Burnley Grammar School

I may be accused of looking at the past through rose tinted glasses but I oddly feel the opposite.

I read these accounts and feel I would have benefited from a tougher experience. On the field or in the gymnasium I was able to get away with far too much.

In terms of modesty and shyness, looking back, the best way to have “got over” those feelings and fears would have been to have no option but to experience minimal PE kit and communal showers.

Joining a gym some years later I have certainly found results with the help of a trainer constantly pushing me to work harder, I feel comfortable training in shorts and a vest or shirtless in the summer and have realised that there is no need to be shy in the changing room.

It's really striking to me just how much I can relate to so much that has been written on this discussion about PE classes. One in particular from recent days hit home, and it was that description of a "sinking feeling" when realising you would have to do PE barechested. My experiences are from an almost six year period during the 80's.
My school had what can only be described as a very rigid and strict PE dress code. Exceptionally strict infact. I had three PE classes each week, two indoors and one outdoors. Both of the indoors PE classes were compulsory barechested for all boys and there were no exemptions, even for a poor classmate who had a quite severe eczema over his body. One lesson was in the gym, in white shorts and the other was in a sports hall in black shorts. Our 80's shorts were very tight and skimpy too! At no time during indoors PE were we ever allowed to wear any trainers or footwear, it was always bare feet without exception. One of the indoor classes would quite frequently be a mixed boys/girls lesson which kind of made not being allowed to wear very much for boys a real trauma for some of us, especially when you hit about the age of thirteen or fourteen.
Even the outdoors lesson could often be a barechested one, on decent autumn days and more or less always during the summer term, which meant that literally the only time I wore a top in PE over the years was outside in the winter months. I often ran outdoors cross country barechested in autumn from September to November and it was a course that took us out of school grounds into some quite public areas too, which I detested. On one occasion I did accidentally forget my outdoor running shoes and ran the three miles in my bare feet by reluctant choice, as the alternative was to wreck my new leather school shoes in thick mud. Running barefoot through thick mud then gravel paths and onto tarmac before returning to the grassy playing fields was no fun I assure you.
The showers at my school were a very large open plan affair and I always remember them for being extremely hot, steaming away throughout the changing room. I tried to avoid them the first time we had them but got caught with a friend trying to do so and was effectively stripped bare on the spot and frogmarched into them. That's what still grates a bit to me, that there was no acknowledgement that we are not all the same and we have different levels at which we are comfortable. Some boys love getting their kit off and losing the shirt at any opportunity, others never would through choice, and some dived into the showers without a second thought. But quite a large number of us didn't do so, and what discussions like this one here are proving is that there were far more of my type out there than ever realised.
I still wonder just why I had to do literally everything in PE in nothing but a pair of shorts, stuff like squash, badminton etc? You can make the case for actual gym work on apparatus maybe, but why some of the other games needed me in my bare feet and barechested remains a mystery.
Even our summer sports days were compulsory barechested when we had our visiting parents and families watching, which was even more problematic for quite a few of us. I never even walked around at home with my kit off and certainly always kept a t-shirt top on even in summer. A total lack of empathy for the shyer boys amongst us from our PE teachers and I'd sure as hell like to hear from any current or old school PE teacher and what their attitude is to boys who struggle with these kind of "sinking feeling" barechested and shower requirements. It's not as if I had a body to be ashamed of, I didn't.

If anyone wants film of Umbro shorts being worn at school in the early 1980s could I suggest the film 'Gregory's Girl' (which should be fairly easily obtainable)? http://thefootballattic.blogspot.com/2015/06/football-on-film-gregorys-girl.html

Andy - I have never heard of a boy injuring his foot whilst running barefoot outside before. Quite a few times it felt as though I had cut a foot on a sharp stone - usually after the farmer had ploughed the field where we ran up the edge. There was, however, never any injury. The boy in your class must have been unpopular if you all had to run in plimsolls after his injury.

When I started grammar school in the mid 60s our shorts had to be plain - no stripes or patterns, they were cotton, very short and, of course, worn with nothing underneath. This didn't bother us as it was an all boys school. I remember one boy changing into a pair of new black satin-style shorts in the fourth form. They were very thin and shiny and caused quite a stir! I think every-one else carried on with cotton shorts.

In our all boys school which I attended in the 60's what seemed very short shorts.We were not allowed to wear pants underneath the shorts which were so thin it would be obvious if anyone flouted the rules. I suppose nowadays with longer shorts being worn and the preference for boxers as underwear they can get away with wearing them during p.e.

The proper Umbro shorts didn’t have an inner brief. Boys would wear briefs under and the material was so thin you could always see the outline/pattern through the white ones.

Back then boys hadn’t started wearing boxers which would have been far too long.

My Umbro shorts that I wore didn't have inner briefs.

James,
Did your Umbro shorts have inner briefs?

Yes, the Umbro white nylon shorts were standard just before I started at the school.

I remember some boys wearing them (probably handed down from older brothers) but I had slightly longer white polyester shorts for PE and navy cotton rugby shorts for games lessons.

I always liked how light, soft and shiny the Umbro’s looked.

Tom B, Umbro shorts did come in different colors,but most of the boys at my school continued to wear cotton shorts as I'm sure that they didn't want to wear anything different from their contemporaries .They were extremely shiny and short but were accepted as the regulation kit.

Turner, those Umbro shorts in white were the standard in my school just before I started. I thought they were really nice. They came in several colours but for PE and games the boys at my school wore white with the black diamonds.

These are closer to the shorts we wore in the 60s although only white was worn for PE:-

https://www.ifbray.com/2015/10/14/vintage-80-umbro-soccer-shorts-shiny/

Adam,the shorts that I wore were considerably shorter than those pictured and having an inseam of about 5cms. They were extremely bright and shiny and had a tremendous sheen. I agree it took a while to get accustomed to wearing shorts that were quite so short especially when the facilities were shared with the girls.

James - yeah, we had this style of shorts but maybe they were a little bit shorter in the 90s:

https://www.yourschoolwear.co.uk/black-shadow-stripe-shorts-2312-p.asp

I was generally careful how I sat, but I seem to remember that wasn't always possible on some of the machines in the weights room. I suppose the girls seeing up my shorts once or twice was a case of "turnabout is fair play" given how 'exposed' their gym skirts left them at times!

Tom B - We weren't allowed any branded shorts, we just had black ones like these ones but maybe a little shorter:

https://www.yourschoolwear.co.uk/black-shadow-stripe-shorts-2312-p.asp

John

My schooldays were a decade or so before yours, but like you and your mates, wearing a vest under one's school shirt, or under any shirt for that matter, was pretty much universal. Equally universal, on the grounds of laziness, lack of showers and economy (why buy an additional dedicated PE top when you are already wearing a perfectly adequate vest) was the practice that you describe, of wearing our ordinary underwear vests for PE, putting our shirts back on over these, by-now damp and sweaty, vests afterwards and living with the hygiene consequences until bedtime, or even beyond! So, when topless PE was introduced at my school when I was about 13, it was welcomed by virtually everyone, pupils and parents alike.
There was, however, one unintended consequence, which somewhat dampened this parental enthusiasm for PE minus vests. Instead of going to school wearing our vests, removing them for PE and putting them back on afterwards, it soon became fashionable to "forget" that final step and to go vest-less for the remainder of the day. From there it was just a short step to not wearing a vest at all on PE days and by half-term I, along with most of my mates, had given up wearing them altogether.

We still had no showers, and no-one thought to suggest that we take towels to school, so instead of putting our shirts back on over damp sweaty vests, we put them back over damp sweaty bodies!

Daniel T, I think a fair few of us experienced that "sinking feeling" I spoke about. The first lesson must have been grim for you, being singled out to take your top off like that. At least with our teacher, it was more general. Half the lads shirtless for indoor lessons in the first year, and then everyone a skin from the second year onwards. There was one lad who used to moan (out of the teacher's earshot!) that he was "always skins" in the first year. But I honestly didn't think he was. It probably just felt that way. Our teacher's choice for who was a shirt and who was a skin seemed pretty random to me.

One thing you're not alone in, though, is being pushed hard in lessons. We were too, believe me. Drenched in sweat indoors, covered in mud out on the rugby pitch in winter. But we just accepted it as being expected, I think.

Interesting that in basketball you all swapped sides halfway through. Can't imagine it was very pleasant to put a top on if you'd been a skin and got all sweaty. (Much better for the lads who had been in vests to be able to get rid of them though, I'd have thought!) We only did shirts v skins for the first year - after that it was everyone shirtless, and teams differentiated by different colour shorts - but if you were told you were a skin, you stayed shirtless for the whole lesson. Never any question of putting a top on.

Sorry you lost your boxing match, by the way!
_____________

Rob, I think it was the complete shift in experience from junior to secondary school that made it so hard at first. Four years at comfortable, friendly junior school.....and then suddenly immersed in this much bigger, much more adult, much more regimented environment. A real sea change. And to then, on the second or third day, encounter this incredibly hard PE teacher and his rules.....well, it just added to the feelings. The shirts v skins thing was a shock for starters (even though I was a shirt that first lesson), and then came our introduction to communal showers. After the lesson he came in the changing room, pointed out the showers (yeah, right, as if we couldn't see them!) and laid down the rules. Everyone was to go in the showers after every lesson. No exceptions ever. We were to go in naked. And nobody was to ever touch the controls. (Basically the hot and cold taps on the wall just as you go in.) He made it quite clear he controlled when the showers went on and off, and the temperature of the water.

And that was it; he told us to get out of our PE kits, put our towels on the rail just outside the showers, and then get in there. Which, of course, we all did. Once we were out and getting back into our school uniforms, he said that going forward we were to put our towels on the rail BEFORE we left the changing room for the lesson. His words were something like "This is to stop any boy thinking he can come in at the end of the lesson, run up to the showers with a towel wrapped round his waist, quickly stick his head in to get his hair wet, and make it look like he'd had a shower." Which, on the face of it, I could kind of understand. But he used to come in the changing room after every lesson, control the water, and stand there just outside the showers as we were all in there. (Blocking everybody's exit until he gave the word, I always thought.) So, anyway, nobody could have done that thing he said even if they'd wanted to!

Hence - probably no surprise here - in the early days I disliked PE showers as much as I disliked being made to do a lesson as a skin. But, just as with the shirtless thing, I grew to accept it, as it was clear that's how things were done with this teacher. Anyone could see he was never going to change his rules.

I must say I think the soft, thin and slightly shiny white nylon Umbro shorts were fantastic.

I’d wear them now if they produced them again. The colours were great too.

Adam,shorts were very different in the 70's and 80's and I remember those very short,shiny shorts that were made from polyester nylon.
I always sat with my knees together so my shorts didn't' gape'.

Lee, I came from a small primary school where PE was non-existent and we only did a few gentle exercises once a week dressed in our normal clothes in the school hall. I remember one warm summer day when I was aged about 7 or 8 my mum took me and my younger sister to the local public golf course where she asked me if I wanted to take my shirt off. I did not hesitate and to my mum's surprise also removed my vest. From that moment on I discovered the pleasure of being stripped to the waist!
So when I went to grammar school although it was a completely new experience at the start of the first PE lesson having to get changed into just a pair of gym shorts and plimsolls it wasn't a problem for me.
At that time it was rare for families to have showers at home and I had never been in one and although I must have been aware of the shower block in the changing room I thought nothing of it as I was probably concentrating on getting changed. However at the end of the lesson we were all told to go back to the changing room and take a shower. Arriving in the changing room I found a lot of the boys already naked in the showers. I took my plimsolls off and realised I had to take my shorts off as well and that I would be showing everything in front of the other boys, something I had never done before. I realised there was no way way out and duly removed my shorts and walked naked from the bench into the open communal showers. I immediately felt a great sense of relief and realised that I was no different from the others and I had no further problem .

How about you, Lee, when did you have to start showering after PE; how did you feel and did you hate it as you did when you first had to go stripped to the waist?

Lee, I know what you mean having that sinking feeling. Our PE teacher started our first lesson by singling me out to the front of the class before shouting "Right lad, vest off now!' That was my introduction to bare chested PE. After about a couple of months we were told x-country runs would start so being unsure about wearing a top we all lined up outside wearing our pale blue school vests simply to be told to strip down. We then started to do full PE lessons outdoors either skins vs vests or more commonly skins vs skins too. In the gym it was normal to see vests clinging to upper bodies and sweat running down the skins team. We were always pushed hard indoors or outside. I was good at sports and was on school teams. When you represented the school for x-country or boxing you stripped to the waist regardless. It was quite amusing doing x-country competitions on winter with no vest/t-shirt on, it often resulted in the other school reluctantly making their lads strip off too just to save face. All our PE teachers stood no nonsense and each treated us the same way too. Being made to strip to the waist so much also had an unexpected surprise. My future wife first saw me at an inter-schools boxing event when I was 16. All lads were expected to box without vests on which went down very well with the audience. I made it as far as the final before losing heavily. I was also on the basketball team
When we played, one team started in vests and stripped off at halftime while those who were skins wore a vest for the second half.

James, well the issue that always stood out for me with the girls' kit was that they were meant to wear the black knickers underneath their gym skirts.

Us lads never had any rules about our underpants, we could wear them under our PE shorts. I suppose with hindsight I would have preferred slightly longer shorts, our football-style shorts did gape open occasionally if you weren't careful when you were sitting down! So from that point of view I can see why you might not have liked the shorts, yeah.

It's clear that the answers on here are from people who went to school in all sorts of different eras, it's been quite interesting to me to see how it differed in the 70s and early 80s for example.

Adam,I agree it was probably as issue that girls wore skirts for PE as it was the same for boys wearing their shorts.
I too wasn't particularly good at PE,but wearing shorts all the time was something that I had to accept.

Thanks for the welcome Rob! Interesting that you surmised our PE teacher was new to the job. Because, effectively, he was. We knew from others that it was only his second year at the school the year we started there. He was actually a young bloke, almost certainly straight out of teacher training that year before. Which, with hindsight, kind of made me wonder about his tough attitude and demeanour. As others have said, previously a lot of them had PE teachers who came from the Army, or had done Military Service. This fella wouldn't even have been born during Military Service times, let alone been conscripted! So his really rather hard methods were a bit of an enigma. Maybe he himself had had a really tough PE teacher, and it fed through to him? Whatever, we had little choice but to do what we were told. (Not that I really remember anyone questioning it that much, to be honest. We just accepted it as the way things were I suppose.)

Interestingly it appears he didn't mellow with time either. A neighbour's son started at that school the year after I left, and he told his parents the teachers were all OK, but the PE teacher was very scary! I remember this boy's dad asking me if I knew who his son was referring to. I certainly did! But I also said "Don't worry. Yes he's a tough man, but he has never broken any rules. They would've got rid of him if he had."

Seems you were a lot more at ease with shirtless PE from the start than I was. Well done you! I can still remember the sinking feeling when we walked into the changing room that very first lesson, and there, on one side of the room, was this big communal shower area. I knew, without a shadow of a doubt, we'd be going in there later. And to then, a few minutes later in the gym, get shirts vs skins thrust upon on us......well, it wasn't good!

But, yeah, time worked. He was clearly never going to bend, so we all had no choice but to get used to shirts vs skins, then all lads shirtless, and obviously naked communal showers. And get used to it I did. Which then progressed to being totally relaxed with the whole set up. And anyway, like you say, when you're worked hard in a hot gym, of course you get sweaty. And when you're worked hard out on a marsh of a rugby pitch, of course you get caked in mud. And nothing better after either of those than a shower!

James, yes I had shorts for things like summer holidays. I wasn't very sporty out of school, but PE didn't put me off wearing shorts or anything.

I can see where the girls were coming from with their complaints about their kit. For them the issue was having to wear skirts *for PE*, and not about skirts as a garment in general.

Kevin,
In the 1970s in the North of England Education Authorities had PE Advisors, they would formulate policy for the PE curriculum for Primary & Secondary Schools and yes Health & Safety did exist back then with the Health & Safety At Work Act 1974 being a major piece of legislation. PE Advisors would then instruct Headteachers to implement their advice, Headteachers would consult with School Governors and new policies or rules would be implemented in all Local Authority Schools. At age 9 my school decided that boys would no longer wear vests for PE and would in future do PE lessons stripped to the waist. My parents were happy with this change but some parents disliked it. One of the reasons for not allowing boys to wear tops was because there had been a few incidents where boys had been using wall bars, ropes and beams and if upside down had sustained serious injuries because their vests had fallen over their heads. Another reason was that most lads in the 1970s wore vests underneath their school shirts, they wore the same vest for PE. They got hot and sweaty doing PE and kept this vest on for the rest of the day after they got dressed and put their shirts and jumpers back on. Primary Schools had no shower facilities. Wearing a sweaty and damp vest for the rest of the school day was clearly not hygienic. My brother and I and our friends were happy to do PE stripped to the waist as it was far more comfortable. It was a sensible rule and I personally don’t understand why it still isn’t in practice today.

Lee, welcome to the forum. it sounds as though your ''hard bloke PE teacher '' was new to the job. I went to an all boys grammar school a good few years earlier than you but we didn't play team games in the gym. Like you we had two single PE sessions in the gym and one double games session outside per week. Our outdoor kit was the same as yours while our indoor kit was listed as black shorts , white T shirt and black plimsolls. (no mention of socks). My mum had heard from friends who had boys at the school that ''they ran around with nothing on on top'', so it came as no surprise at the start of the first PE lesson when we were all told to strip off completely, including pants and socks, and to come back into the gym wearing just shorts and plimsolls. This wasn't a problem for me as at that time it was quite normal for boys to get their shirts off when they were playing outside at home together. However, at the end of the lesson we were told to go back to the changing room and get in the showers and it took me a lot of courage to go naked into the open communal showers but I soon got used it. During our PE lessons we did a lot of fitness and circuit training and were worked hard so that were sweating profusely and needed a shower every time to freshen up.
I am wondering how you managed to overcome your initial shyness about taking your shirt off to being able to go shirtless from the second year onwards and even go naked in the showers. Whatever, it was good to know that, like me, you got to enjoy your experience so much.

Kevin asked a question yesterday; "Was it a matter of schools' policies or down to individual PE teachers with a tough ,spartan approach?"

I could be wrong, but I think back in my day (as I said in my first comment this was late 80s > early 90s) policies for PE were delegated to the local authorities. Some kept it there, and others chose to hand it down to the schools themselves. This would be borne out by the fact, whilst my class was made to do every indoor PE lesson stripped to the waist, I had a couple of mates in another local secondary school, and they never went shirtless for PE.

I then think it could go even further. If schools who had been given the decision making from the local authorities wanted to do so, they could then delegate those decisions down to the PE teachers themselves. The reason I think this might have been the case is I sometimes saw lads in my school who had the other PE teacher to us, coming out of the gym after their lessons, and they always had tops on. (And half with school bibs over their tops if they'd had a team sport.)

So, yeah, depending on which school you were at, I reckon the PE policies were decided by either the local authority, the school itself, or the individual teachers. I happened to be at a school where it was down to the PE teachers, and of the two at my school, I was in the class of the tough one........and he required all boys to be shirtless for indoor PE. Whether that meant I drew the short or long straw is a matter of everyone's personal opinion! (For me, it was the short straw in the early days, but that straw grew longer the more we had to do PE bare-chested.)

Pretty sure the policy decision-making would be a lot more standardised these days??

When I was at school I hated PE and Games. I wasn’t sporty, I was skinny and unpopular.

A couple of decades later I found the gym and a PT who has helped me to achieve goals and enjoy exercise. I wish I could have come to that realisation and made progress in school.

In terms of training gear. When I started out I went for the longest shorts and an oversized t-shirt. As I have seen results and grown in confidence the shorts have got shorter and I’ll go for a vest or shirtless for the upper body sessions.

I have taught in British comprehensive schools since 2004, starting out in Rye Sussex. Later I worked in both the North East and the Midlands. I can honestly say that in no school I have ever worked in has it been a requirement for boys to be stripped to the waist for gym and certainly not for outdoor sports. With the increase in Co-Ed education if it happened it would be long ago in the past by now. Any old school teacher trying to implement it or encourage it would be very unlikely to get her/his way.