Burnley Grammar School

There has been much talk of the old policies of having boys and girls topless for mixed sex gym classes. Girls topless up to the age where they required bras. There has also been much talk about boys swimming nude. There is a Facebook site from Shears Green Primary School in Kent which has comments from former students remembering how the boys had nude swimming on Mondays, the girls had nude swimming on Wednesdays and both boys and girls had nude swimming together on Fridays. Some of the comments from the girls showed that they looked forward to the mixed swimming.

Ian,
Where there also female visitors who saw the boys showering naked?
Were you also belted bare in front of visitors?
What was their reaction?

I understand that you had to do what you were told without question in those days but this seems to have been too sadistic and humiliating to me.

Further to the comments about visits,my school always used to include the gymnasium in any visitor's tour. Two dozen lads wearing nothing except skimpy shorts being relentlessly put through their paces by a teacher barking commands and blowing his whistle must have been a memorable feature of any guest's visit.
On several occasions a boy was slippered with visitors present.I imagine the visitors approved the firm discipline.

In response to Ian and Andy, I too was at school in the 60's and remember only too well the same rules as you mentioned in your comments. The belt was seen by many teachers as just another 'teaching aid' and used frequently and with force.

With regard to following instructions the ONLY acceptable response was 'Yes, Sir'! There was no alternative response!

Despite what is mentioned, I never saw any benefit in educating children within an environment where the threat of corporal punishment hung over their heads on a daily basis.

Ken,
There weren't many visits - usually only a couple of visits per term.
Our school was a large boys grammar and the new head of PE was introducing a really tough new regime in the secondary school. The local authority used to send a few officials to check on progress. Quite a few teachers and trainees came to see how things were being done. Fathers occasionally visited, either from curiosity or concern about their sons.
Some visitors would just pop in and out after a chat with the teacher. Those staying a whole period would see us being ordered to strip then shower. The teacher would supervise us accompanied by the guests.
This happened at an age from 11 to 18, but 14 to 16 seemed to happen most often. My theory is that was when most corporal punishment was used and visitors wanted to see boys being belted and belted hard.
There was a rumour about our teacher, described as "always belting" on Friends Reunited, that he'd been asked to move on from an English boys school because he was too keen on the cane and that he'd been head hunted by our school. I have been able to corroborate the former using the internet.

Ian,

You said that "there were occasions when visitors were present" during your showers.
What kind of visitors were they, did they see the boys showering naked and how old were you boys?

In response to Michael's comments about obeying without question, reminds me of an article I read written by Baden Powell during my leadership training as a Scout Leader. He was sailing on a small dinghy with his elder brother when his brother shouted get down. Apparently the boom was about to swing towards where B.P. was. He said that if he had questioned the instruction/order then he would have been swept off the boat into the sea. Hence the necessity sometimes to obey without question and why he included that in the Scout Laws.
Of course p.e. being done in bare feet and in shorts with no underwear these days will not happen.

In the 1960s/70s we always had showers after PE and they were always cold. The reason was the same as why we were not allowed to wear underpants, it was to make men of us.

Neither did any harm and I loved PE.

Ian's comment about obeying the teacher's instructions, reminded me of an incident at my primary school, where we used the assembly hall for many purposes including PE.

It was approaching Christmas and the hall was bedecked with colourful decorations, including a tall tree and many streamers pinned around the walls and hanging from the ceiling.

My class was in the middle of a dance routine when the teacher blew his whistle unusually loudly, and we all stopped immediately as we had been trained to do.

The teacher had noticed a streamer had fallen to the floor, carrying a drawing pin in its end. His prompt action almost certainly prevented a member of my class (all in bare feet) from stepping on it.

This demonstrated to all of us, how important it was to do as we were told, without hesitation.

In response to your final comment Ian, i.e. obey without question, it reminds me of one of the original Scout Laws I was brought up with as given below.
A SCOUT OBEYS ORDERS of his patrol-leader, or scout master without question. Even if he gets an order he does not like, he must do as soldiers and sailors do, he must carry it out all the same because it is his duty; and after he has done it he can come and state any reasons against it: but he must carry out the order at once. That was discipline, and usually accepted as part of life.

Showers, stripped naked, were compulsory at my school in the 60s - after gym periods, before and after the swimming and after games. The punishment for trying to skip showers was six of the belt given full force by the PE master. I found this out the hard way!
Cold showers in front of the rest of the class were also used as punishment.
There were occasions when visitors were present, but we taught to obey our PE teacher's orders without hesitation.

At my old grammar school we had PE/Games sessions three times a week, followed by a compulsory shower. The water temperature was regulated by the teacher from toasty warm to freezing cold.

There was some speculation that this depended on the teacher's opinion of how well we had worked during the session, but of course there was no proof of this.

But, whatever the water temperature, there never seemed to be sufficient time allowed to get properly towel dried afterwards. This meant that one was either late for the next lesson - resulting in a detention - or in time but still dripping wet.

One teacher commented that my class always arrived for her lesson looking like 'drowned rats'!

The research goes on. Let us not forget there are many pupils returning to school with dread tomorrow. I will end school showers, topless swimming for boys, skorts for girls and allow both boys and girls to wear tracksuits and base layers all year round for full body modesty. All pupils should change in gender nuetral cubicles so they do not see each other naked.

There are still some schools that insist on towel for showers!

http://www.corneliusvermuyden.com/parent/uniform.html



UNIFORM & PE KIT

Wearing uniform is obligatory; all pupils must comply with the school's uniform code. Not only does the uniform and smartness of our pupils add to the school's image and prestige in the wider community, but it contributes to a business-like atmosphere conducive to achievement.

A high standard of appearance is required at all times and is integral to all pupils time at Cornelius Vermuyden.

BOYS
Plain black blazer with the school badge
Plain black v-neck pullover with yellow stripe round neck
Plain white shirt with collar
School tie (to be worn at all times)
Plain black trousers
Plain black socks
Sensible plain black shoes without decoration (no trainers or sling backs)
Plain coat or anorak, preferably in a dark colour
Boys Indoor PE Kit
Black and gold shorts
Black and gold polo shirt with collar and logo
White/black sport socks
Trainers (laced, non-marking, no converse/vans/huarache or fashion shoes)
Black athletics short (compulsory if selected to represent in athletics or cross country)
PE planner
Boys Outdoor PE Kit
Black and gold rugby shirt
Black and gold shorts
Plain black jogging bottoms (optional)
Black and gold hooded sweatshirt with logo (optional)
Black and amber waterproof (optional)
Black football socks
Football boots
Towel
Gumshield
PE planner
GIRLS
Plain black blazer with the school badge
Plain black v-neck pullover with yellow stripe round neck
plain white shirt with collar
School tie (to be worn at all times)
Plain black pleated skirt (school approved style) with hem no more than 2'' above the knee and not below the mid-calf
Plain black trousers - optional
Plain black socks
Plain black or natural tights
Sensible plain black shoes without decoration (no trainers or sling backs)
Plain coat or anorak, preferably in a dark colour
Girls PE Kit
Black and gold shorts/skort
Black and gold polo shirt with collar and logo
Black and gold hooded sweatshirt with logo
White sport socks (will need black football socks for girls football and hockey)
Trainers (laced, non-marking, no converse/vans/huarache or fashion shoes)
Black athletics shorts (compulsory if selected to represent in athletics or cross country)
Plain black jogging bottoms (optional)
Black/white sports socks
Black and amber waterproof (optional)
Hairband
Towel
PE planner

Please lets show true 2020 vision and have no nudity in the New year term.

Would the schools be offended by Mr Dando's observations, or would they dismiss them out of hand on the ground that what is asserted without evidence should be dismissed without evidence? Showers are not self-evidently abusive and to keep asserting that they are without offering any evidence, justification or analysis is a pretty pointless exercise. I should, however, like to thank Mr Dando for his research since it has revealed that some schools do still have showers, which is heartening in itself.

A bit harsh, possibly even actionable, to describe a school that requires children entrusted to its care to shower after exercise as "an offending institution", when this requirement is explicitly stated in its policies.

Mr Dando,
Given that nowadays parents are not forced to send their child to a particular school, they could always choose not to send them to a school which has compulsory showers.

Pupils should always be given the option NOT to shower. It is disgusting that with more schools having only optional showers or no shower requirement at all that some pupils are forced into nudity.

An offending institution is shown below:

https://www.heathland.hounslow.sch.uk

P.E. Kit
All items of clothing should be labelled with the pupil’s name. All jewellery must be removed prior to a lesson and pupils should ensure that any valuables are handed to a member of staff in the changing rooms.

Pupils should bring their PE kit to every lesson. If a pupil has an injury, they must still bring in their PE kit and a note as they will be asked to change and adopt a different role in the lesson (i.e. Coach/Umpire etc.)

Our requirements for PE kit:

Plain round neck white T-shirt with the Heathland crest
Navy blue shorts
White ankle sports socks
Navy blue games socks (knee length)
Navy school sweatshirt with the Heathland crest
Trainers (non-marking soles) or Astro Trainers (It would be beneficial for boys to have either Astro trainers or studded boots for their rugby lessons)
Towel – showering is compulsory
Plain navy track suit bottoms and a white base layer are allowed during the half terms either side of Christmas or in extreme weather conditions
The School’s preferred uniform supplier, School Bells, is the only shop where ‘official’ Heathland uniform (blazer, tie, jumper, P.E. T-shirt and sweatshirt) can be purchased. Other items required (e.g. shirts, trousers etc) can be purchased anywhere as long as they reflect the School’s Dress Code as outlined above.

Contact details:

School Bells
48 Bell Road
Hounslow, TW3 3PB

With new school term fast approaching in January it is time to boost child protection and not return to the barbarity of the past.

Helen R,
We were never given the option of wearing a top once we developed chest hair. The rule was strictly stripped to the waist for gym, some lads tried to appeal and had parents write letters saying why their son had a health issue that required them to be allowed to wear a top but no exceptions were ever made.

The PE kit list sent to parents indicated that a top could be worn for outdoor PE such as athletics but several PE teachers ignored this and made all lads do athletics shirtless. The stripped to the waist rule was done for health and safety reasons to prevent lads being injured from tops falling over their heads whilst using wall bars and for hygiene because showers were not available after gym classes (only after football which was a longer period and there was enough time to have a shower before the next lesson)

Sorry if my question seemed odd. Obviously I know having a hairy chest does not stop you exercising, I just thought the schools may allow you to wear tops when you reached this point.

Mr Dando,
From reading the comments on this blog and from my own experience lads disliked being a skin when shirts vs skins games were played. The anxiety was created because lads didn’t know if the PE teacher was going to pick them to be on the skins team, if selected they then had to strip to the waist and felt self conscious in front of the lads that were still wearing shirts.

Whereas for gym classes all lads got changed & stripped to the waist and put on shorts and pumps or trainers and everyone was treated fairly and no lad was made to feel different; you all entered the gym shirtless and soon worked up a sweat. The PE teacher made us work hard and we didn’t have time to reflect that we were shirtless. Shirtless gym class was more comfortable than being made to wear a shirt, all lads were treated equally and it was in no way abusive or inappropriate.

There is no need to ban shirtless gym lessons for lads, I suggest that shirts vs skins games are not necessary as coloured bibs, armbands or sashes can be worn to distinguish teams.

Mr Dando

Whitburn Church of England Academy

"PE Uniform
Essential
Academy PE polo shirt or Academy long-sleeved multisport top
Academy PE shorts
Academy PE socks
Shin pads and football boots
Trainers
Mouth Guard for contact rugby and hockey"

"Student Showers
Pupils are expected to shower after taking part in PE lessons as it is unhygienic to remain unwashed after vigorous physical activity. However, we would like to assure you that your modesty and safety have been taken into account when designing the changing rooms and the cubicles are for individuals. You will therefore need to bring a towel and soap/shampoo on the days that you have PE."

SO -
NO topless PE
NO communal showers

THEREFORE -
NO PROBLEM!

It is time to show some 2020 vision and ban shirtless pe along iwth compulsory showers.

https://www.whitburncofeacademy.org/school-life/uniform/pe-uniform.html

Student Showers
Pupils are expected to shower after taking part in PE lessons as it is unhygienic to remain unwashed after vigorous physical activity. However, we would like to assure you that your modesty and safety have been taken into account when designing the changing rooms and the cubicles are for individuals. You will therefore need to bring a towel and soap/shampoo on the days that you have PE.

Danny,
Like you the question struck me as a strange one! I can't imagine why you'd think that having chest hair might be a reason for a boy to be excused from going shirtless.
I also felt self-conscious about having hair on my chest before my 15th birthday. Unlike many of the posters here, we didn't have a shirtless PE uniform at my boys only school - this was in the 80s - but we often did team sports with one team in 'skins'. So for a while I was quite apprehensive about PE lessons and the prospect of having to do it with my top off.
I did get some sarcastic remarks from one or two of my classmates when I was a skin and they saw my chest hair, which at first made me feel like some kind of freak. What a relief a few weeks later, when I noticed another boy who had been chosen for the skins team and took his top off to reveal a hairy chest! Suddenly not being the only one made a big difference and I gradually became a lot more confident.
It's interesting you say the boys who were still smooth were jealous of the hairier lads, maybe it was the same in my school?

Helen R, I don't see what having a hairy or smooth chest has got to do about it. I had a hairy chest at age 14/15 and even facial hair and some of the still smooth boys were jealous about it, although I felt a bit self-conscious about it.

It had some advantages though, as when I was allowed to enter a cinema theatre where an 18 plus film was showing since I looked older with my moustache while the other boys my age were not allowed in, even though they may have been taller than me but still with a smooth face. :)

I was in a boys only secondary school, but do you think that girls would have been more interested in hairy chested boys than the smooth ones doing PE if it was a mixed school?

Helen R,
The rule for all lads was shirtless PE. Some lads developed chest hair earlier than others but by age 14/15 many lads had chest hair and continued to do PE shirtless. Lads did PE with other lads and not with girls, so there was no problem.

Hi, Were you all still expected to go exercise topless if you had a hairy chest?

Having a shower after PE or cross-country is a matter of personal hygiene and nothing to do with abuse

Hi Simon S,
We didn’t get pulled out of lessons to do laps of the field but if we misbehaved during outdoor PE lessons we’d be made to do laps of the field. They were done barechested, I didn’t mind this punishment as I enjoyed running. I was totally happy to shower naked communally after sports too, it was hygienic and not weird or in any way abusive.

It is more than 30 years since the passing of the Childrens Act in 1989. The time has now come to outlaw the dreaded school shower!

https://www.grange-park-school-kent.co.uk/

P.E. Kit


Navy shorts or Navy tracksuit bottoms

Sky blue polo shirt with the school logo* or white round neck t-shirt

Trainers

A towel, shower gel and deodorant will also be needed for showering.

*These items are available/can be ordered through our uniform supplier

Caseys Schoolwear.

Hi John, You're right it would have been a lot worse running in a sopping wet t-shirt or vest than just going out barechested. We also did laps of the field the same way though we were pulled out of lessons to do them and then you had to catch up later. Did you experience this?