Burnley Grammar School

Well, Happy New Year everyone.

All quiet on the gymnast front.
Where have all the flowers gone?

Mats have been mentioned. We had green mats that had a sort of meshed black rubber backing, with a green smoother front, perhaps an inch thick. They seemed to be used mostly for landing on after jumping over the wooden horse and then rolling over etc. I don’t ever remember them being placed beneath ropes, which I always hated climbing up as it was so difficult on the arms to get high, and then you still had to get down again.

I remember it being a treat if we were ever allowed to play, ‘Pirates’. It only seemed to happen if we found our Gym teacher was in a good mood, when he would mention it as we went in and we would all cheer, as it was always fun. It seemed to require getting out all the equipment to almost fill the gym, and it seemed to involve a circuit as we all went from one apparatus to another. I can’t remember the principle behind it all, though I’m sure we were divided into two teams and there seemed to be a resulting score somehow achieved with one side winning. Can anyone remember how it went? Perhaps it varied from school to school.

A certain madness seemed to reign leading up to Christmas which was a pity. Perhaps some of the intriguing characters will not return; though it will be interesting to see how the partial ip address appearance affects certain poster’s posts…

Happy new year.

For those interested in the "Royal Liberty" case, I attach, without comment, the latest update:

https://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/23997099.ex-pupil-speaks-royal-liberty-paedophile-teacher-case/

I haven't posted recently because I hadn't much to say and because it's Christmas. It's interesting to read other people's stories. My best wishes for the new year to you all, and to Brian.

I wondered if it was the IP address thing, maybe a lot of people were multiple posters?

It could just be Christmas?

Though if this forum gets back to history talk and all aspects of gym, not just clothing, that's no bad thing.

Too true, Claire. I have been wondering what has happened to "Gerald Baxter"

Ooh! Hasn't it all gone quiet? Where have all the one-time posters gone? Brian has frightened them all away.

Comment by: Chris G on 25th December 2023 at 18:34


An interestig point - in these days of intense Health & Safety, I wonder if they still have rope climbing as art of the main syllabus?. It always seemed even 40+ years ago an especially pointless activity?

We had ropes in both of my secondary school gyms, but I don't remember mats ever being used under them.

Comment by: Michael on 25th December 2023 at 03:30


I think those old coir mats were quite harsh, so I should imagine you could get a graze if you fell on one of them. We had those rubber things and they were not great but less painful, I would imagine. I was lucky and never fell from a rope, though I know one or two lads who did. I should imagine these days, due to health and safety, ifn they are still used, they would have to have adequate floor protection.

At the beginning of a gym session at my old school, one brave boy dared to enquire of the brutish teacher, if he could place coir mats underneath the ropes, in case someone should lose their grip and fall. The thick coconut matting would then reduce their impact and hence any injury.

I was not surprised by the hard-hearted reply, which was that no mats should be placed under the ropes, as the prospect of a hard landing would make it less likely that anyone would let go of the rope in the first place.

I wondered if there was there some kind of fiendish logic to this response; as in all my years at that school, I never fell from the ropes, nor did I ever hear of anyone else doing so.

There must be something in the water in Essex. At the risk of being deemed "too negative", yet another, especially repulsive case of abuse , this time, involving a music teacher, albeit a "private" one:

https://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/24001966.hornchurch-choirmaster-guilty-sexually-abusing-children/

We are forever assured that every effort is made to weed out this sort of individual, we have expensive computer systems, and an apparently extra vigilant police service, yet cases of this sort constantly gets through the net.

The boys in this case are well below an age when they should know about matters of this sort, yet they are let down. Heaven knows the long terms effects this will have on them.

These days you couldn't even get a job as a shelf-stacker in a supermarket without stringent checks, so just how do individuals like this escape attention - until it is too late?

Comment by: Brian (Site owner) on 19th December 2023 at 19:10


I - and I am sure all the genuine posters on this site - are very grateful that you will be adding the details you envisage, to put to bed for once and for all the suggestions I am at least six other posters. I have got tired of denying it.

Comment by: Rob on 19th December 2023 at 19:08

Rob, Though one tried to keep one's feelings under control, I m sure I probably gave away to fellow pupils that I was uncomfortable. I was very small and very skinny for my age, so of course, I got comments, which I found as awkward as the way the lessons were conducted. . I found it a complete trial, as did at least one other pupil who had a very noticeable scar all the way from his chest down to his navel. I understood his embarrassment and I am sure there must still be pupils who feel uncomfortable in these circumstances today.

The reason I asked the question of Nathan today was because I am genuinely interested as to why some lessons are taken covered up and others not, as I assume they take place in the same building, and I assume using basically the same programmes. There was no ulterior motive in the question, I am genuinely interested in the reasoning.

I don't usually get involved with comments but I'll leave a quick message to clarify a few things...

Firstly, this is not a forum nor is it a message board.
I coded the site to be a simple site without the need to register.

Any photo or old ad are open to comments.
These are checked before being added or deleted.

In the near future I will display the last two parts of the IP address of each person that has left a comment. This will still allow anonymity but hopefully deter prolific posters using different names.
The "partial IPs" will be displayed from all future posts (when I implement soon), not historic ones.

Alan you're a classic overthinker aren't you. I don't think you'll find it's anything like the problem you think it is for the majority at school, then or now. Just what was the extent of your won shirtless PE in school then and did you make it obvious to those around you at the time how much you disliked it?

A bit more common sense and respect for each other I hope and a lot more honesty, and if you wish to make claims at least add something a little bit more to back it up for a bit of credibility.

Brian is the moderator/owner/administrator of this website and I'd appreciate some clear advice and comments from you regarding your site please, going forward. It's not too much to ask is it.

Comment by: Nathan Hind on 16th December 2023 at 12:54

Nathan, now that the forum is back to something approaching normal, I'd be interested to have your response to part of your message. This piece:


"This contrasts completely with doing PE indoors where I have autonomy to choose that option and on occasions some of the PE class or the whole class do some PE in a shirtless capacity largely without any incidents about it."

May I ask if you implement this in winter, and when you do it, is it just for younger pupils or older ones as well. I would also be interested to know why you implement it - just on very warm days, or for what reason. You say "largely without any concerns" which suggests there are some.

I would have thought it would be more difficult to implement when it is not a normal day to day happening, so the lads can't be expecting it. Is it a form of punishment?.

No ulterior motive in the questions, I assure you. I am just interested to understand the reasoning behind it.

Comment by: Toby on 18th December 2023 at 22:13


When you think about it, Toby, all those feet, or plimsoles that had been on those mats, it is no wonder they smelt disgusting, and of course the weight of the pupils over time would compress the fibres (or whatever they are) in the mats. I remember ours were a grey colour and had the dirt of years on them.

As regards the ropes, as we are back in the "one size fits all" routine, I think PE teachers forgot (and probably still do) that there are some people who have a genuine fear of heights. - we had one lad who was terrified of them, and some people laughed, but everyone has some kind of hang-up about something. My only problem with them was that I knew our Mr R was standing underneath them, looking up to make sure nobody was breaking his "no underpants rule". I suppose my hang-up was , and is , being humiliated. Still, I musn' t go on about that as our Rumpole will think I am being negative again!

Did anyone ever fall onto the mat? I'm not totally convinced they were much better than the floor!

Had a very particular rubbery, powdery smell too.

And I hated climbing the ropes. I was no good at it and kept burning my palms.

PC Pleb must go down as one of the mildest insults I've ever had and I've faced names even a grown man would blush at. The trouble with people like you is you think you are cleverer than you actually are. I've seen it so many times. I started out as a PC but was a detective for many years too. You pull people in and ask questions and they think they have all bases covered and have all the answers and we know they're just digging ever deeper, even with legal advice on hand. The arrogance of thinking you are cleverer than you really are is always the downfall. Criminals always think like that, and clearly so do online forum jokers and pests. The insulting comments are just like water off a ducks back to me, been there heard a hundred times worse in the real world before.

I'd also like to point out that a check through will show I've been a regular but not frequent contributor to this history section going back some considerable time and have even taken issue directly with Alan on occasion.

There is a charge on statute that is known as a 'Section 90' of impersonating a police officer. If there was a charge of impersonating anybody else, PC Pleb here would feel quite confident in pressing them against you. If nothing else you've caused a breach of the online peace for all to witness.

Original Andy - 17th December 2023 at 18.41

-Tomorrow morning, we are off for our winter break in Finland so I will be away for a couple of weeks. May I suggest that everyone starts to play nicely while I’m away-



Almost sounds like the moderator talking to his thread this bit.

I'm sure we are all very pleased you're off on holiday.

Well, well, what a weekend.

I first see that PC Pleb who would appear to be Alan’s best mate and who made an abusive post about me on Thursday afternoon, rapidly supported by Alan has absented himself from further discussion. After all, a new poster must immediately have more credibility and knowledge than someone who has posted here on and off for years when they agree with Alan and disagree with me.

Then over the weekend I see a number of posts pointing out the error of the criticisms people have been subject to, with quotes of what they originally said demonstrating that but we see a barrage of responses accusing them of saying what those complaining maintain they said even in the wake of evidence. I hate situations like this, it’s so easy to see who is lying, I much prefer to pull it apart more slowly and let the lies be exposed one by one, making the author of them ever more confident that they are right but letting the jury see that they are building one lie on top of another. It’s fun to watch, barristers like a laugh just like anyone else.

Then we have the usual round of protests that Alan is not using multiple names but the regime of posting does suggest something different. At the same time, he maintains that others are posting under multiple names to the point of being obsessed by it. You do have to wonder why this obsession. Is it simply that there can only be one person on the entire planet who doesn’t agree with his thinking? Or is it possible that multiple people disagree with his view of the world? I’d put my money on the latter. I’ve lost count of the number of people I’m supposed to have been over the years and I am none of them.

Rightly I see a number of people questioning the integrity of comments on the site and I agree, no login is most unusual these days and it comes from a time when I think, people on line were more trustworthy. Sadly, that has changed.

What I don’t think that many know is that when you post on line, you leave a trail. It’s quite a specific trail and unique to you. The odds on it being confused with anyone else are about the same as a DNA match with another person. You will have similarities to family members but the actual trail will be unique to you. There are ways of seeing this trail and indeed some members of the legal profession have access to it, not that I am one of them.

I mentioned my wife in recent days. She was very interested to find that she was supposed to be married to an eighty three year old, retired school master and living in France. She wasn’t aware of it and believed she lived in Hertfordshire with a barrister who is a long way short of eighty three and the father of her children. She was quite offended by what she termed the ‘Alangations’ made about her husband. Anyway, my wife is a solicitor and she practices with a firm in Waltham Abbey (which I’m not going to name and I’m not naming her either), that specialises in looking at harassment on the internet and which brings cases where appropriate in both the criminal and civil court. The firm does have access to search tools that reveal lots of information.

Over this weekend, she showed me the detail on my posts here, the time I had taken to make them, the browser I was using, the OS of the device, the means of connection i.e. wi-fi and if so the location of the connection, on mobile network and there even if it was 4G or 5G and of course the mobile service provider along with more information that I didn’t understand and too much of it to recount.

I found it all fascinating and of course the download didn’t just demonstrate things about me and it covered the last three months. A longer search could cover more time, this was a small snapshot. This data is around for years or some I’m told by experts. A very small number of posts stood out on the list immediately, the best and clearest example was from the Finisterre region of France, indeed a small town in the west of Finisterre, all made from the same computer, all using the same internet service provider which I will not name for obvious reasons. No surprises there and I hope you don’t mind me pointing this out Sir, it was the most obvious unique example of the data.

Others stood out because they were made between midnight and 06.00 but of course they were not as unique as the ones cited above but the job of matching up the DNA of the posts to what is appearing on the site is time consuming but also quite easy to do. Everyone who posts here can be traced and multiple posts using different names can be matched, if you like, your name is a minor detail in the endgame of your ID. If the abuse here continues, I will ask that the data starts to be matched and there may be some people who might find a genuine version of PC Plod calling because systematic abuse is an offence and some of what has been said so far is defamation.

Tomorrow morning, we are off for our winter break in Finland so I will be away for a couple of weeks. May I suggest that everyone starts to play nicely while I’m away and if you are posting under multiple names, I really do suggest you stop because you will be found out very quickly and deceit always has consequences as figures in public life in the UK are finding out at the moment. There are plenty of positive things that can be discussed here and a wealth of information looking backwards.

May I suggest that EVERYONE now takes a few days break from posting here and lets things cool down a bit and then comes back with something pleasant and positive to say?

Happy Christmas to everyone and I mean you too Alan, perhaps lead by example from here on?

Alan
It wasn't 'Gerry' - it was 'Gerald' ...

Gerry - 0350 Sunday is not Saturday night, and Roy has already told you he is not me..

It seems to me some people are very confused - it is a bit like "Mr Chips" yesterday evening -who we are given to believe is a school teacher of 42 years standing twice accusing me of "slander:" when he mean libel.

The owner/moderator of this site could put a stop to all this nonsense today, if he so wished, by doing what I have now asked him twice to do, and confirm my unique web address is not that of the other six to eight people some like you think I am. I even wrote privately to his email address and failed to get the courtesy of a reply. I have given my email address, what more can I do to prove I am who I say I am.

A ;roper system of registration is needed to put a stop to all these fantasies. The sooner the better.

On the question of 'Moderators' ... FWIW - I'm an 'Admin' on one Facebook group and a 'senior member' on another. These are 'specialist' groups - not groups you can 'just walk into'. New members are welcomed and treated 'with respect', but the same 'respect' is required in return. Anyone who gets 'stroppy' or thinks they 'know everything' (or 'timewasters') with be gently 'sat upon', but help is 'freely given'.

I'm also a 'senior member' on another (same subject) groups which is a 'free-for-all' - the same rules apply - we have no problems with 'human' trolls (if we did - they would, I suggest, be shown the door). We have had trouble in recent time with 'troll-bots', which are obvious to all - we tell the site owner and he deletes the posts. We have discussed making the site 'password-protected' the owner hasn't gone down that line yet because we want to be 'welcoming' - in a specialist hobby with an ageing membership we are mindful over these things.

Being a moderator is not an easy thing - I agree with Chris G's comment of 09.07 this morning.

Unfortunately there now seem to be so many people posting now, and most of what they seem to be doing is trading insults that its impossible to keep up with them. Sad to say, some of these seem to be 'fantasies' - I say no more on this.

Its a pity and I dislike saying it, but this site is 'broken'.

TH

Thank you, Roy, for coming forward to confirm that you are not me (and you wouldn't want to be, let me assure you!). I invite anybody on this board to go back through my posts - you will note that I NEVER post between 9 p.m. and round about 3 in the morning. As I have previously mentioned I am an insomniac, and I switch off my computer by 9 p.m. to get some shut eye. I know you have only my word for that, and as I am so "vile" I could be lying, but I am not.

I think we have now all had more than enough of "Chips" and his bare-backside caning's, but I just want to make it clear why I take exception to his attitude. This is part of a VERY long post on 12th August, and the offending remarks come in his response to James (there had been a previous, somewhat approving, reference to one posters father using a strap on the poor lad)

Comment by: Mr Chips on 12th December 2023 at 20:58





"James on 12th December 2023 at 17:38



In answer to your question to me, four was normal but as I've said previously, the power of my arm may have varied. As a star pupil, you would certainly have felt my wrath translated into sting. The ultimate sanction, 'next time it will be on your bare bottom'. It was much more of a threat than something ever carried out indeed the only time I did it consistently was if a sixth former had been caught bullying a younger boy and that might have happened once a year if that.

Remember the Victorians replaced the birch with the cane and one of the reasons why was that Victorians were very socially conservative, the birch did not work through trousers but the cane was very effective so the birch lost favour and the cane replaced it. You could make the cane sting sufficiently so the whole thing about bare was just to add a threat and a different dimension to the punishment.

Very occasionally I would do it to a younger boy who had done the same thing persistently like not do homework, I would issue the threat and if a further occasion occurred then I would carry it out and deliver two quite light but absolutely stinging strokes which would fade in about half an hour. He would forget that but not having to drop his trousers and underpants which would act as an equal deterrent to the cane."




As I am not that old, I do not know whether bare backside caning's was a norm, certainly not in the sort of school I attended, where there was a restraint placed on schools actions by local authorities, I dare say private schools had their own methods, given the number of masochists still around, but just consider those last few lines: "I would carry it out and deliver two quite light but absolutely stinging strokes which would fade in about half an hour. He would forget that but not having to drop his trousers and underpants which would act as an equal deterrent to the cane."

Are you surprised that somebody, like myself, who are against violence and humiliation should take offence at such a brazen admission of cruelty and attempts to humiliate - and can it just be me who sees the pleasure the writer gets i recounting it. Ad the "crime" for which this extreme measure was applied? - forgetting homework.


Despite "Chips" suggesting I am distorting his words, this is what he chose to write, and I frankly find it disgusting. I am just glad he is retired so he can inflict no more of his damage on boys.

Tell me - I am REALLY that vile for deploring humiliation and un-necessary violence from an adult to a kid?. In what way am I sick or obsessed?.

I had a rotten time at school - as did many of my fellow pupils. It would be nice in middle age to think that some of those teachers who applied it might regret their behaviour, but it is clear from some individuals on here they are not, and I suspect they never did.

Steve on 16th December 2023 at 23:11
Roy on 16th December 2023 at 23:35
Alan on 17th December 2023 at 03:50

All waiting around on a Saturday night with nothing better to do than respond to Barney's post and you want us to believe that you are not all the same person?

Dream on.

Mike, Will and anyone else interested:

At the foot of each page, after a lot of scrolling, you will find half a dozen links leading to a background to the site, rules of behaviour , copyright policy etc, including one giving the email address of the site owner. Basically, this not a free-for-all discussion forum in the currently accepted sense of the term, but a lovingly curated archive of nostalgic photographs related to life in England in years gone by.

Comment by: Barney on 16th December 2023 at 21:44


Well, if nothing else, "Mr. Chis" is certainly prescient - he suggested you would have more to so say and boy - was he right!. You have an enormous amount to say.

Why didn't you go the whole hog and suggest I am "bile" o as "Dr. Hugh" (Dr Who?) suggests that I am certifiably mentaly ill.

If you seriously believe I am everybody who has difficulty beleiving some of what you have said, than I feel very sorry for you.

You can say anything you like about me - I don't care. The rantings of somebody who is unknown and completely anonymous to me, is like water off a ducks back.

My ONLY objection is to the frequent use of the word "cancer". I lost most of my family and several friends to that terrible illness. It is an entirely inappropriate word to use.

Strangely enough, your pal "Mr. Chips" used EXACTLY the same word yesterday.

Odd that.....

Comment by: Cliff on 16th December 2023
Question - when did you last see an 83 year old man jogging, never mind doing so in just his shorts and trainers with a bare chest, and in the winter time as well?


Comment by: Daz1970 on 4th December 2023
Is that post that was left here on Sunday lunchtime meant to be some kind of gigantic P take out of the comments Craig leaves on here about his bareskin running whatsapp group, because it somehow reads and feels like it to me.



Just what I was thinking. I'm sure there is a sophisticated and far too clever by half wind up going on. Just call it a hunch.