman’s claims, in fact the response from Alan was so fast, you would think he had his response prepared already. It was a vile response and since he mentioned me, I will quote it here;

“I think I have seen it all this morning, though with this post (Comment by: Original Andy on 15th December 2023 at 09:22), where he takes to task an ex police officer, with a load of bluster, common abuse and ignorant and condescending cant, reeking with snobbery (similar to the good Doctor "Hugh") . He almost puts old "Mr. Chips" and his claims of caning "younger boys", sans trousers and underwear and Barney's morning prowling of school playing fields to watch half naked schoolboys in their exercises. "Barney" says he is retired, so why should a man in his sixties or seventies seek out schoolboys - not just once, but persistently?” Alan on 15th December 2023 at 11:33

It's a vile comment and if anyone takes the trouble to actually read what I and others have written, they will recognise the not even half truths but utter lies Alan is writing in the post.

Move on a little, then we have a character called Claire pop up making a number of suggestions about the management of this site. I’m sure the site manager has considered the management of it. Now, we all know it takes several hours meaning at least three to four for posts to appear here, I don’t understand why but that’s what happens and others report exactly the same experience so I believe it to be the norm. We see Claire’s post and of course it’s still there for all to see. Within two hours of Claire’s post, we see four other posts all agreeing with her and of course as one might expect, one of them is from Alan. You would have to believe those four posts knew the content of Claire’s post before it was published. Yet Alan is so quick to call out others but this time he’s been caught red handed.

Looking back there is a clear history of Alan at work here, people who don’t agree with him have to be driven away and will be ridiculed and belittled until they grow fed up and nauseated by the vile posts that he makes. I felt quite sick when I saw what he had written about me. I think it’s called slander and there can be consequences to that.

I’ve no doubt now that this post will be taken out of context, misquoted and twisted but my quotes of Alan are cut and pasted, not twisted, not misinterpreted, not misrepresented. They are what he said.

There is no doubt whatever to me where the absolute rot, call it a cancer of the worst sort is on this board. It’s vile and disgusting. Please don’t be taken in by it. In future, I was assume that those agreeing with Alan are actually posts being made by him under other names because in reality, no decent person would agree with his foul and slanderous writings.

Comment by: Matthew S on 15th December 2023 at 23:11


A few cranks jump into the sea on Xmas Day, Matthew, but we are being asked to believe that an entire class of fifty lads (50 lads to a class is worse than my day) of their own volition, chose so to do on a cold December day.

I am afraid I do not believe that for a moment.

Matthew S.

Summertime quite possibly. Shirtless PE does still take place at the request of the teacher but in terms of what was described it would fall foul of modern day health and safety rules on assessment of the risks involved in most schools now. This is according to a teacher governor friend of mine at an 1100 pupil secondary who I met for a festive tipple this evening and brought this comment up for an opinion. A further opinion from any of the other ex and current teachers would be welcome if they haven't all been scared off by the diabolical mud slinging, and who could blame them.

Don't mind my intruding, but isn't it possible Barney is telling the truth?

You see adults and children happily jumping in the sea on Christmas Eve.
His being a school governor is explanation enough for him not to want to name the school.

A pity we can't get back to politely exchanging recollections.

I'm not being turned by that explanation Barney, sorry and until you made that fifty shirtless boys and teachers post I had no reason to think you were anything other than genuine. I am no apologist for Alan either whose posts are far too obsessively negative and sometimes do my head in.

My very first post here was attacked in the most vile and condescending manner by Alan and so he has continued to partly quote things I've said or even not said to attempt to make me look like the pervert he is. I never have and never would do anything wrong and I've explained, now several times my involvement with the school which Alan ignores and continues to abuse me. It is he and not me that is the disordered person here and his obsession with a poster using multiple names only demonstrates his own guilt.

I stand by what I've said, I will not refer to Alan again, or indeed the obviously many other names he uses and I would suggest that no sensible person should. It's clear, anyone who disagrees with him is to be utterly discredited. We have someone claiming to be a policeman posting dubious content, all subjective attacking someone who claims to be a barrister refuting it quite objectively. Andy dislikes the barrister and wishes to bring him into disrepute, a bit like me. The policeman is held up as someone of virtue, the barrister's response is treated like rubbish.

The source of the problem, to anyone looking objectively is Alan.

This is my last reference to this subject.

On about three occasions I've submitted mundane polite inoffensive comments and they have failed to appear for some reason. The inner workings of this site appear to be somewhat mysterious don't they. I was having similar thoughts to Derek after browsing the current batch.

Carl Sagan - "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

If what the poster had written was back in December 1973 I'd not think twice about it. I ran a few shirtless cross countries in the early 1970s, although not in December, I think I did a few as late as the end of October half term break up, so in '73 school must have broken up on 26th October, I was 14, and I used to have PE on a Friday, as well as Tuesdays.

Boys could tend to be reluctant to do so but we just used to get shouted at if we malingered over such things we weren't going to change. It was okay once you got out there and going but I didn't like going along public roads and local lanes.

But that was now fifty years ago and times have surely changed and although I did the very things that Barney says, in groups of anywhere from 30 to quite possibly 50 or maybe even more, I do struggle to imagine that in December 2023 and if I was on a jury panel having to decide one way or the other I'd not believe it as it was told.

Hear, hear Claire!

Agree with every word of that.

I'd like to second Claire's eminently sensible post of 10.02 this morning. I think there should be some more stringent methods for signing it and verifying accounts, so that those of us who post under our own names cannot be "confused" by the more vexatious or elderly posters, as having other profiles. For the record I have only one forename, but I suspect those blessed with two or three use those to post what are, on close examination very similar, and often insulting messages, by using all of them for different, though similar messages.

I think I have seen it all this morning, though with this post (Comment by: Original Andy on 15th December 2023 at 09:22), where he takes to task an ex police officer, with a load of bluster, common abuse and ignorant and condescending cant, reeking with snobbery (similar to the good Doctor "Hugh") . He almost puts old "Mr. Chips" and his claims of caning "younger boys", sans trousers and underwear and Barney's morning prowling of school playing fields to watch half naked schoolboys in their exercises. "Barney" says he is retired, so why should a man in his sixties or seventies seek out schoolboys - not just once, but persistently?.

I frankly don't believe these events took place - but that is not the point. It is things they would have LIKED to have happened, which shows the state of their lascivious minds. The more logical their critics are, the more , the more outrageous their insults become. It is the cyber equivalent of writing anonymous letters in green ink.

By all means, Claire - and forum director, let's have a more secure sign-in system, so readers can be assured we are who we say we are. I have nothing to hide, and I am sure most f the decent people on here who contribute to the site haven't either.

Those who enter into personal abuse against others have lost the argument. It's that simple really.

Claire you speak a lot of sense there and you are spot on.

If nothing else I want to know where the moderation is and why highly abusive personal comments are being published on this discussion that relate nothing to the subject in hand here. The comments never appear immediately, some take hours to come up. Who on earth could think some of this bile is worth placing here. Even the most basic responsible site will normally filter this kind of thing out.

It's increasingly clear that mainly one person appears to be responsible for creating the illusion of widespread bad feeling. The tone is all the same, the manner things are being said, the referring to highly professional jobs etc.

The historical novelist Edward Rutherfurd (born 1948), who wrote among others the novel "Sarum" about the history of Salisbury, tells this amusing anecdote from his schooldays:

https://www.edwardrutherfurd.com/the-history-boys.html

Though it has nothing to do with French, Latin or physical education, I thought Mr Chips might appreciate that story.

And as i don't seem to have been "bounced", even the verification code is NOT case-sensitive!

Perhaps it's time to sasy 2Goodbye Mr Chips!"

Seeriously though, this must be the only discussion site on the internet you can roll up and post , under as many aliases as you like, without any form of validation whatsoever. No confirmation of email address, IP address, or any other technique to prevent abuse. I suspect that even teh V eification code can be bypassed bu soneont sufficiently bothered to write a bit of code.

Geoff on 14th December 2023 at 15:46

No, you’re not King Henry VIII but quite obviously PC Pleb.

Lovely that you think you know how I organise my day, it’s a great demonstration of your ignorance but then that’s something I would expect. Nothing like examining a bristling, thicker than average plod and showing him up to be a liar, ignorant and a fool because he makes assumptions with no evidence but he ‘knows’ just like you and claims ‘experience of the job’ as his rationale and he's 'seen it all before'. It wastes so much public money in the justice system. I bet you enjoyed getting a few vulnerable lads in the cells in the evening for a good kicking? I’ve seen the bruises often enough.

Language and profile? Do you not realise that the public and professional face is very different to the private one as it is in most places except Plodland where you bristle with self-importance all the time?

Thames Valley? So which case of corruption leading to dismissal were you involved in or have you not been caught yet? You will be just like those friends of yours from the Met and their WhatsApp messages last week. There’s always the stench. Or was it one of the sexual misconduct cases that you were involved in? Thames Valley had one of the highest rates of those back in 2020. The thing about plods is that they are all so self righteous and always right and as they rise up the heap, they get thicker and more entrenched.

On the remainder of the drivel you write, you’re another one who hasn’t read the whole story and jumped on the troll bandwagon along with just as ignorant others. I’d keep quiet if I were you but a plod never takes advice because he always knows best.


Barney on 14th December 2023 at 18:11

The trolls are definitely out in force! You seem to be the main target at the moment and it’s clear none of them have read your posts, then I suspect most of them can’t read very much anyway and of course they have to follow Alan Dando’s instructions.


Alan on 14th December 2023 at 18:22

Methinks the lady doth protest too much. So many trolls and posting right through the night too. All that activity must be keeping you awake dreaming up the next one line insult.

Again.

I’ve seen all this behaviour here before of Alan deciding to attack a poster who doesn’t fit his idea of what this board should be about. At the moment it’s Barney and I see also Mr Chips. No doubt it will be someone else who doesn’t fit his ideas soon. Isn’t it strange that when you go back over the 195 pages of this board you can see so much evidence of Alan on the attack and the same names joining in. A coincidence? As I’ve said before, I don’t believe in them.

I honestly wish the site owner would issue a statement, verifying that our posts are made with our unique computer IDs. I always now publish my email address as a sign of good faith, and all my posts include my name and my name only.

It would stop "doctors", "barristers" and alleged "school governors" making very unprofessional fools of themselves, by claiming I am (at last count) six other individuals.

My consolation is that all the gentleman who have posted, casting doubt about barechested boys and their masters in the depths of December al fresco. and bare buttock caning, - men who I totally agree with, by he way, will know that they are not me, and will see some pathetic and disgusting lies and absurd slurs for what they are - the product of some very disturbed minds.

I don't think I will be reading or posting on this forum again if this is the level of stupidity now counting for adult discussion. It's obvious the forum has been compromised and is no longer trustworthy.

So it's goodbye from me, and to the moderator get a grip of your site.

Alan on 14th December 2023 at 18:22

Either you still haven't seen the psychiatrist as I recommended or you have stopped taking your medication, which is it because your level of delusion is back and severe and you are posting under all your troll names in short order.

Please seek help or I really can see you being detained under the Mental Health Act again.

"Mr Chips" came on here for the first time in November seeming like a rather nice friendly chap but now seems to have had a personality change and become oddly cantankerous and abusive in exactly the same way as Original Andy. Worth the comparison that one. I seem to have been incredibly naive in believing too many of these people I think.

There is nothing more unedifying than someone who has been well and truly caught out then trying to dig ever deeper despite all the evidence staring everyone on here in the face. There is a tiny cabal here, quite possibly just one person, going under goodness knows how many names.

Do I believe Barney and the suggestion of that incredible amount of shirtless lads he alleges seeing on a cold December day, plus the teachers shirtless as well. Of course I don't. It never happened and we all know it. You should see some of the trivial things that often get put in our local rag about our local schools with parents quick on the draw to complain nowadays about the little darlings sensitivities. Most of them would never buy into their sons being sent out by the PE teacher stripped bare to the waist at this time of year.

This is now harming the perfectly genuine posts coming on here that will now be met with doubt rather sadly.

Comment by: Mr Chips on 14th December 2023 at 18:07


A dirty old man who boasts of making a boy remove his underpants in order for him to cane him, is not somebody I would want to be bosom pals with. There is a ''fool'' here, and he is you.

I think we hve had more than enough of your prurient outpourings.

Barney: Your scabrous message doesn't merit a reply. I understand your embarrassment at having been found out, so to speak, so I will make allowance for your overwrought conduct, and revolting letting off of steam. For your information I suffer insomnia, so I turn that disadvantage to gain by working part of the night checking auction websites to find stock. I have no interest in hanging round school playing fields.

Nick on 14th December 2023 at 16:11

Another one who hasn't bothered to read what I've previously written before jumping on the troll bandwagon. I've written enough about the school and me over recent weeks. If you had any manners at all, you would bother to read it before throwing your toys out of your cot.

For instance, I've said several times that I'm a governor but trolls state repeatedly that I have no connection to the school. It's just ignorance and bad manners but then they are trolls.

Those who are so interested to know more about it seem to want to go and stand on the sidelines being voyeurs. I can't think of any other reason why they would be so obsessed.

Chris G on 13th December 2023 at 09:57

Ah, merci, j'ai mal compris votre message. Cela a beaucoup plus de sens. Il est encore assez rare qu'un Français initie une conversation dans une autre langue.

Original Andy on 14th December 2023 at 07:52

It seems many of us are under attack! I really don't care, the troll factor here seems higher than most places but just as nasty. It's best to feel sorry for them that they have no other life and nothing better to do than try to discredit people sharing information and demanding to know more, as if they had a right, than people want to disclose. You don't need to look very closely to spot the links between the names and posts.

I will say, I'm relieved you're not me and that your wife recognises that, I'm quite happy as I am!


Other than that, I'll leave it for today, so many trolls, nothing worth responding too. Have your fun sad fools.

Barney - Unless I missed it somewhere you haven't even told us what kind of school this is that you have seen these 50 barechested young men performing their PE. Is it a private school or a public one, a boarding school or a comprehensive. It's just 'a school'. You also suggested that all the teachers were the same as the boys too not wearing shirts either.

At school I did my fair share of barechested gym PE quite a lot, but rarely outside and even in the school gym none of my teachers took PE barechested.

I'm not interested in your personal details but if you are unable to see why this line of questioning has taken hold regarding that comment you made then you rather should have been and not greatly offended by it.

If Original Andy is a barrister then I'm King Henry VIII.

Eight in the morning and rattling on like that when most barristers are preparing for a hard days work ahead.

I'm a retired police officer in the Thames Valley force for 34 years and I can spot a jack the lad like you a mile off. I've seen the work of lawyers and the way they talk and operate and your language doesn't fit the profile in any way but what it does remind me of is those really low grade people we used to pull in for questioning who would deflect and try to finger someone else for their own unlawful activities.

I'd also suggest that anyone spending too much time near school gates or fencing without due cause should expect to be asked a question. I remember a case of a school calling us because the same two elderly men were often to be found watching a girls PE lesson through the fence. and it was making them very uncomfortable because nobody knew who they were. A PC from the station made regular patrols in the area and eventually saw these gentlemen and having questioned them both then gave them some sound advice about the effect their behaviour was having. If they had been seen again they would have been brought to the station but that never arose.

Vic on 14th December 2023 at 12:34

But as I've said multiple times, I am not a random gentleman and am connected directly with the school and had you had the courtesy to read what I wrote instead of jumping on the trolls bandwagon you would have known that.

A teacher? A very ignorant one, I'll add you to the troll list which I have no doubt will grow futher.

As a retired school teacher if I had been approached by a random gentleman at the school fence making enquiries about the way pupils were dressed and their changing room arrangements in respect of doing the lesson without a shirt or taking a shower then my suspicions would be raised to very concerned levels about that. I would consider that a very unhealthy obsession for anyone unconnected directly to a school to be having, whether a former pupil or not. In my case I would have immediately asked who the person was and why they wanted such information and been unlikely to give anything.