Burnley Grammar School

Mr Dando
I would say that even in the circumstances that you have described, continuing the class in vest and knickers would be ibappropruate these days. And knickers only for those girls who didn't have vests available, which I guess might well be most of them, would be even more appropriate. Did any of them have bras? And what did the girls think of it?

I am a parent, rather than a teacher, but am keen to get professionals' opinions.

My daughter is 10 and attends an mixed school on the south coast.

This week her class were doing games on the school field, in their PE kit of t shirt, shorts, socks and plimsolls. It started raining but the lesson continued. Eventually, the teacher decided it was raining too hard to continue and moved the class to the gym for the rest of the lesson. There, she said that all the pupils had to take off their wet kit and do the lesson (gymnastics) in their vest and knickers and bare feet. She did let them go and get their vests, but my daughter, along with many others, doesn't wear a vest to school. So she had to do the lesson in just her pants. Do any of you here think this is appropriate? I was appalled when my daughter told me, and am seriously considering approaching the school over this. Your reactions are welcome.

http://hawthorn.doncaster.sch.uk/parent-information/uniform/

P.E. Kit
We expect all children to change for PE, this is for hygiene as well as health and safety of the pupils. All P.E kit needs to be brought into school on Monday (am) and taken home Friday (p.m).

Pupils need a labelled bag for their kit (not a plastic carier bag) containing:

Plain black shorts
White T shirt or polo shirt
Black Pumps
Track suit top and bottoms for some outdoor activities
If you wish, children in Reception, Years 1 and 2 may wear their vest and pants for their indoor P.E. sessions but outdoor kits must be also provided as well as a pair of pumps. If your child forgets to bring P.E kit they will be allocated any spare P.E kit in school.

Please make sure all kit is marked with your child’s name and class.

Primary school for me and PE was done in knickers only with barefeet it was cheap easy and practical. When I moved upto middle school then we all upgraded and dis PE in gym knickers and a vest with bare feet and if you forgot your knickers then you did the lesson nude which surprisingly happened almost every lesson.

I think the video is more likely a gymnastic show by the boys in front of spectators.
I don't think that normal PE at any school was ever that acrobatic.

Dave Hi,
Thanks for that. I didn't know you could access videos that way.
Cheers

Hi David G!

Click on the envelope icon above his post and you can look at the video.

Hi Simeon,

Can you provide a link to have a look at the video. When I read your post there wasn't a link.
Thanks David

Hi Simeon!

Were the shirtless PE rule for boys the norm even in the 1980's or was it a rarity by then? How did you feel being shirtless in front of the girls and many parents.Were there any boy who said anyting about the PE kit or was it ever a a talking point among lads?Were your lessons seperated or mixed? How old were you at the time the display was held?
What was the PE kit for outside?

James, Danny. I too experienced nude swimming at prep school aged 9-13 and can say that i didnt find it humiliating at all. Though talking with a friend from back then he described it as embarrassing not at the beginning when we were just a bunch of little boys but from aged 11 1/2 when he started puberty as one of the first in the class so stood out. By the end of the prep school most boys were going through puberty so he was not alone. I was a late starter so whilst i wouldnt use the word humiliating or embarrassing i would probably say i was more self conscious of the difference. Overall i loved nude swimming and still do today where possible, abroad usually in places such as Scandinavia and germany where nudity doesnt carry the stigma it does in the UK.

Danny,I agree it was an an unnecessary harsh treatment and you were fortunate that you didn't experience it at your school.
Although we were both subjected to corporal punishment,may I ask how and why it was administered?
Yes,I am the same James that had nude swimming and it was humiliating,but after a while I became accustomed to it as we were not allowed to wear swimming trunks.
Did you enjoy wearing short trousers or would you have preferred to wear long trousers?

We were sent out on cross country runs whatever the weather, wearing only our standard indoor gym shorts, t-shirts, ankle socks and plimsolls (all plain white) to defend us from whatever mother nature threw at us.

Some days it was perishing cold, and the only way to counter it was to run quickly and get warmed up that way. If it rained whilst we were out (North of England - so this was often), we were soaked as well as exhausted by the time we returned to school.

It was especially galling to learn that the PE teacher had remained in school the whole time, with his feet up, reading his daily newspaper and drinking steaming hot tea or coffee.

James, we both seem to agree on this harsh treatment of boys at school.
The only difference is that you experienced it while I did not, except for the routine corporal punishment.
Are you the same James that once said on this forum that they also had to do swimming at school in the nude?
This was another humiliating treatment of boys, although one could argue that they got used to it and even enjoyed it, but certainly not for all.

Danny, My school had a mandatory stripped to the waist policy for all PE/Games for all boys age 9 to 18. We were told all outdoor PE/Games lessons were there to make us toughen up. Being stripped to the waist outside was hard, X country runs were tough but had to done or you'd be taken out of class to do laps of the field the next day. I didn't mind running stripped down though some of my friends had mixed views about it and personally, I found being stripped to exercise both indoors and outdoors was a good thing. Indoors I would normally start to show sweat around 20 mins into the lesson which gives an idea how hard we were made to work while being stripped outside it just felt good to escape the stuffiness indoors. Both were a great way to show the girls your physique naturally.

Danny,I don't see how anyone could"enjoy running and stripped and half naked across country in cold and freezing
and half naked across country in cold and freezing weather".
There is nothing manly about wearing just brief shorts and being subjected to to the torment of running in cold weather.I remember wearing just a thin pair of shorts while I held the finishing tape with another boy and our shorts offered very little protection from the cold.
As you say teachers who supervised us were dressed accordingly to the weather and wore overcoats,hats and gloves,while we simply wore shorts.
I agree that parents never complained about the use of corporal punishment and particularly my mother adored to see me wearing shorts and kept me in shorts for school and home.

Danny,
Many schools did make lads run in shorts and trainers, you might not have come across the practice but it certainly existed in many parts of the UK. I do not condone children being made to run barefoot as they could injure their feet. Being made to run shirtless did seem harsh at first but most lads soon got used to it. Back in the 60s, 70s and 1980s attitudes to the way that lads were educated were very different. My father did not have a problem with the PE kit rules which applied to me as he was treated just the same and had also been in the Army and made to swim naked in cold water in winter as part of his training.

John, doing indoor PE shirtless is one thing, but running shirtless and half naked outside on cross country on a freezing winter day is totally different and unimaginable to me.
I am surprised that some posters who claim that they did this enjoyed it or didn't bother them.

About the poster who said that his father told him that he must run outside topless no matter the weather to make him become a man is amusing to me because the same PE teachers who made the boys do this and were supposed to be an example of this 'manhood' were all wrapped up during these country runs in cold or freezing weather.

In any case I never saw anyone, boy or man, running bare chested in freezing weather, or barefoot across mud and rough ground, not even the toughest athletes do this, let alone forcing young boys to do this.

About comments that parents never complained to the schools what their boys were made to wear or not is very true.
This was also the era when corporal punishment was the norm in most schools at any age and I don't remember or knew of any parents who complained about it, including mine.
Schools and teachers were held in great respect in those days and few questioned them, which is far from the mentality of today.

I suppose there is going to be someone who says that they enjoyed getting physically punished at school, like they enjoyed running stripped and half naked across country in cold and freezing wheather. :)

Kevin,
I think that making a polo shirt optional kit for boys PE doesn’t make any sense. My dad was happy that I would be stripped to the waist for PE like he was and like your dad he would not have wasted money buying me a polo top if it was ‘optional’ as opposed to being compulsory.

Like you I got used to being shirtless and it was more comfortable. Colored bibs can be worn for one team in a shirts vs skins game so there is no need for lads to wear shirts for indoor PE.

This a video of a gym display in my old school in 1983. The boys display begins at 7:51. This shows exactly how our PE lessons were conducted with us barefeet and barechested. The almost military style of teaching and us being forbidden to talk during gymnastics is miles away from todays more 'inclusive' teaching approaches.

Good queation stuart! I think I have answered this kind of in a previous post:
I went to a comprehensive school in the 80ies which must have with hindsight just changed its PE uniform policy for boys when I arrived. We got a letter with a uniform items that needed to be bought and I went with my parents to get them just before school started. We got the main uniform and then it came to the PE kit. White shorts and a green polo shirt. So far so good, but my dad spotted on the list that the shirt was optional for boys. He made it quite clear that he would not pay for the shirt, that I would have to go barechested; he wasn't into wasting money. My mom made matters worse by pointing out that I might get cold doing PE stripped to waist which really annoyed my dad who insisted I needed to grow up to become a man.
Too cut a long story short, I wasn't given a PE shirt and had to go to my first PE lesson knowing I would not be waering a shirt which really worried my. As it turned out luckily I wasn't the only boy without a top, two other boys had to strip too. In the end I never ever wore a top for PE and actually enoyed it in the end. My PE teacher made no secret out of the fact that he tought all the boys should be stripped to the waist and he did favour the small the group of us who were.

I am from the era at an all boys school when topless pe and no underpants was the norm. As far as I know parents did not complain about or question such things. Rules were rules as I say it was the norm.

Interesting question Stuart, I suspect as well as the usual generation gaps there's going to be a difference in whether others parents also ran in such a spartan fashion in shorts and bare feet.

My dad was quite encouraging about me running the cross country shirtless and barefoot just as he had done and my mother wasnt overly concerned at all until it came to my sister and when she reported back that she had to run the cross country outside barefoot my mum was horrified but unlike parents of today she told my sister to stop whining and carry on.

Stuart, my parents never had any objection to me doing PE or cross-country minus a shirt. In fact, they were all for it and were quite happy for me to go shirt-less around the house and garden whenever I wanted to. They did, however draw the line at running over roads or fields bare-footed on safety grounds,

I wondered if anyone knew of parents who questioned (or formally objected) to their sons being made to do cross country/pe stripped to the waist and bare foot.

Or, the opposite - any parents who insisted on their sons being made to do pe/crosscountry in only shorts.

Roy,
I bet you were perfectly happy with the PE kit rules at your school. The stripped to the waist rule for boys PE continued during the 1970s when I was at school and never did me any harm.

During the summer most lads chose to strip to the waist for outdoor athletics and shirts were often removed as soon as they got off the school bus on the way home.

When I was at a mixed-sex school in the 1960s PE was organised separately for boys and girls.
For boys indoor PE kit was white shorts only i.e. you were stripped to the waist and barefoot.
For outside it was white rugby shirt and black or navy blue shorts and coloured socks and rugby boots.
However if they wanted to many boys actually took off their shirts and went stripped to the waist.
For cross-country runs again we went stripped to the waist and barefoot!

PE Kit
Children must be provided with a change of clothing for PE and games. Parents will be informed when their child is swimming and they will be informed of any special requirements for games.

A towel is needed for showering after PE.

PE Uniform
Required:

Plain white T-shirt

Black PE Shorts

Trainers

Towel

Optional for outside lessons:

Plain black/navy tracksuit

Spare socks

Swimming:

Girls: One piece costume

Boys KS2: Swimming trunks

Boys KS3/4: Swimming shorts.

http://www.frednicholson.norfolk.sch.uk/

Mr Dando. Good to see that some schools still require kids to shower after sports. Hygiene appears to have been sacrificed on the altar of " being scared to undress in font of your own peers".
We showered after muddy games of rugby because we needed to get clean, if you were shy then you just had to get on ith it. You soon realised that everyone ha is different size, shape etc but in the end we were all boys.

https://www.corpuschristihs.co.uk/school-info/physical-education-guide

PE in the School

Since the school came into being in 1987, Corpus Christi has enjoyed a highly successful record with regard to representation in city, county and national finals of various sports. Our pupils have also achieved individual success domestically and internationally in a multitude of activities ranging from rugby, athletics, netball, soccer, gymnastics and swimming, to triathlon, boxing, basketball and martial arts.

Some Practical Points

In order for children to benefit from the PE expertise and facilities in the school, we ask for parents' cooperation in the following practical points.

1. Permission for a pupil not to take part temporarily in PE/Games will be given only on medical grounds, when a letter to that effect is received from parents. For a prolonged withdrawal from these lessons a doctor's certificate is required.

2. The wearing of jewellery is not permitted. This is to avoid possible injury to pupils. No responsibility can be accepted by the school for any items lost during these lessons, whether or not the items have been deposited with the teacher in charge.

3. PE/Games clothing has been kept as simple as possible for the benefit of all concerned. However, separate clothing is required to avoid wear and tear on school uniform, to soak up perspiration and to avoid any adverse effects of inclement weather. It is clearly essential that pupils can change back into clean, dry clothes including underwear, after their games or PE lessons. It is also necessary for reasons of health and personal hygiene, that all pupils bring a towel with their kit for a shower after games.

4. When pupils are involved in extra-curricular activities the department will try to ensure that all necessary information such as the date of the activities, the venue, arrangements for transport, the start and finish times are made available for the pupil well in advance of the event. We ask parents to ensure that suitable arrangements are made for pupils to return home afterwards.



5. PE Kit : requisition forms, on which parents may specify the relevant measurements of their child, are sent out to the partner Primary Schools and to individual families in advance of the Welcome Evening which is held in June each year. These should be returned to the suppliers properly completed, and with the necessary payment for the kit. All items of PE clothing will then be available in September.

Further to my earlier reply to Danny, I should have added that a few early developers had started to wear training bras before they left primary school, whereas some didn't need them until well into the second year at secondary.

The jockstrap and box my son wore for cricket was as described by Chris G.