Burnley Grammar School

I did not realise that in France they still insist on men wearing swimming briefs. They are prepared as you say they haver them available for those who are unaware. I wonder what our fellow countrymen think of that. When and why did the fashion in Britain turn to shorts,(including underwear?)

Josh H, IME nudity is normal in saunas in Scandinavian and Nordic countries. A few posts back someone cited a pool in Helsinki where naked is normal though on different days for men and women, I've swum there and can attest to the accuracy of what was said.

Swimming in France requires Speedo style briefs, in anything longer or larger you simply will not be allowed in to the pool and it's in line with a national regulation. Frenchmen and others in the know turn up with the correct trunks, in the main places have a supply to loan for Brits and others who are not in the know.

Personally I prefer swimming naked which was what was required at school and for me nothing beats it.

Josh - you make a very valid point about vitamin D. For some years the hysteria about sun exposure has led to a situation where a large proportion of the population in Britain is deficient in this important vitamin. As well as being important for strong bones vitamin D is required for a healthy immune system. I wonder how many deaths from coronavirus in people with no known underlying health issues are, in fact, because the unfortunate people have poor immune systems, possibly due to vitamin D deficiency. Perhaps the authorities should be a little more sympathetic with those who wish to indulge in a bit of sun-bathing as long as social distancing is being observed.

Yes Stuart I understand that in some parts of Europe there are places where one can swim naked. Furthermore nudity seems accepted in saunas etc in Scandnavia. I feel restricted because I prefer swimming briefs which for some reason is frowned upon in this country, yet it is acceptable for ladies to wear bikinis. However when I holiday in Spain many men wear briefs although you can always tell the Brits in their long shorts, and youngsters almost completely covered up so that they get no vitamin D

FrankC yes the move to wear trunks was restrictive indeed. As soon as i could i reverted to naked swimming wherever possible usually on holiday in the far more relaxed societies of europe.
To this day i still prefer to swim nude.

In he midst of lockdown, I have just turned the pages of Men's Health, I'm a bit past that these days!

I was very interested to see that all the men demonstrating exercises and there were many were dressed in shorts and trainers and all were bare chested. Needless to say all were ripped with six packs but bare chested none the less.

Perhaps the tide is turning on being over dressed for gym.

Hi Stuart,I was twelve and a half when I started puberty so I was on par with much of my class of course with the thirteen year old lads able to cover up with trunks you would naturally feel vulnerable and exposed.I found trunks rather tight and restrictive at first after the freedom of previous years.

TO JOSH H Different times indeed. I suppose it is a shift in culture with child abuse issues. Although as a society we are more permissive barriers are put up to protect.

Hi Matthew, Yeh it would have been a good bonding experience!The other boys seemed a bit uneasy at first cupping their hands in front when we lined up in the corridor. As Stuart mentioned it was only like showering after games or football 95% we were in the water so it was something they had to get usedto

To Frank C.
Thanks to your father, at the start of term, you were quite prepared but were you aware of how the other boys felt? Did you eventually take part in galas in front of prospective pupils and their parents? Incidentally, it's a pity that you and your father weren't able to experience swimming together naked.

Biggles,
I wouldn't use the word uncomfortable or even embarrassing to be honest for me personally. Talking with a couple of old school mates I'm still in touch with they did however find it so especially in the last two years but then they were developing. For me being a "boy" throughout my time there meant it was pretty ok.
Regardless of what any boy felt it was back then just accepted and you did what you were told.

As well as the galas it was taken as being perfectly normal that there was nothing wrong in it. I recall one swimming lesson when i was about 12 . I was for some reason not in the water at the point the door to the pool opened and the head teacher walked in with a family showing them round the school. The family was mum, dad , a boy about 8 and his older sister about my age. The head even asked me a couple of questions. It was seen as normal. I didnt feel embarrassed in front of the adults,but a bit uneasy with the girl who clearly was looking with amazement!

Frank, Stewart,

I think it is one thing swimming naked between boys and swimming galas in front of spectators including women, whether school staff, parents or other guests.

Did you feel uncomfortable swimming nude in front of those guests during swim galas?
Also, were the boys' sisters allowed to watch the nude galas together with their parents?

FrankC. Sounds similar though i started my prep school age 9 in 1973. We happily swam naked at that age. The school had its own swim gala but that was just school and staff present including the very few female staff.
The gala allowed boys in the oldest year to wear trunks ( year 8s nowadays) and was held in the summer term so most were 13. It was a convention though that you only wore trunks if you had something to hide ( i.e. Had started puberty) so unfortunately for me aged still 12, august birtday, i was one of only a few naked boys in my year group. Not that i was worried about swimming naked more embarrassed that was still a boy and most of mates were not.

Nude swimming wasnt seen as anything odd, all boys, no different to showers after footie or rugby.

Frank C
It is interesting how times have changed. I note your comments about going swimming and then changing in front of other boys and dads which helped you to get used to that situation ready for your new school.
nowadays it seems most municipal swimming pools have "Changing Villages" which accommodate male & female so changing of course is done in cubicles. It is interesting that when I go to the Gym, how many of the young lads and not so young males
perhaps in their 20's only undress so far in the communal changing area and then go into the toilet cubicle to complete their change. Whereas those of us always used to communal changing just get on with it.
However, I must say a school swimming gala with every swimming in the does seem curious, especially as you say it was put on for visitors of potential pupils.

Hi Stuart, I attended a prep school late sixties.We could never have envisaged such a dire situation the world would be in in our senior years.My parents attended an Open Day May '67 with a view to me attending in the Autumn.I sat an entrance exam never imagining I would pass it as it quite complex.We were treated to a Swimming Gala in the afternoon,All the boys swam naked right from the smaller ones to the oldest.It was then I realized that if I past the exam I would be swimming naked also.In the July of that year.The prep school wrote to my parents stating that I had gained a place.My Father was very supportive knowing that I had a shy and inward personality.In the summer holidays he took me to the local swimming baths for some basic strokes and get me used to being naked after in the showers with older boys and fathers.This made me more confident in myself.When I started in the September of that year I was already looking forward to the swimming lessons and was much less shy than I would have been otherwise. Keep well everybody,keep safe.

Biggles,Stuart My boarding school didn't have a swimming pool, in fact nor did the locality. The nearest would have been around 35 miles away. It never made any difference to us and we're happy with what sports we did play.

Biggles,Stuart My boarding school didn't have a swimming pool, in fact nor did the locality. The nearest would have been around 35 miles away. It never made any difference to us and we're happy with what sports we did play.

Biggles indeed you are coreectt. My school in Surrey was a boarding/day school private and had its own swimming pool and was nude in the prep school, aged 9-13. The embarrassment of swimming naked was not even as issue at age 9. As boys hit puberty the first ones were either embarrassed or proud, whilst a couple of boys like myself had to endure not hitting puberty at all so stood out by the final year as very much boys. Luckily it was only teasing rather than anything worse.

Jono G,

Boarding schools were very different from normal day schools in many ways, including the strict and more regular physical exercise regime like you describe.

It was the same for nude swimming for boys when very few public(non-paying) schools had the luxury of a swimming pool.
In private(paying) and boarding schools it was not unusual to have a swimming pool where nude swimming was the norm for boys.

Biggles, At the boarding school I attended the start of each day was marked with an early morning run around 5.45am which, regardless of the weather, we did stripped to the waist. From Monday to Friday there was a proper timetabled PE lesson at which could be in the gym or outside. Inside we were all skins while outside teams were either all skins or skins vs vests.

Kevin,
Although it may be of some interest to recollect, I don't think that PE lessons were of such importance since they were just a once or twice weekly one hour lessons in most schools.

I think there were more important issues, which unfortunately are not featured on this site, like wearing uniforms or corporal punishment which were the norm in most schools and how they varied.

Although I genuinely tried to give of my best in every PE/Games lesson, I regularly failed to meet the teachers' expectations.

Regarding me, and others like me, as 'no hopers', they diverted their efforts to the more athletically inclined.

This led to the axiomatic situation where youngsters like myself, who would have benefitted the most from skilled coaching and encouragement, were sidelined, laughed at and punished; while the 'natural athletes' got all the doting praise and extra coaching time.

Surely the situation should have been the other way round, with those who most needed the support being given more time and encouragement, so as to develop and improve their skills.

Experiencing this situation for years left me with a conviction that any form of games/gymnastics was 'not for the likes of me' and hence I've been much less fit, all my life, than I might otherwise have been.

From the large number of views and comments on this photograph (far more than for anything else on Historyworld) it seems that the old traditional strict PE depicted made a big impression on all involved and is of continuing interest. The many comments provide a store of recollections, opinions and experiences which would be very informative for younger people and future generations. Maybe it should be made into a book or documentary.

I certainly remember communal showers, I never imagined men's showers to be any other way as it was just what we got used to.

In all other regards too, I agree with the assessment of Wallace.

I was at school in the 60s and 70s. My experiences were very much the same as those I read here:

PE was in white shorts, bare chested wearing white plimsolls, PE included gym, athletics in summer and running all year round.

Rugby was boots, shirt, shorts and socks played in the winter and spring terms.

Underpants were not allowed for either PE or rugby and being caught wearing them resulted in a bottom roasting application of the strap or slipper and even the cane if a repeat offender. One bare bottom dose of the strap convinced me to obey the rule.

Forgetting kit resulted in a dose of the cane, no exceptions, no excuses and then being told to find shorts only in the lost property box for the lesson.

Swimming was naked, it was private with only male staff present. If you had forgotten your kit you just hoped it was swimming!

Showers were communal, often cold and always compulsory.

I appreciate that for some swimming trunks were permitted but I think the rest was fairly normal fir the time.

Does anyone for instance remember having shower cubicles back then? Even now at my gym although there are a couple of cubicles the norm for showers is communal and no one seems bothered except for a few of the towel dancing boyz.

Phil,
We didn't have swimming at school, so I don't know what it would have been like to be made to swim nude as some posters describe.
More so when some posters describe that they had female teachers or instructors during nude swim lessons, although this seems to have only happened with junior boys up to 12 or so.
At least one or two posters even say that they were punished corporally by these female teachers if they misbehaved during these nude swim classes.

Other posters say that they had nude swimming galas in front of spectators, whether from inside or outside of the school.
I think some of these swim classes went too far with the boys being routinely humiliated.
I guess there is nothing wrong with boys swimming naked together, but when it goes as far as those described above it would have been a bit too much.

I wouldn't guess that Mr. Dando is a "weird troll," but I imagine that he had immodesty forced on him during his childhood and adolescence.
I also imagine that he wishes to provide for the current generation the protection which he himself had missed.

If my hunch is right, then I am in no position to criticize Mr. Dando.
I am tempted to take the opposite stance, but my motives are the same.
The whole time I was growing up, I was never seen naked by any female outside my own family.
I grew up wondering what it felt like to be naked outdoors.
So I like for boys of the present generation to get more corporeal acceptance than I got.

If I were to write up a phys ed kit, I would probably err in the opposite direction from Mr. Dando and write up something like what we see in the picture.
And I'd probably get arrested for it.

I suspect Mr Dando is just some kind of weird troll who would be best ignored

To John and Biggles,
In the experience of several posters on this site, a pair of trunks wasn't even needed for swimming.

I'm not sure what Mr Dando is trying to achieve by pursuing his diatribe on websites that are dedicated to reminiscing & discussing of what used to be. I think he seriously needs to find other sites to vent his strange views on. The fact that he seems to copy & paste p.e kit from all over the country is very weird in itself - quite obsessive in fact. I really wonder what motivates such an obsession!!