Burnley Grammar School

Paul - as I've said elsewhere, when I first went to boarding school, I expected, and found, communal nudity in showers, changing rooms and dormitories, just as you have described. What I didn't expect to find, though, was that everyone, without exception, slept nude as well. Did this happen in your school?

Josh H,

We had nude swimming at school (boarding school 1960s/70s) and it wasn't that it was imposed, it was just what happened. Trunks were not part of the required uniform so no one had them. We were used to being naked in the dormitory, showers and changing rooms so swimming was not alien to that. In men only situations at the time nudity was quite normal - did anyone ever see a partitioned shower in a men's changing room?

I lived for quite a few years in Helsinki and my local swimming pool had men's days and women's days. I don't know what happened on women's days but on men's days there were no trunks to be seen and that is still the norm at the pool I used to use.

I prefer that to dealing with men with hangups dancing behind towels in changing rooms in case anyone sees a bare bottom or worse still a penis.

Josh H,
I didn’t swim naked at school but my cousin did and had no issues with it and it wouldn’t have bothered me at all. From what I have read on the subject, nude swimming was imposed for boys because back in the 1950s and 1960s the trunks were often made of wool or cotton and the fibres from these garments would block the filters of the swimming pool. Back then the filters were apparently less sophisticated than they are now.

By the 1970s nylon swimming trunks were available and the issue of fibres from the lads’ trunks blocking the pool filters was resolved. At a boys only school I cannot see why some people find swimming naked such a big deal.

Although having read it in several comments, I still wonder why at many schools trunks were not worn for swimming and why it was done in the nude. We had swimming lessons every week and there was no stipulated colour for trunks although in the 60's we all wore the briefs type.
I suppose I would have coped with naked swimming because the whole class would be the same. But why was this rule imposed at so many schools?

Forgetting P E kit in my prep school resulted in a slipping as a "reminder" not to forget it again and using kit from the list property. No pants were ever worn under shorts so always a risk borrowed pair might slip off, though our swim lessons were nude so we all saw each other naked anyway. The nudity wasn't the problem it was the whacking and being the odd one out which caused pain and embarrassment respectively

The punishment in my school was having to write lines or the cane across the hand. Some teachers gave the lad the option of detention or cane. Most accepted the can.
a) It got the punishment over and done with
b) If you stayed behind at school your parents would know and you would be punished further by them. In P E the punishment was slipper across the backside and wearing only thin shorts and no pants was painful.Although I only know that from what other boys told me.

Mr Curious,
Please accept my sincere apologies for the post that appears on the 23rd of January which appears to have come from you. I have clearly made an error whilst typing, the post is from me.

John

Mr.Curious,corporal punishment was administered at the school that I attended and was usually used to maintain discipline.
Mainly we would receive the cane on our buttocks if we misbehaved,but frequently we would receive a sharp slap on our legs.Mainly for PE and games our teacher would use a strap over our skimpy shorts if we weren't trying hard enough.

Mr Curious - forgetting PE kit always resulted in a dose of the slipper and then being told to find shorts in the lost property box, if you were lucky they fitted but they were usually too tight or too big. Too tight rubbed your stinging arse and too big you had to keep hold of because you weren't wearing underpants.

For all else there was the cane, every master had one and four strokes was pretty common, six exceptionally and eight from the headmaster.

Private boy's grammar school in the 1970s.

I was at Senior School in the 1970s and if we forgot our PE kit we were loaned a pair of white shorts and a pair of pumps. We had to route through a basket to try and find some that would fit and invariably couldn’t; the deterrent for forgetting PE kit was having to wear someone else’s smelly pumps. If we couldn’t find any pumps to fit then we simply did PE in shorts and went barefoot.

Another question for the posters and readers here.

Was there corporal punishment at your school and how was it carried out?

A simple question to those who were at school in the 50s,60s and 70s.

What happened when you forgot your PE kit for PE class?

Were you punished in some way, including corporal punishment, or made to do PE in something else?

An alumnus named Martin left some memoirs of Shears Green School on this site.
The earliest one that I can find is from December 7, 2013 and is currently on page 40.
The latest is from April 16, 2014 and is currently on page 38.

There has been much talk of the old policies of having boys and girls topless for mixed sex gym classes. Girls topless up to the age where they required bras. There has also been much talk about boys swimming nude. There is a Facebook site from Shears Green Primary School in Kent which has comments from former students remembering how the boys had nude swimming on Mondays, the girls had nude swimming on Wednesdays and both boys and girls had nude swimming together on Fridays. Some of the comments from the girls showed that they looked forward to the mixed swimming.

Ian,
Where there also female visitors who saw the boys showering naked?
Were you also belted bare in front of visitors?
What was their reaction?

I understand that you had to do what you were told without question in those days but this seems to have been too sadistic and humiliating to me.

Further to the comments about visits,my school always used to include the gymnasium in any visitor's tour. Two dozen lads wearing nothing except skimpy shorts being relentlessly put through their paces by a teacher barking commands and blowing his whistle must have been a memorable feature of any guest's visit.
On several occasions a boy was slippered with visitors present.I imagine the visitors approved the firm discipline.

In response to Ian and Andy, I too was at school in the 60's and remember only too well the same rules as you mentioned in your comments. The belt was seen by many teachers as just another 'teaching aid' and used frequently and with force.

With regard to following instructions the ONLY acceptable response was 'Yes, Sir'! There was no alternative response!

Despite what is mentioned, I never saw any benefit in educating children within an environment where the threat of corporal punishment hung over their heads on a daily basis.

Ken,
There weren't many visits - usually only a couple of visits per term.
Our school was a large boys grammar and the new head of PE was introducing a really tough new regime in the secondary school. The local authority used to send a few officials to check on progress. Quite a few teachers and trainees came to see how things were being done. Fathers occasionally visited, either from curiosity or concern about their sons.
Some visitors would just pop in and out after a chat with the teacher. Those staying a whole period would see us being ordered to strip then shower. The teacher would supervise us accompanied by the guests.
This happened at an age from 11 to 18, but 14 to 16 seemed to happen most often. My theory is that was when most corporal punishment was used and visitors wanted to see boys being belted and belted hard.
There was a rumour about our teacher, described as "always belting" on Friends Reunited, that he'd been asked to move on from an English boys school because he was too keen on the cane and that he'd been head hunted by our school. I have been able to corroborate the former using the internet.

Ian,

You said that "there were occasions when visitors were present" during your showers.
What kind of visitors were they, did they see the boys showering naked and how old were you boys?

In response to Michael's comments about obeying without question, reminds me of an article I read written by Baden Powell during my leadership training as a Scout Leader. He was sailing on a small dinghy with his elder brother when his brother shouted get down. Apparently the boom was about to swing towards where B.P. was. He said that if he had questioned the instruction/order then he would have been swept off the boat into the sea. Hence the necessity sometimes to obey without question and why he included that in the Scout Laws.
Of course p.e. being done in bare feet and in shorts with no underwear these days will not happen.

In the 1960s/70s we always had showers after PE and they were always cold. The reason was the same as why we were not allowed to wear underpants, it was to make men of us.

Neither did any harm and I loved PE.

Ian's comment about obeying the teacher's instructions, reminded me of an incident at my primary school, where we used the assembly hall for many purposes including PE.

It was approaching Christmas and the hall was bedecked with colourful decorations, including a tall tree and many streamers pinned around the walls and hanging from the ceiling.

My class was in the middle of a dance routine when the teacher blew his whistle unusually loudly, and we all stopped immediately as we had been trained to do.

The teacher had noticed a streamer had fallen to the floor, carrying a drawing pin in its end. His prompt action almost certainly prevented a member of my class (all in bare feet) from stepping on it.

This demonstrated to all of us, how important it was to do as we were told, without hesitation.

In response to your final comment Ian, i.e. obey without question, it reminds me of one of the original Scout Laws I was brought up with as given below.
A SCOUT OBEYS ORDERS of his patrol-leader, or scout master without question. Even if he gets an order he does not like, he must do as soldiers and sailors do, he must carry it out all the same because it is his duty; and after he has done it he can come and state any reasons against it: but he must carry out the order at once. That was discipline, and usually accepted as part of life.

Showers, stripped naked, were compulsory at my school in the 60s - after gym periods, before and after the swimming and after games. The punishment for trying to skip showers was six of the belt given full force by the PE master. I found this out the hard way!
Cold showers in front of the rest of the class were also used as punishment.
There were occasions when visitors were present, but we taught to obey our PE teacher's orders without hesitation.

At my old grammar school we had PE/Games sessions three times a week, followed by a compulsory shower. The water temperature was regulated by the teacher from toasty warm to freezing cold.

There was some speculation that this depended on the teacher's opinion of how well we had worked during the session, but of course there was no proof of this.

But, whatever the water temperature, there never seemed to be sufficient time allowed to get properly towel dried afterwards. This meant that one was either late for the next lesson - resulting in a detention - or in time but still dripping wet.

One teacher commented that my class always arrived for her lesson looking like 'drowned rats'!

The research goes on. Let us not forget there are many pupils returning to school with dread tomorrow. I will end school showers, topless swimming for boys, skorts for girls and allow both boys and girls to wear tracksuits and base layers all year round for full body modesty. All pupils should change in gender nuetral cubicles so they do not see each other naked.

There are still some schools that insist on towel for showers!

http://www.corneliusvermuyden.com/parent/uniform.html



UNIFORM & PE KIT

Wearing uniform is obligatory; all pupils must comply with the school's uniform code. Not only does the uniform and smartness of our pupils add to the school's image and prestige in the wider community, but it contributes to a business-like atmosphere conducive to achievement.

A high standard of appearance is required at all times and is integral to all pupils time at Cornelius Vermuyden.

BOYS
Plain black blazer with the school badge
Plain black v-neck pullover with yellow stripe round neck
Plain white shirt with collar
School tie (to be worn at all times)
Plain black trousers
Plain black socks
Sensible plain black shoes without decoration (no trainers or sling backs)
Plain coat or anorak, preferably in a dark colour
Boys Indoor PE Kit
Black and gold shorts
Black and gold polo shirt with collar and logo
White/black sport socks
Trainers (laced, non-marking, no converse/vans/huarache or fashion shoes)
Black athletics short (compulsory if selected to represent in athletics or cross country)
PE planner
Boys Outdoor PE Kit
Black and gold rugby shirt
Black and gold shorts
Plain black jogging bottoms (optional)
Black and gold hooded sweatshirt with logo (optional)
Black and amber waterproof (optional)
Black football socks
Football boots
Towel
Gumshield
PE planner
GIRLS
Plain black blazer with the school badge
Plain black v-neck pullover with yellow stripe round neck
plain white shirt with collar
School tie (to be worn at all times)
Plain black pleated skirt (school approved style) with hem no more than 2'' above the knee and not below the mid-calf
Plain black trousers - optional
Plain black socks
Plain black or natural tights
Sensible plain black shoes without decoration (no trainers or sling backs)
Plain coat or anorak, preferably in a dark colour
Girls PE Kit
Black and gold shorts/skort
Black and gold polo shirt with collar and logo
Black and gold hooded sweatshirt with logo
White sport socks (will need black football socks for girls football and hockey)
Trainers (laced, non-marking, no converse/vans/huarache or fashion shoes)
Black athletics shorts (compulsory if selected to represent in athletics or cross country)
Plain black jogging bottoms (optional)
Black/white sports socks
Black and amber waterproof (optional)
Hairband
Towel
PE planner

Please lets show true 2020 vision and have no nudity in the New year term.

Would the schools be offended by Mr Dando's observations, or would they dismiss them out of hand on the ground that what is asserted without evidence should be dismissed without evidence? Showers are not self-evidently abusive and to keep asserting that they are without offering any evidence, justification or analysis is a pretty pointless exercise. I should, however, like to thank Mr Dando for his research since it has revealed that some schools do still have showers, which is heartening in itself.

A bit harsh, possibly even actionable, to describe a school that requires children entrusted to its care to shower after exercise as "an offending institution", when this requirement is explicitly stated in its policies.

Mr Dando,
Given that nowadays parents are not forced to send their child to a particular school, they could always choose not to send them to a school which has compulsory showers.

Pupils should always be given the option NOT to shower. It is disgusting that with more schools having only optional showers or no shower requirement at all that some pupils are forced into nudity.

An offending institution is shown below:

https://www.heathland.hounslow.sch.uk

P.E. Kit
All items of clothing should be labelled with the pupil’s name. All jewellery must be removed prior to a lesson and pupils should ensure that any valuables are handed to a member of staff in the changing rooms.

Pupils should bring their PE kit to every lesson. If a pupil has an injury, they must still bring in their PE kit and a note as they will be asked to change and adopt a different role in the lesson (i.e. Coach/Umpire etc.)

Our requirements for PE kit:

Plain round neck white T-shirt with the Heathland crest
Navy blue shorts
White ankle sports socks
Navy blue games socks (knee length)
Navy school sweatshirt with the Heathland crest
Trainers (non-marking soles) or Astro Trainers (It would be beneficial for boys to have either Astro trainers or studded boots for their rugby lessons)
Towel – showering is compulsory
Plain navy track suit bottoms and a white base layer are allowed during the half terms either side of Christmas or in extreme weather conditions
The School’s preferred uniform supplier, School Bells, is the only shop where ‘official’ Heathland uniform (blazer, tie, jumper, P.E. T-shirt and sweatshirt) can be purchased. Other items required (e.g. shirts, trousers etc) can be purchased anywhere as long as they reflect the School’s Dress Code as outlined above.

Contact details:

School Bells
48 Bell Road
Hounslow, TW3 3PB

With new school term fast approaching in January it is time to boost child protection and not return to the barbarity of the past.