Burnley Grammar School

Talk of black balling, something new to me that, takes me back to the threats we always used to get of being egged and floured on our birthdays. Along with head flushing in the toilets. All these rumours swept around even before I began at secondary school, seemingly from older brothers and sisters of others I presume. I never ended up seeing anyone receive that kind of "treatment" on their birthday or at any other time, so my question is did anyone here ever get this or see others get egged and floured or flushed, or even worse is anyone prepared to admit doing this to someone? What is the general view about this and was it mostly just a wild rumour that swept schools at one period of time that ultimately amounted to very little in reality?

"In my professional life I have access to software that recognises similar writing styles. So many of the posts supporting your stance seem to be written by you."

Come on then Andy we're all waiting for your professional verdict. Perhaps Devon Lad can instead. I notice you swerved his question.

Reading the posts on blackballing brought back a memory of me having it done when I was 17 and had started on the railway as a railway engine cleaner, the first step on the ladder to being a driver, you basically did cleaning in and around the shed of spilt coal and cinders and climbed up and cleaned steam engines with a bucket of oil and a pile of rags, being the new boy I was chased around the sheds and eventually cornered, debagged and had thick oil and coal dust rubbed around my genitals, you had to take it then, or be called a wuss, it was an initiation ceremony which I would think be outlawed now.

Hugh, Good to hear from you again. I remember your very inteesting contributions a while back. I certainly agree that the best thing to do, if you were a victim of blackballing, was to lie back, let it happen and laugh it off. Resistance was pointless. Worst thing by far was removing shoe polish from pubic hair.

I haven't stopped by here for some time but I'm amused to see black balling referred to.

I was a navy medic back in the day and it certainly happened there often enough. It particularly happened to recruits either in selection - both officers and men or around occasions like a birthday or when a lad was going off to get married.

In those days - 1970s, group medicals were the norm with all the lads lined up naked for checks and it wasn't unusual to see that several had been black-balled for the occasion. I would say it was done and taken in good humour though from the medic's point of view, in a world where gloves were not the norm, checking black-balls did mean you got quite a bit of polish on your hands! Doing something for which gloves were issued, you usually only had one for the group anyway so you would have spread the polish around!

I was black-balled a few times, the best thing to do was lie back and let it happen because you could never win the fight. You just made sure you had plenty of polish ready when it was your mates turns.

I know some will find it in bad taste but we laughed at the time and it did no harm though it was best not to wear (white) underpants for a few days afterwards until you got all the polish off.

This below is an A+ from me.

Comment by: Mike on 23rd May 2022 at 15:23
The irony to me is that perhaps one of the most honest people who has submitted on this forum has been accused of being one of the most dishonest.

I see Alan has stormed off again.

Give it a month.

Nick, You are exactly right: black shoe polish applied to the genitals with a brush, usually at night-time when the cadets are on their own and wearing the least clothing.
Robbie, I wouldn't say that Alan did anything wrong, but he seemed to find it hard to accept the good faith of anyone who described in positive terms an experience he would have found negative.

William what is this 'ball blacking' ritual you mentioned? It seems hard to google a proper explanation. For some reason when I read your post the immediate thing that came into my mind, as you mentioned army nudity, was that it involved putting black boot polish on mens scrotums. Am I close or way out on that. I know the army is capable of some very odd initiations. If I'm right then I must have read it somewhere and it lodged in my sub conscious.

I'm looking forward to seeing the results of that software analysis published here. Just don't take as long as Sue Gray about it.

Can somebody tell me exactly what Alan has said or done wrong please? You know, a few specifics to pore over.

The irony to me is that perhaps one of the most honest people who has submitted on this forum has been accused of being one of the most dishonest.

¯\_(?)_/¯

Andy.

You said in your profession you have access to programs that allow definition of writing styles. I know something about this subject myself.

This is all about "Stylometry", which is kind of like a fingerprint, although it's never bolted on accurate.

What is the name of the software you use because I'm a software engineer and developer working from home. Nearly all software of this nature is primarily intended for trying to determine those authors who have been known to plagiarise other people's work. Generally speaking the software is designed to work with a minimum of 5,000 to 10,000 words and isn't considered overly reliable at anything less than a few thousand, which would rule out anything such as brief forum style commenting which accounts for words in the hundreds, not multiple thousands.

For one example it can sometimes be used in the examination process for those at universities who have been known to lift large chunks of text and pass it off as their own, although it would only be considered if there were very strong concerns and isn't something that would be initiated randomly just for the sheer sake of doing it on a casual basis.

There are some free ones out there and also some half decent paid for versions. What do you use and how do you use it, have you used it here for example? I wouldn't consider anything too reliable on the text amounts generated by this forum but sometimes you can hit the jackpot when someone who maybe mis-spells a word in an unusual way does so in what would be highly unlikely to have been done by two different people.

Around ten years ago I did some work on this for Penguin and Hearst Publishing.

I know it's off topic but it would be good to hear your thoughts.

Mark: Let me assure you I am NOT Andy, and as I provided an email address, you have your remedy - get Andy to supply his. Some of the ridiculous suggestions made make me realise it is not me who needs to grow up, but I ahve had enough of it. I have told the truth about my experiences but some of you choose not to believe me. Fair enough, that is your right. I find it boring to keep reading about nude swimming and jockstraps, so I will leave you all to get on with it. I won't bother to post any longer, as some of you like to think if we don't share your rosy memories we are trolls or lying. Go through life with your blinkers on and I wish you joy.

If I may follow on from the Maypole memories earlier down the forum.

I went to an outdoor event at Brunel Field Primary over the weekend and we watched the children using the Maypole that school has had for a number of years. Many of the children took turns and did a number of routines lasting around about half an hour. They all looked very smart and happy doing it and brought a lot of joy top everyone watching. It should be a compulsory part of the school curriculum in that case.

I think Andy and Alan both raise questions here. Both seem to be somewhat troll lite to this site and maybe a schizoid vibe going on and Andy and Alan are the same person arguing with themselves. Either way if neither of you, or just 'you' can bring anything other than petty bickering to this forum maybe you could just give your keyboard a rest. Grow up FFS, what age are you supposed to be.

Andy - name them please if you are informed as you say and with any evidential back up because that is something a few of us I'm sure would like to know. Thanks.

I can sympathise with Dave Ingles. I was tall and thin and embarrassed first time in the showers but quickly got used to the sort of nudity that was common at boys' schools in the '60s.
It helped me cope with the potentially humiliating initiation ritual for cadets who were at summer camp for the first time. Most humiliation by boys on boys involves some nudity, as we've heard. The ritual was ball-blacking. Years later the MoD paid compensation to ex-cadets who experienced it.
I couldn't pretend it did me any harm. The no-nonsense, just get on with it, attitude at school helped me but I do appreciate that some boys may have hated it, although no-one ever said so.

Alan, the evidence is in your posts. In my professional life I have access to software that recognises similar writing styles. So many of the posts supporting your stance seem to be written by you.

Back in February 1983 I had a severe asthma attack while playing football on the school pitch and collapsed flat out on my back during a PE lesson. My teacher more or less ignored me for a few moments and it was my great friends that made him take proper notice, get my inhaler and allow me to recover and get me comfortable.

Fast forward to October 1984, the same teacher had another asthma attack happen in the school gym taking a girls lesson. Instead of an ambulance he got her into a staff members car and they raced to the close by doctors surgery where she finally collapsed in the waiting room and passed away at just fifteen just as the school day was ending. Her brother was in my class and on the pitch with me the day I had my own attack.

If it hadn't been for my friends on the pitch with me I could have gone the same way as that young girl did who was my classmates sister did.

You can well imagine what we both ended up thinking of PE teachers and that one in particular. Their ignorance and lack of knowledge on such matters was literally breathtaking, pun well and truly intended.

This reminds me of that time some of us will have had during break time where a fight broke out between two boys and someone had to pull them apart. Sometimes fellow class or more often than not a teacher did the deed.

I actually think your suggestion is a good one Alan, best to take any personal antagonism off the public forum and say it privately as you have allowed others access to your email and they can do that. That's only fair I agree.

An apt time to dip back in. I wasn't going to make a comment today but I'd like to ask a genuine question to you Alan, not with any intent of catching you out or anything like that. If you would like to remind yourself of my background then look back to 10th April when I placed one of my earliest comments.

Obviously you find your childhood quite difficult and school played a large part of that. You clearly have much that you find rather painful to recall and that is familiar to me with people I've often talked with face to face. I'd genuinely like to know what makes you return and make comments on this history board when it involves so much that seems to distress you. I'm not trying to trip you up over anything, just interested in what your personal motivation for using this particular outlet is, as I looked further back and saw what you placed here. I have noticed that you are one of the minority who sometimes leaves a personal contact detail, is that because you are trying to reach out in some way and do you have any luck in doing so?

If you do not wish to answer that's understandable. We are all psychological beings, all with our strengths and flaws and our characters all vary widely even if we go through the very same experiences together, such as going to school or being brought up in the same household.

The attitude of Dave Ingles is the kind I always love reading about.

Andy. I find your comments downright insulting and somewhat cowardly as you make accusations with no evidence. That is because there is none. I seem to remember you were accusing everybody a few weeks ago who didn't agree with you as psychologically flawed. It seems to me you have problems in that department of your own. You will find my email address on this message, so if you have any further comments to make, have the decency to address them to me instead of hiding on anonymous posts.

All,

People who post here from time to time all know Alan has some serious psychological problems for which he should receive professional help. Instead he posts here as Alan and one or two more name always being the victim of some terrible abuse he supposedly suffered as a child that no sane man would recognise as abuse and it was also in a different age where not every adult was an abuser. Give him a wide berth please.

So it was like this for me. I was stick thin build, not much on me and no more than average height, maybe a touch less so. I didn't stack up the well against everyone down below either and took plenty of stick for it that used to flare up now and again when I'd shower and change and all that usual teenage stuff of school p.e. I put up with most of it with a forced smile. But one thing I was great at was running, both short and long distance. I came first quite often and was on the school team. Because of this it completely countered all the p*ss taking I sometimes got over what I was born like, which actually was just a normal lad really when I look back but you can be left doubting it in the cruelty of the school yard, changing area or showers. At least my athletic ability gave me the chance to shut people up when they went on and on at me. Coming first or nearly first answered all those who thought they were somehow better than me just because they were build bigger or had a longer d*ck. I've self censored that. Ultimately I feel I had the bigger balls than those guys.

I loved that phrase "don't be the victim, be the victor". Absolutely spot on.

Worth highlighting the following line I think;

Comment by: Andre on 19th May 2022 at 18:10
Any humiliation was what the teacher and kids said to you but not the mere act of showing up in just your shorts in itself.

Clearly very prickly Alan, you didn't read closely what I said either did you. Just chill man!

Don't be the victim - be the victor.

In an ideal world where nobody said anything negative and all was friendly and full of positive encouragment would you still have found your situation humiliating just for being asked to wear a shorts only kit Alan? Is your view that being asked to do PE like that is the humiliation itself, just so I'm clear.

We come in all kinds of shapes and sizes and I defy anyone to say they didn't compare themselves with others around them either favourably or unfavourably. It's automatic.

Every single school seems to have its clique of undesirables doesn't it, those who just love to make others feel bad about themselves. The story Richard told from the swim lesson really makes the blood boil because you just know that those three louts who did that probably thought it was one big lark and funny in their own warped minds and yet 27 others had to suffer the consequences even if they got booted out of school.

I wonder how many adults are ever prepared to admit to being school bullies, not too many I bet you, wasn't there someone on here recently who met one in denial at a reunion or something.

Andre: I will be kind and suggest to you, that you did not bother to read my last post. My teacher habitually made remarks about me (and one other lad - me for being too thin the other for being overweight) on a regular basis, every week - if you do not think that is humiliaing for a self conscious teenager, frankly there is no point in talking to you. Have a nice life.