Burnley Grammar School

Half skins and half in vests on a weekly rotation and work them so they sweat, it's not harsh it's life experience.

From my memories of my early days in Secondary school, it was the going into the changing room for the first time aged 11 and having to undress in front of other boys, especially as we had to remove our pants for P.E. None of my friends form my Junior school that went to that school with me whereas the other boys had their friends with them. So I felt out of it at first but soon got used to it. Part of growing up!!
Ric like you our gym has a communal changing area and showers. Which I think is better than trying to change in the restricted area of a cubicle. My concern is when am unaccompanied lad comes in to change for the pool, and I am undressed, because so much emphasis is put on safeguarding issues. I think grabbing my towel and quickly an obviously covering up only makes the situation worse

Tom B, I was fortunate that the Grammar school I attended had a policy of showering after P.E. and games. Although at the time I might not have been thankful of the rule. I know what you mean about missing out on the bonding which goes with it. There was mainly high spirited discussion of the match and the tactics used. There was always one or two in the year who were more confident about the naked aspect of the session of sport. I too wished I had been more at ease with regime rather than being defensive in my character it would have been more relaxed and enjoyable.

I very much agree with Rics point of view regarding communal showers and it is my regret that, because I wasn’t forced to shower, I didn’t get involved.

In retrospect while I may not have appreciated compulsory showers at the time I feel I missed out on the bonding experience because of my shyness.

Very few boys showered regularly though there was one who showered after every PE and games lesson. He would also leave his towel with his kit bag and walk across the changing room naked.

I really admired his confidence and wish I had had the same.

Apart from the bare-chests, this could have been my secondary school gym back towards the end of the 1950s, with the same wall-bars, ropes, box and polished wooden floor. Unlike today, buying school uniform back then was a relatively straightforward affair, just a blazer, tie and cap from a specified school outfitters in the town, with everything else, within broad guidelines, left to personal choice: white shirt, grey trousers, black shoes etc. PE kit was similar. Provided you had a top, a pair of shorts and a pair of white-soled plimsolls - and woe betide anyone who ventured onto that polished floor in plimsolls with black soles - you were good to go. A few of my intake year had the recommended PE top, but simple economics led to most of us repurposing the underwear vests that we already owned, but increasingly chose not to wear, especially as the weather grew warmer, despite the usual maternal concerns regarding hypothermia and pneumonia. Until we discovered jock-straps, most of us went commando, although it wasn't compulsory. Inevitably, it wasn't long before the occasional individual would appear in the gym topless, having "forgotten" to put a suitable top in his bag on PE days. Our PE teacher, very easygoing compared to many of the characters depicted here, responded pragmatically to this apparent violation of the uniform regulations by calling us together one morning and announcing that from henceforth, PE tops were optional. No fuss, no threats no punishment beatings, just plain common sense, greeted with a brief cheer followed by a rapid discarding of vests all round.

On communal showers, they were a bit off the first few times but I quickly got used to them as did others. As an adult playing sport or going to the gym, communal showers remained the norm and I always found them a strangely sociable place, as a mate once said, there was no pretence and nothing to hide when you were naked in a gang of other men. My gym still has them and to me it's much more healthy than everyone hiding in cublicles.

For years, three times a week, I had a shower after games/PE sessions, yet I cannot see that it did me any psychological or, indeed, any other damage.

Without a shower, I would have felt most uncomfortable, having to stay dirty and sweaty for the remainder of the day.

The only problem with showering was the short time allowed for us to get properly dried afterwards, before our next lesson was due to begin.

All too often we arrived at the classroom looking, as one teacher put it, "like a bunch of drowned rats!"

I think its best to totally ignore Mr Dando's postings as he seems to me as he has serious issues in his life and needs to address them rather than giving this site the same old tirade of garbage, he seems to live permanently in a "bubble". I like others had showers back in the late 50's and early 60's at school, they weren't compulsory and some boys just opted to wash their legs and chests using a sink after football.

Being the only boy in a family with 3 girls I appreciated a good shower as I could never get into our small bathroom for a good soak, in the gym we were bare chested and bare foot, outside it was shorts and tee shirt and black plimsolls for track sports and cross country.

Mr Dando , I'm sorry but how does compulsory showers after PE cause lasting psychological issues?

Never did me any harm and was better than spending the rest of the school day in my own sweat and or mud from rugby.

Now that the lockdown ends for schools in England tomorrow we must ensure the dreaded compulsory shower never returns to inflict lasting psychological damage on our pupils.

Here is a school with the correct policy. http://www.nuneatonacademy.co.uk/news/temporary-change-to-school-uniform-20200915

Please note the temporary change to school uniform from the start of the new academic year in September 2020 until October 2020 half term.

On the days when your child has PE, he/she should attend the Academy in their PE kit and remain in this for the day. Shower and changing facilities are closed until further notice.

Here is another institution that still says a towel is necessary for showers.

https://www.ebhigh.org.uk/Uniform

Sports Clothing for Physical Education lessons for boys and girls:

Navy blue & white rugby shirt (available from Coes)
Navy blue and white polo shirt (available from Coes)
Navy blue & white shorts (available from Coes)
Navy blue & white “skort” (available from Coes)
Navy blue football socks
White trainer socks (for Summer term)
Non-marking trainers are required for indoor use
Football boots are needed for outdoor use; playing fields and the 3G football
pitch,
A dark coloured tracksuit may be worn for activities in the winter (not compulsory)
(available from Coes)

A towel is necessary for showers.

Students should not be using their school shoes for PE. Fashion sports shoes are
not appropriate for PE either.

While we cannot change the awful practices that were carried out in the 1980's we should use this pandemic to end compulsory towels and showers for good. Let us go from a Post Covid society to a post communal shower society and build back better.

Alan on 5th March 2021 at 12:39

I love the spice girls analogy.

I think maybe I was lucky. No matter which of the four PE teachers was taking the class they joined in with whatever we were doing. We were never left to run alone, he always came along.

Sometimes if we were in class and one of the other teachers was free they would come and join in too, particularly if we were in the gym or running or doing athletics. They would add additional help and encouragement always to do your best and they really did make the hard stuff fun. If it was a run you might find one at the front of the class and another on the heels of those at the back.

It wasn't always easy though, they wanted you to do your best and there was usually a dose of the slipper for any lad who was judged to have done less. That said, a lad who was good at sport who wasn't trying was a lot more likely to get it than an overweight lad who just couldn't do it. It wasn't either just a couple of taps, it was six stingers on each cheek.

My PE teacher usually wore a tracksuit, carried a mug of coffee, or even sat in his car with the heater on, while supervising us running around in the snow or rain, wearing only our gym shorts/shirts/plimsolls.

But, that was the point - we were exercising while he was mostly standing or sitting. We were out there for an hour, whereas he would be out for another hour later on with another group, and so on.

He could just as easily have pointed out that while we were sitting in our warm classrooms for most of the day, he was outside in the cold!

So, although I had little regard for my PE teacher, whom I regarded as a humourless bully, I can at least see this situation from his point of view.

Ric, our old dump didn't have air conditioning it is true, but we didn't have central heating either, and it was bloody cold. Like Ross our teacher always kept his track suit on, and outdoors a jacket, and in really cold weather one of those suede things with a fur collar. - for a "hard man" he was more like one of the Spice Girls.

Ric, our PE teachers never really got very physical with us at all. Just yelled instructions and let us get on with it.

I do remember the sense of relief as I peeled off my hot sweaty shorts to jump in the shower. Luckily we didn't have hot sticky plimsolls as we were barefoot in PE.

Ross on 4th March 2021 at 07:10

I'm not sure that wearing a tracksuit in the gym would have been any sort of advantage over shorts and bare chest. It must have been awfully hot when doing exercise back in the day when there was no such thing as aircon. In shorts and plimsolls it was often hot and sticky enough that you longed for a shower and peeling off a pair of shorts that were sticking to you was a relief. There's no doubt we were worked hard and although I was a reluctant beginner in PE, I grew to love it and look forward to it.

Over the past few days having seen on the TV news items relating to Ian St John the 60's era those were the style of shorts that we wore at our all boys school during the 60's. White and nothing underneath whether indoors for pe or outside for games or athletics.
How styles have changed.

Ric, I think your PE teachers might be an exception rather than the norm. My PE teachers never went shirtless or barefoot with us. Often they'd be wearing a full tracksuit and trainers whilst we all had to run around the gym wearing nothing but our shorts.

Matthew on 3rd March 2021 at 16:46

At my (boy's grammar school) the PE teachers (four of them) were always bare chest indoors and outdoors when running or for athletics. They wore shirts when referreeing or playing team games as did all the lads.

They also wore plain white shorts like we did and it was obvious that they didn't wear underpants either so there were no double standards, one rule for all.

For many posters on here, (myself included), PE was done stripped to the waist. I wonder how many teachers imposed this policy on themselves. Mine certainly didn't and neither did the teacher in the photo at the top of the page.

Jonno G: First off, I'd say parents are (or were - perhaps things have improved?) far too obsequious to teachers (indeed, teachers have a highly inflated view of their own importance - the funniest thing I heard on Radio 4 this week was not in one of their "comedy" shows that have been running since God was a lad, but in a morning news broadcast. There was a story about the government considering summer school this year to help those pupils who have fallen behind in the past year due to Covid. Some spokeswoman for a teaching union actually said, -without a hint of irony - that she "was seriously concerned that teachers would burn out if they were forced to work during their summer holidays" - bless them, they had, like the rest of us, several free weeks last year, and very few of us get a minimum of 12 weeks holiday a year, including Easter, Summer and half terms. They should try self-employment - in normal times you can work 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. Perhaps parents are intimidated by their own school-day experiences?.
Whatever, the crap I had to put up with in the years between 11-16 would make me question the motivation of teachers far more robustly..

In my view, there are deep psychological flaws in men - or women - who want to intimidate 9 year olds, and I think any teacher (but especially those in physical education) ought to be made to undergo in-depth psychological tests to see what their problems are. In my case I think some of the wizened old teachers were either hen-pecked at home, or had trouble with the bottle, and took it out on the boys..One of our teachers problems could not be explained away like that, though.

We know these days that, just like the medical profession or the church, many dirty old men still manage to get into teaching (this applied even more in the 1980s and ear;lier when they didn't have to undergo CRB checks), and if they get found out, very often instead of being sacked they are given a glowing reference so they can go somewhere else usually far away from their questionable behaviour, to be the rotten apple in the barrel. Most professions don't like to admit they have a serious problem, unless they are forced to by publicity.

I am glad the female replacement at your school changed the rules - it might not have upset many of you to have to be dressed minimally, but it would be difficult for some for different reasons. I think, to answer your question, it has less to do with feminism and more to do with equality. As more schools become co-ed and often have mixed lessons, it shows great inequality to have boys just in shorts and girls covered up.Quite rightly, nobody would suggest that girls be made to dress down, and let's not forget some girls can be as big a bully as boys can - some boys can be subjected to bullying by both sexes. If a boy wishes to remove his top, I wouldn't stop them, but it should be a personal decision, and not used to coerce every pupil into doing so. The sense of power and control, or something far more sinister, should not be in the hands of a teacher, whether that pupil is 9 or 18.

Hi Alan, Some teachers were brutal in the way they treated boys. I first was picked to strip off as a very ordinary 9 year old and stripping off to the waist in midwinter after snowfall or a hard frost was never easy whether it was your first or 100th time but I do recall lads saying they'd be warmer stripped rather than wear a thin lightweight vest. In the gym to be honest a vest would have simply stuck to you and if you can feel sweat dripping down your back or chest the last thing you want is a thin top. Done properly exercising bare chested helps to instill confidence and trust and at no time was there ever any sign of inappropriateness with anyone. Oddly, in 2000 after a female head was appointed, stripping off ceased and parents protested to the head and governor's and even the LEA on the grounds it improved the boys physicality, a point which remains valid in today's feminist environment. Would that be the case if inappropriateness had been identified?

Jonno G: I am glad you never felt threatend, but I amazed that none of the three sets of parents didn't question WHY their sons were not singled out in this manner. I really don't see the need, either outdoors, or given the light weight of singlets and tee shirts, for this bare-chested policy, especially as late as 1996. Even before Savile and Cyril Smith MP were exposed for the men they were, it was well known that, for example, priests, who preached against sin, saw nothing "sinful" in molesting young choir boys. Just because a person hides behind a "profession", doesn't exclude them from scrutiny. Was this an older teacher who perhaps could hide behind the excuse that this was the way things had always be done?. If he was younger , I should say the headmaster of your school should have noticed his tendency to "hand pick" the same lads every lesson, and questioned his motives.

Hello Alan, To a point I agree. Being bare chested indoors made sense. Everyone was pushed hard and would be visibly sweating before we were half way through the session. Outdoors was kind of different. Two other lads along with me could guarantee to strip to the waist 99% of the time, Both my parents completely backed the teachers approach throughout school and I never once felt threatened or bullied into stripping down.

Sorry the comment TO Jonno was made by myself. I stand by every word of it as well.

Jonno G: This is yet another example of, at best (if you can call it that) a teacher allowing power to go to his head, or at worst, perhaps the ones he liked to see with damn all on he fancied..

This is a great photo. Our school had a mandatory bare chest policy for all boys regardless of indoor activity, this was preferred as you'd sweat up. Outdoors we had a rugby top however our teacher preferred a skins team and would hand pick the lads he wanted to strip off and leave their tops along the sidelines. For cross country runs we wore blue vests. Before each run we'd all gather and again the teacher determined who would strip off and vests would be left in a line on the school yard. Being "good" at sports simply meant you'd always be one of the first lads to be told to strip down. Trainers were always worn and I left school in 1996. This is the UK if anyone wonders.

I was sad when state grammar school education ended, because for a number of years, despite controveries about selection, these schools provided a good education for at least some working class youngsters.

During those years many private fee-paying schools closed, because parents realised that their children could receive as good an education for free at their local grammar school.

But, back in the day, it was admitted during a TV interview, that the grammar schools had to be closed, because they were accepting the children of Labour voters, but turning out young people who later voted differently!

In other words, grammar school children were getting too good an education - so it had to stop!

Luckily I was able to complete my secondary education before the local authority bowed to political pressure, and converted my old grammar school into a comprehensive.

Matthew and Jason: I suspect quite a few of the stories published here are fantasies. What I think is the most worrying thing is, true, or not - it is what the writer would have LIKED to happen.

To Jason. I submitted a comment that Four's four-hour punishment reference was fiction but it didn't get published.

four, since you didn't reply after my statement that i believe your post is unbelievable... so it confirm my supposition that your post is just a product of your fantasy.