Burnley Grammar School

Gareth J: The word "intactivist" is a word the movement or organisation in America, picked themselves:

https://intactivist.org/about/

As I am not a doctor, I would have no reason, purpose or desire to inspect boys private parts, and no, as I said previously, I wouldn't wish to inflict my views on others. I would aim to give unbiased advice, and there ARE men who do suffer from problems like phimosis, which can lead to paraphimosis, which is life threatening, or balanitis, that can cause infections, which should be dealt with but is often not. To me that is a bit like having decayed teeth and not visiting the dentist.

Some of the stunts that the Intactivist movement go to, in addition to calling men and boys "mutilated" include, for example, standing at the entrance to maternity homes in America, en masse, wearing doctors coats with a large circle of red paint round the genital area, signifying blood. I don't know if you agree, but it seems totally over the top behaviour.

Gavin mentioned radio schools broadcasts - they used to go out every weekday from 11 to 12 and from 2 till 3 in the afternoons. Some days there was also a radio assembly programme that went out between 9 and 9,30. They were on Radio 4. They suddenly stopped just before the TV ones.

Well at least you answered me Alan, thanks for that but I really didn't like your use of the word "intactivists", whether that's your own word description or one used elsewhere on the subject. You wouldn't wish to inflict it on others you said but if you yourself were a school doctor you'd be one of those who the other guys on here mentioned stepping way over the mark throwing their own zealotry, a good word that was used, at parents and their school age sons wouldn't you. It's one American import I'm glad us Brits haven't indulged in and most of the men on here will still have what they were born with although it seems a someone wasn't so lucky at school and a couple of others had a near miss. Quite why some school doctors thought they had the authority to be looking over boys willies I don't know, never mind recommending invasive procedures so casually. Anybody would think these people couldn't access their own family doctor in most cases on this. I mean we are not talking 2022 are we, when they are now impossible to get hold of. Would you really be happy living in a country where every newborn male is chopped? Repulsive. I'm shocked this is still a subject up for discussion in this day and age for anything other than last resort medical imperative.

Why the passion on this, well I'm the middle of three brothers. My older one now 48 was chopped at age five and always wanted to look the same as us other two and I know it was a negative for him. Guys do care Alan, don't deny that. When as young adults we asked why he was done only and not us other two all my parents said was they didn't really know for sure and that the clinic he went to at the time said it would be for the best and they arranged it on the spot and they later regretted it and vowed not to do the same again. I am eternally thankful of that.

My middle school had a "maypole" and we used it as a part of our music lesson. We did it for our (mostly) mums one afternoon, probably was May time, to the Madonna song, La Isla Bonita. I remember doing it a lot during one academic school year only and not again, must have been possibly 1986-87 as I must have been around about or coming up to ten. We danced to pre-recorded music although the lady who took us, Mrs Kingsley, was the school head music teacher who played piano for assembly. She had us change out of our school clothes into our PE bits when doing it so we were all in shorts and barefooted I know that for sure, because that was my middle school kit. Boys didn't always wear tops in middle school PE but we definitely always did when we danced the maypole. No fancy clothes unfortunately. It's amusing that I always think of doing this as a music lesson in school whereas others look at it as a part of their PE class and some just think of it as country dancing.

It's amazing how similar some off the memories of this actually are because one of the things that strongly comes to me is it seemed a very heavy pole, or at least the base part was, and that it was always a handful of boys picked out to grab it and stick it wherever it was going, and like others have said too it was done both inside and outside. It seemed to be one of the few things we did at school in a physical sense that both boys and girls combined to do together with each other and most had a good time doing it I think. It's really cute to think that so many of us in our separate independent locations across the country were doing this and behaving in such a similar way dancing with ribbons. Someone mentioned the 'spider' but I think what they meant was the 'spider's web' which was quite a good but tricky ribbon arrangement that didn't just wind tightly around the pole but made a proper web structure and once done the knack and hardest part was reversing it and unwinding it all successfully again without making a hash of it and getting tied up too much. I've probably forgotten a lot more about this than I'm actually remembering. But like someone else said of their school, our Mrs Kingsley took her music maypole class quite seriously and took no nonsense when instructing us. I remember plenty of cock ups from those with a lack of co-ordination skills. It all seemed to come quite easily to me.

Great days. Who says it's just a school kids thing? I'd love to give it a go all over again and I'm 45 on June 1st!

On the question of Morris Dancing - it thrives with mens and ladies teams (not too sure about mixed) and with 'youngsters' getting very much involved.

I don't 'do' Morris myself but it (and its derivatives: rapper, longsword, molly, etc) are all good aerobic exercise and an excellent way of learning team-work.

To see Morris in 'full flow' visit any Folk Festival such as Whitby, Sidmouth or Broadstairs.

At Crossley Street Primary school Maypole dancing was a very regular springtime feature from my very earliest schooldays on the cusp of the 70s into 80s. School did a couple of Mayday parades including us dancing the Maypole with parental invites to watch us. I remember helping put all the plastic chairs outside for them to watch. Mostly think we only did it if 1st May was an actual schoolday, which it was in 1979-81. I have some old Kodak slides my parents took. We dressed up in posh fancy dress style costumes but I can't remember where they seemed to come from. But if we were doing Maypole dancing in class as part of a bog standard lesson we seemed to just do it in our regular P.E clothes. I remember when not used the Maypole was always stuck in a corner behind the school TV which was on a tall stand beside the climbing frame and all the other P.E equipment at the side of the main hall. I've a sneaky feeling we might have used it at other times in the year too. I quite enjoyed it. We had no record player but one of those tape machines with two large tape spools going around, the same thing we used to listen to recorded schools programmes that I'm sure came from the radio at the time. I wonder if Maypole was more popular in schools in particular parts of the country? Mine was Wetherby in a similar part of the country, not too far and same county I think as Peter's clip from the 60s.

I may be wrong but why do I get the feeling that there is probably hardly a school in the country nowadays that is doing this dancing around the Maypole, although it's just a hunch I've no proof of that. This got me thuinking about Morris dancing that I haven't seen around for year either that used to be quite a common thing at various carnival, fetes etc over summer months.

On the subject of scrutiny Jim, as I mentioned proof above, it's worth bearing in mind this great quote from the late astronomer & astrophysisist Carl Sagan who said;

'Extraodinary claims require exraordinary proof'.

Keeping up the dancing theme - this coming Saturday - May 7th is 'Helston Flora Day'.
At 9.50 the (well-scrubbed) children of the town will dance through the streets:
(Quote) Over 1200 Children from Helston’s four schools, all dressed in white with headdresses and ties representing each of the schools, will commence from Wendron Street and process up and then down Meneage Street turning into Church Street and Cross Street. Dancing around the gardens of Penhellis before progressing down Tanyard Lane to Lady Street. Dancing down the pavement of Coinagehall Street, the dance circles the Bowling Green before ending by dancing up the centre of Coinagehall Street (Ends)

https://www.youtube.co/watch?v=DH4UMb9Y5bo

The recent post by Ambrose doesn't bear up to serious scrutiny does it.

There are no legitimate reasons and don't use the past as cover to pretend otherwise.

Born much more recently than some here in '82 I only started school in 1987 but we had maypole dancing in both my first & middle schools which were within the same boundary fence with shared playing field but separate playgrounds. The long white seemed about 20ft high at a guess and got heaved to and fro between both schools when wanted. It seemed popular for the 8/9 year age group mostly so I think I used it into the start of the 90's. We had pre-recorded accordian style country music playing from a tape in a large school owned ghetto blaster, which was not the kind of sound you expect out of one of those things.

I found it fun to deliberatly wind boys up the wrong way on purpose with the ribbon I held but then even at that age I had my anarchic side. We took it outside onto the playground on one occasion but otherwise it stayed inside. I can't remember what we wore doing it, nothing too grand like the You Tube video that's for sure. I think we just kicked our normal leather school shoes off and then did it in our normal clothes much of the time. Obviously Maypole proved more popular than we all ever knew, although I hated the thing if I'm being honest ansd the music with it was dire.

So many memories of the Maypole. I didn't expect to generate so many. Thankyou Peter for your sweet clip, the children look like they made a bit of effort with the costumes, especially the girls there and the boys looked clean and tidy in all that pristine white. A lovely piece of old sixties cine film.

One of my YT vid clips Laura which I hope answers your Maypole question - this comes from 1965.

https://youtu.be/BaUA6Rt0cug

Okay so 1980 through to 1983 in my Somerset juniors we had maypole as well which was combined into country dancing kind of stuff with p.e as one extended lesson during early summer term at this time of year so I always think of this as part of my p.e lessons in junior schooldays. If the weather was rubbish we'd do it inside in the main school hall, sometimes even in our large dining room with the tables cleared where the pole nearly scraped the ceiling but if the weather was really lovely teacher got about six boys to lay it lengthways and carry it outside onto the grass but you had to be careful placing it as it could wobble on uneven ground outside and it fell over once, but mostly down to boys pulling at it too hard. Our junior p.e lesson was black leotards for the girls and some navy shorts for the boys, nothing on our feet even on the grass at all and the boys were not expected to have any top to put on doing any of this, which some people might get a bit funny about nowadays I suppose and I was a bit shy myself being made to exercise like that with girls at age seven/eight/nine/ten or thereabouts. This was how we danced the maypole, did movement and music, exactly the same as proper p.e. Like the other person said, it seemed quite energetic once you got stuck into it and was equal to any other proper physical exercise we got told to do in juniors. Some were really good at it and others never quite got the hang of it and it wouldn't surprise me to think the girls were better with it as I'm sure maypole dancing embarrassed one or two boys skipping away as we were. Boys like to run not skip don't they.

I can back up what GBBGG says here. I saw this yestreday and spoke to an old aunt of mine who was at school throughout most of the 50's and she said she did Maypole dancing in the middle of that decade between the ages of 8 -10. She described doing something called 'the spider' with the ribbons and other patterns and said she really liked doing it and that a music teacher would sometimes be in the corner on the school piano playing various tunes while they danced around it in their shorts and vest tops.

Maypole dancing in schools certainly goes back into the 50s when Country Dancing also appeared.

Back in 1947 the Schools Broadcasting Service was introduced which included 'Music & Movement' (“Children, I’d like you to be like a flower-bud pushing up through the earth before opening your petals in the sunlight”). This led on to Country (and Maypole) Dancing.

(Country Dancing - aka Folk Dancing - is a fine cardio-vascular exercise, bringing in agility and the need to train yourself to do things without much thinking. If you disbelief this, go to a Ceilidh that offers 'Folk Rock' and join in)

Country Dancing. that brings back memories of junior School. If I recall correctly the lessons were taken by our headmistress. we dance to music played on a record player(remember them??)

I like the "Maypole" memories here although I never did it. I feel like I missed out now and would have loved to try it.

Yet another pre-teen school maypoler here. I did this a couple of times only but seemed to watch others doing it more than doing it myself. Definitely a middle school pastime, not something you could really imagine doing at senior school level that's for sure. I think it was more fun deliberately trying to tie it up in knots until you got stuck, or something like that. It's been a while since I ever thought about it. Thanks for reminding me!

Another maypole user here, circa approx 1976-7ish. Outside on the tarmac playground in games kit sometimes or normal dress, and I reckon that we used it more than just in May as it came under country dancing lessons. Anyone remember them?

Did any of the older ones on here do this maypole in school the 50s or 60s or was it something that suddenly became a bit of a thing in the 70s and if so why was that?

Yes, we had the Maypole at school too at our primary Laura. One teacher always appeared to have control of the Maypole and nobody else even looked at it. Despite the fact that in our PE we wore nice white plimsoll shoes with socks, shorts and a top in our school hall for our classes at that age, when this teacher who never took PE lessons brought the Maypole out she insisted we danced around it barefoot on the dusty floor and it was the only time I was like that in primary. I didn't like that very much. She was a short tempered woman who used to rant at boys with no co-ordination who got the ribbons all tied up wrongly. The girls in class just seemed better at it and it was done as a combined boys and girls activity together. It was a bit of fun for about five minutes but she took it very seriously and one year we danced around the Maypole at a school Mayday fete in front of all our parents outside early one Saturday afternoon having practised a few times in the week in school. Quite a few years later funnily enough I went to use my old school hall to vote in the May local elections and the same Maypole was sitting in a corner looking as if it might have been out for use around about the turn of the millennium period. It seems quite quaint looking back.

Laura,I remember the Maypole dancing that we had at school in the 70's/80's, that we had with the girls.We all dressed up and the boys wore those satin shorts that were popular at the time,

Gareth J: I did say that when a child reaches an age when he can experience fear or embarrassment, parents should make their own decision - in consultation with the child. Too often, professionals phrase "advice" as if it were a command.

I was using America (and Israel, come to that) as an example of a universal procedure that doesn't upset very many adults - there are, of course "Intactavists" especially in America, with their frequent complaints about "mutilation" etc, which seems extreme. Most of the men thus treated do not regard themselves as "mutilated".

As I said it would save pain and embarrassment at a later age, which seems not uncommon, and seems a good procedure for hygiene. That is just my personal view of course, I wouldn't wish to inflict it on others.

Laura, I'm going to say a 70s/80s thing was maypole dancing in school PE I was at primary in the early 90s and certainly never did maypole dancing. Could have just been the location of the school been close to the city we weren't blessed with many fields to dance on. I have seen photos of it happening in other country schools seems to be done in either uniform and bare feet or indoor PE kit and it does look like it could have been a fun activity

Alan you talk of 'if it were a universal procedure', when answering others about overreaching doctors in the schools of the distant past diagnosing boys for the chop on the end of their willies. I'm getting a bit of a vibe here that you are kind of sympathetic to that whole thing. What a horrible thought that something like that could be done to everyone by default. How does that square with your frequent concerns about abusive adults towards the young Alan? What could be a greater abuse of half the young population than what you appear to be advocating as I read between the lines. That would be a totally unreasonable and despicable act of molestation and injury in itself. Do you agree or not?

In primary middle school May 1st if it was a schoolday, or a date in the first week of May meant Maypole dancing in our PE kits outdoors. Did anyone else do that? The rest of the year it was left neglected amongst all the other PE equipment. Essentially it was half hour of skipping in circles holding a ribbon. We did it mixed boys with girls, and girls liked it more than boys. Was the Maypole just a 70s/80s thing?

Whatever that boy in the photo was thinking at the time who knows but you are describing some of the things that went through my own mind in PE class, particulary when faced with the gymnasium. The "horse" in the photo is symbolic of those days to me. I often had to drag it out for use. What a useless object it was for most of us!

Reunions and positive change.

Graham. I've got a positive reunion story from this January when I went to a Class of 96 teacher pupils reunion. It was quite well shown up and I enjoyed it immensely. Some people hadn't changed much and others had seen better days. I reconnected with a few and hope to stay in touch from now on. I met a collection of my old teachers from geography, history, drama, art, english, p.e and science classes. One or two of them looked no different really.

I'll confess to not being the ideal weight when I was at school and carrying too much puppy fat around with me. I was lazy at subjects that disinterested me and p.e was no exception. Hands up, I was the tubbiest lad in class even though I didn't think I over ate, brutally shown up when I had to p.e shower beside so many slim others. I used to wind my p.e teacher up a lot by not trying and my weight was used to give me grief here and there, but nothing seriously bad. I was weighed on some school scales one day and I think I was nearly 13 stone at 14. My p.e teacher at the time was youngish and trim as you would expect.

Some time a handful of years after school ended I began getting into exercise routines voluntarily and discovered that I didn't hate it as much as I used to in school when stuck with what they wanted me to do and discovered I liked a gentle jog or long distance bike ride, both which began to get weight under control. I then went on to half marathons and then the full marathon including a number of London one's, got ever more serious into cycling up to 50 miles a day with a cycle group and enjoying all of it. I also swim now and again, and use my local gym most weeks if I can fit in the time. Now in my forties I'm two or three stone less than I was in school in the nineties. How many people can say that?

So what am I leading up to here you ask, well p.e lessons didn't give me the bug for this at all. I gave myself the bug as a young adult looking at myself in the mirror. None of the teacher or class comments fat shaming me did it for me. I did it for myself. I was always chosen for the skins side in basketball, volleyball or softball we played. Everytime he chose me or if the class chose then I'd still end up on the same side of things. A kind of passive fat shaming maybe. It had no effect at the time.

So back to the reunion in January 2022 and seeing those for the first time since 1996. One of them was my pretty slimline p.e teacher of those days. I found out he'd stopped doing the job about fifteen years ago and gone into some other non teaching job of some sort in the meantime but still within education.

And the best part was that our roles had reversed from back in school. The tubby unfit and lazy schoolboy that I was in 1996 was now a fit and healthy, lean and developed early fortysomething whilst my thin and fit old p.e teacher had stuck on a pile of weight on his face and belly and must have been over 18 stone and packing a waistline well past 40 inches compared to my 30/32 and sub 11 stone weight. He congratulated me on my efforts and how I looked and made a self depreciating comment about himself. I would have been far too polite to say anything in the way he used to do at me as an overweight schoolboy. It was a great afternoon. My only regret was that I wish I taken my old report booklet along with me to read some of the comments back at one or two of the teachers to prove how wrong they were, including my one p.e teacher here who in one line described me as having no aptitude for hard work and exercise. He ate his words in front of me.

To Jack White

Yes, whatever had to be tolerated in school, there must have been much worse to come - bullying and indignity and it was state-approved.

Looking at that picture, I notice the boy on the left of the group standing facing the "box" (it may have had a name but I can't remember). He looks very studious and I imagine that he was thinking "I didn't come here for this I thought I was going to learn Mathematics, Chemistry and Latin and History and not to have to be in here stripped to the waist".

Looking at the boys in the black and white photo from 1959 you have to feel for the ones earlier in the 50's who did PE like that and then as soon as they left school went almost straight into national service which must have meant long periods of going back into the gym in shorts and no shirts for further PE (or then PT - physical training) lessons as young adults in order to shape up. What a depressing prospect to be in school at that time and realise you had so much more of it to come when you left if you weren't naturally gifted in physical shape or pursuits.

One of the readers has pointed me in the direction of this forum and asked me to say something regarding my own personal experience and I'm happy to do so, just once. Below I have pasted a local news item from my own North London school I attended in the 1980s partly covering the same time. Stories had been doing the rounds for years about Mr Blackmore but nobody took much notice as he was basically quite a good P.E teacher. It refers to him as a 'coach' but I just think of him as a P.E teacher myself. He took afterschool track and field a lot. I think this is where he got up to much of his mischief. My cousin at the same school had him, I didn't. One day he told me how he'd quote - 'crushed a boys balls with his bare hand' for answering back and the dragged him along by his long hair until he was nearly crying. Plenty in this case went uninvestigated, what he got done for was probably the tip of the iceberg.

The trouble is perverts don't look like perverts. So take a read below and understand how this works at times. It's real, it happens and some of what these men got up to were crimes by the values of any year in history. I'm not surprised 'Mr Blackmore' was shocked to get the knock on the door in 2015 about thirty years later. I was surprised to hear it too. I'd long forgotten about the rumours of this perve that swirled about the place. This proves it's never too late and in 2017 he got his due come uppance. I always thought the worst P.E teachers were the ones in their 40s for some reason. If you had to serve the full proper sentence and not half, he'd be getting out this week. I've heard nothing since he was sent down, so I suppose he's out now if he's still alive.

Here's the story;


A perverted athletics coach who sexually assaulted pupils after sports classes was jailed for five years.
Malcolm Blackmore, 75, repeatedly groped two boys' private parts over their gym shorts in a series of attacks at Albany Comprehensive School in Bell Lane, Enfield.
Blackmore, of Friars Walk, Southgate also performed a sex act on one of the children during a school trip as he carried out a string of 'disgusting' indecent assaults between 1982 and 1985.
The 'well-respected' sports coach claimed to be 'shocked' when he was arrested and charged in 2015.

Former pupils and colleagues from Albany Comprehensive, which has now been demolished, described Blackmore as an 'inspirational teacher' during his Old Bailey trial.
But a jury convicted the former coach of eight counts of indecent assault, against boys as young as 12.
The pensioner listened through a hearing aid and showed no emotion as he was jailed for five years today (Weds).
Judge Michael Wood told him: "You are now 75 years of age, soon to be 76.
"Until now you have been of excellent character, well-respected, described as an inspirational teacher, an athletics coach, coaching you had been doing for over 30 years.
"No fewer than 11 former pupils and colleagues came to court and spoke of your many admirable qualities.
"When you were first arrested almost two years ago you were said to be shocked.
"I can well understand that now because, after well over 30 years, what you had done to your former pupils had come to haunt you.
"And until that I'm not in any doubt that you thought you had got away with it.
"You indecently assaulted two of your own pupils aged between 12-15 years.
"You indecently assaulted them whilst they were at school and should have been in your care.'

He added: "Both men still after all these years find it hard to trust people, in particular men, because of your actions."

Blackmore was jailed for five years after he was convicted of eight counts of indecent assault.