Burnley Grammar School

I have just found this forum and it is very interesting and also surprisingly relevant to my current situation. I run a small gym club for 7 to 11 year old and have done now for 25 years. In all that time I have never changed the way the club is run and I was a bit traditional to start with. Some mothers have voiced disapproval of some of my methods and although I don't think it has ever caused me to loose boys it might be effecting new membership. I though I would create a poll and ask for peoples opinions. I look forward to hearing what you all think.

Link https://www.misterpoll.com:80/polls/644072

And for message forum https://www.misterpoll.com:80/forums/327868

We had official PE and cross country kit, but could omit items if we wanted to.

Some boys wore shorts, t-shirt, socks, plimsolls, with a range of kit down to some boys only wearing shorts in the gym and xc.

So, did boys hate this limited kit, or were they quite happy to run outside barefoot and shirtless ?

Shortly before my 9th birthday my dad told me I'd be starting boxing lessons so very reluctantly and not having any say in the matter we turned up one morning and that was me. There were a good few of us around the same age and most trained and fought barechested like the older boys For me school was no different,the expectation of going barechested in the freezing gym (which was cold all year round) and cross country and teams of skins v vests outside. I remember my dad complaining to the school after the PE teacher left me on the vests team, I never wore a vest for any PE/Games lesson afterwards.

Judging from all the long-suppressed angst expressed here about vests, I am rather glad that that this particular childhood experience passed me by! I don't remember Mum or Dad ever wearing a vest, neither did my sister or I once we outgrew baby-style vests, and I can't remember seeing any of my mates at my boys-only junior school wearing one when we were changing for PE or games. PE indoors was always topless, with reversible two-colour rugby shirts for outdoor activities, cross-country, team games etc. Going commando was encouraged, but not insisted on, but if you kept your underpants on for the lesson, you had to have a clean pair to put on afterwards, and most of us chose to go without. There were no showers, but on PE and games days we were expected to bring a towel to rub ourselves down after exercise.

John, I had no issue with the shirt free kit. And we very rarely had indoor PE. It was my Mother's insistence on wearing a vest I found bizarre. Given that I would be outdoors at 9am in nothing but a pair of thin shorts, regardless of weather conditions

Barefoot Runner
I can’t see why you thought that you needed a top for doing indoor PE when you’d very quickly get hot and sweaty exercising. The kit made sense, it never bothered me.

I wore sleeveless singlet-style cotton vests throughout my schooldays. In the days before central heating or double-glazing were the norm, my mother had a perception that all manner of ills could result from being cold, and hence considered a vest to be an essential underwear item.

On a winters day aged 12, I used to leave home well wrapped up - in effect, vest, shirt, eater, blazer, coat.

Our first lesson was cross country (part of PE), so an hour later I was back outside, stripped down to only my shorts, no shirt allowed plus in the case of a number of boys bare feet as well.

One of my neighbours saw us running one freezing day, and commented, saying none of them had shirts on, Andy looked frozen". My Dad's response was "they all have to run like that, he doesn't mind" (I did mind, but as you'll guess didn't get a say in it).

I couldn't leave home without a vest in my early High School years. Having PE first on a winter morning made the requirement rather ridiculous. From the mandatory vest, shirt, blazer and parka to mandatory no vest or top of any nature.

Our official kit was shorts and pumps (outdoor) But most went barefoot. It was preferable to wet pumps. I got chiblains wearing them so went barefoot.

At grammar cshool we had to do indoor PE in juts our shorts and run cross country shirtless. My Mum didn't think it was right her "little lad" had to run outsde in winter stripped to the waist, but, as always then "teachers know best"

So now of course did I have to wear a vest, after all shirtless outside in winter, but vest under shirt inside ? The "no one wears a vest approch" won in the end.

Andy. As I have posted previously my nan had a great deal to do with my upbringing and that was rather old fashioned., because she was the generation before my parents.
So when I went to my first Scout camp my first experience away from home I felt a great sense of freedom. We slept in tents about 6 to a tent, and we had activities which nowadays would be deemed too risky. With regards to kit, PJs were on the kit list but no one insisted we wore them. I felt quite a rebel sleeping in my briefs, and then later on into the camp most of us decided not to wear anything in our sleeping bag. The PJ's went home suitably creased and a bit of dirt as if worn. But then at home back to PJ's.
Thinking back on my school days I suppose the fact that pe was nothing under shorts gave me the freedom that even Nan could not argue with.
Finally, I still remember the horrible woollen swimming trunks we wore on holiday all itchy and when wet very saggy.

Ah! - the much hated vest!

In primary school we stripped to our underwear for p.e. There were two boys in my class who didn't wear vests so they did p.e. topless whereas the rest of the boys and all the girls had to keep their vests on. I remember thinking that was unfair and hating the vest even at that early age. In the last year of primary school p.e. was segregated and we boys changed into p.e. shorts, removing our tops and footwear though I think we kept our pants on. This was to prepare us for secondary school and made us feel very grown up!
At grammar school we wore shorts only for p.e. - no tops, footwear or underwear right the way through the school. This, however, had little or no effect on vest wearing the rest of the time. When I started at the school in 1964 about three quarters of my class wore vests under their white uniform shirts - it was easy to see. By the time I got to the sixth form I think there were only two boys still wearing vests. This was not just because we were getting older - it seemed that vests were disappearing right through the school. Boys frequently walked aroung the building without blazers so it was obvious if a boy had a vest on under his shirt. It was a great sense of achievement when I persuaded my mother that I didn't need to wear a vest one very hot summer day and I never looked back.

Andy, Graham.

Andy's comment "you can leave your vest off until it gets cold" describes it precisely, only it was Mum who got to define "cold". However, I managed to put off the evil day until the end of the October half-term oliday, and unilaterally declared "Summer" the following Easter. When the next school year started in September, topless PE was introduced, and vests effectively became redundant as far as i was concerned.. As for PJ tops, I carried on sleeping topless, a state of affairs that Mum, rather surprisingly, never questioned,

Gareth

At 11/12 everyone wore pj's, at school some boys said they didn't anymore. they wore pants/briefs, or just the pj bottoms.

At a scout camp at 14 or so we shared a dorm - mostly boys slept in their briefs/pj bottoms, one "brave" lad stripped totally (I was shocked !)

So Andy did that mean you did not want to wear anything in bed? Is that what your friends did?

All sounds very familiar - "you can leave your vest off until it gets cold" "But Mum none of the other boys wear a vest, Steve doesn't wear pj's either !!"

Claire, see these these for example.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/schools-encouraged-adopt-no-shoes-policy-improve-pupils-learning-and-behaviour-a7044576.html

https://philmaffetone.com/kids-shoes/

https://www.timeslive.co.za/sunday-times/lifestyle/health-and-sex/2018-10-26-barefoot-is-better-for-kids-new-study-shows/

Chris G. You said (2 Sep) that, after a summer of not wearing a vest and sleeping topless, when cooker weather returned you were expected to be wearing vests and PJ tops again. Did you manage to dispense with these next summer, and did you get to go without them altogether while living with your parents?

William, any citations available?

There has been recent research (like 2010s) which showed that wearing footwear in childhood is harmful, hampers feet physical development (adult footwear manufactured in western world is for damaged feet) and puts body in a stressed state, in some experimental barefoot schools children have much lower aggression levels and better focus, the researchers explained that it makes them feel like at home, they also suggested that universities should handle tests barefoot or in socks for better results. You can google it, I read it some months ago and those were several independent studies, not just one.

Gareth - the grey cells are getting a bit rusty, but there were periods when it was definitely commando, and always in shorts, although at this range, I can't remember how long these periods were or when they started and finished etc. The summer leading up to my 11th birthday was warmer, and more consistently so, than usual, and this was the first occasion when Mum actually encouraged me to leave my vest off for an extended period of time and when Dad introduced me to sleeping without a PJ top. I have a particular memory of getting up and of taking my PJ bottoms off and putting on just my shorts, shirt and sandals., together with the childish sense of pride that when I went out dressed like this, people could see everything that I was wearing. I think I must have gone commando for a number of summers before that, and I know I did for at least one summer after but I do know that when we started doing PE topless when I was about 13, I had just progressed from school shorts to long trousers, and i don't remember ever going commando in those.

Chris G
Did meaning leaving off your briefs meant that you went commando in the summer, and was that atb school in long trousers or shorts?

Philip,

I too wore shorts up to the same age as yourself,although they were not compulsory at the secondary school that I attended.
I was never given an explanation as to why I had to wear shorts at that age,but I suppose it was to teach me humility and respect for my elders.

James,

We had to wear shorts at school up to the age of thirteen and then longs were optional to the age of sixteen. I had to wear shorts until I was almost sixteen for school - there was plenty of 'wear' left in them and the same at home.

Some of the accounts of past atrocities committed against young children by PE teachers are horrifying. Even today there are many schools which force kids to go bare foot in the gym while offer schools permit or require Plimsolls/trainers.

It is time to stop the practice of bare foot PE to prevent verrucae and to increase child protection.

Here are some offending secondary schools.

https://www.ketteringscienceacademy.org/_site/data/files/links/A1C0E67836FE602295DAD230C5836BFE.pdf

On occasion, pupils may be asked to be bare foot in the sports hall. Fitness suite.

https://www.wadebridge.cornwall.sch.uk/assets/file/PE%20DEPARTMENT%20FREQUENTLY%20ASKED%20QUESTIONS%20updated%20Oct%202014.pdf

PE LESSONS
What sports will I do in PE lessons?
In Years 7,8 and 9 activities are compulsory. Activities include;
BOYS – Healthy Lifestyles, OAA, Rugby, gymnastics, swimming, football, badminton, cricket,
athletics and in year 9 volleyball.
GIRLS – Healthy Lifestyles, OAA, Netball, badminton, swimming, hockey, dance, gym, tennis,
rounders, athletics and in year 9, trampolining and health related fitness
In Years 10 and 11 there is a choice of activities available and pupils choose a PE Strand
which they follow in autumn and spring term.
The strands group activities such as football, rugby etc, dance, trampolining etc and
badminton, volleyball etc. There is also a Leadership option in year 10 and 11 where you can
gain a recognised qualification.
In summer pupils can choose different activities which include; surfing, cricket, athletics,
extreme golf, street surfing, ultimate frizbee, rounders and athletics.
What is the PE KIT?
All pupils are required to wear the ‘HUMMEL’ Wadebridge School PE Kit for EVERY lesson. The
PE kit is ALL supplied through the school supplier ‘Proserve’ and is purchased at the beginning
of Year 7 or at any time after if kit needs replacing.
http://www.proservegroup.com/www.proservegroup.coms/info.php?p=2&cat=379993
Yellow HUMMEL T-Shirt, Black HUMMEL Shorts and Long Black HUMMEL Socks. Footwear will
depend on the activity and boots are essential for Football and Rugby in Autumn and Spring
term.
Shin pads are compulsory for football and hockey and gum shields are highly recommended
for both.
As part of the Wadebridge PE Kit there is a wind/shower proof jacket suitable for all outdoor
activities. This is an optional piece of kit but is recommended for Autumn and Spring activities.

For Gym it is expected that all pupils will take part in bare feet.

https://www.rainhillhighschool.org.uk/parents/school-uniform

PE Kit expectations
The PE kit is part of your child’s school uniform and the correct kit needs to be worn. We fully suggest that your son/daughter brings their fleece to every lesson as this will be the only outer layer they are permitted to. Along with their t-shirt, shorts and socks girls can wear ALL BLACK leggings that can be purchased from school and boys can bring ALL BLACK tracksuit bottoms (in the event of very cold weather). A black base layer can be worn under t-shirts and shorts again, in the event of cold weather.

Performing arts
Key stage 3 dancers- expected to wear school uniform & remove ties, shoes, socks and blazers.

Key stage 4 dancers- expected to wear PE kit and bare feet, or leggings and a t-shirt. No cropped tops.

It is time we ended the bare feet requirement and introduced a gender nuetral PE Kit that includes base layers and tracksuit bottoms. Football & rugby should no longer be a requirement for males and we should bring sport into the 21st century.

Philip,up to what age did you have to wear shorts?

Jonno, Gareth, James, Turner et al

You have taken me right back to my own childhood, and the twice-yearly ritual of changing from Winter to Summer underwear and vice versa.

For several years, I too had the torment of itchy woollen half-sleeved vest and pants in Winter, cotton in Summer, although I have no memory of my pants showing below the legs of my achool uniform short trousers. Until she was in her fifties, Mum religiously wore a vest, winter and summer alike, although she always denied this in her later years, and she did her utmost to ensure that I followed her example. To add insult to injury, I was expected to wear my vest under my PJ top at night, except in hot weather, when the PJ top rather than the vest was the discarded item, Even from my first days at school, I envied the kids who never seemed to have to wear vests, itchy or otherwise. Thankfully, by the time I moved up to secondary school, I was wearing cotton singlets and Y-front briefs throughout the year, although in hot weather, Mum's approach to "casting a clout" was for me to leave off the briefs rather than the vest, and I don't think I was alone among my peer gtroup in this.

I was nearly eleven before I spent a sizeable part of a summer minus a vest during the day and, by extension, at night as well, and it was during this period that I was introduced to sleeping topless, although once cooler weather returned, so too did vests and PJ tops. As I have posted here before, it was another couple of years before I finally got rid of vests altogether, a process triggered by the introduction of topless PE in my third year of secondary school.

Gareth,

If you were at all like me you wore what your mother told you to and any argument about that was dealt with by my father with me bent over the back of a chair and my shorts and underpants at my ankles!

I did get away with wearing vests though which I hated, I just didn't put them on but did put them out for the wash so my mother was never any the wiser or if she was, she didn't let on.

I think string vests and underpants were a fashion at one time, at first I was the only lad wearing them but over time a few more started to. I'm not sure they were ever fashionable though. I do remember coloured briefs appearing not that I was ever allowed them at home and they might just about have been fashionable but they did have the disadvantage of being made of nylon as opposed to cotton which at least white briefs were.

Phillip
As I commented in an earlier posting I remember the string briefs also I wore the string vests, which could often be seen through shirts. I do not why we wore them perhaps it was a fashion statement rather similar to people who nowadays wear their trousers at "half mast" to show off their designer pants!!!

I escaped trunks and going to grammar school in 1970 the uniform list specified white briefs. I was horrified when my mother produced string ones with only a solid cotton pouch and the rest was very see through mesh.

I was aghast at the idea of changing for PE but of course that fear was set aside at the first lesson when we were told 'when changing, you take off your underpants' by the master and so I was no worse off than anyone else and at least the string briefs were comfortable as was bare under PE shorts.