Burnley Grammar School

Andrew R, you say your lesson were hard because you do not know pe lessons in military school. First rule: gym kit was shorts and plimsolls, so that when we changed, we went outside restroom shirtless, no chance of having shirt on. Second rule: if you didn’t reach particular goals in tests inside the gym, you could try again, but outside, regardless weather (Remember you were shirtless). Third rule: if you didn’t reach goals outside, you received a warning. Fourth rule: after three warning, it was better to pray, because you had to be punished. Punishment wasn’t always the same. It changed according to teacher’s thought. I was punished several time at the beginning and it was very painful. The worst time, I remember, it was raining and temperature was around 38/40 F. In the ground, there were like rings used to open manholes. I was obliged to lie to the ground on my back, then my wrists were tied with a rope to that rings. Just imagine the scene, I was lying on the ground with my bare chest on the open air, with rain which hit me. It lasted 20 minutes. During these minutes I couldn’t move due to the rope. At the end I was untied and I could go inside. I think it was the worst punishment I have ever received.

Jo, I found your post interesting. My PE/Games lessons were hard and as William said there was no place to hide. Laps of the field awaited anyone lacking effort and you'd be run into the ground at the end to teach you a lesson. I had the same PE teacher throughout school and he knew everyone's strengths and weaknesses.

Outdoors I and a couple of others were picked to strip off every time while for others it wasn't as frequent. I wish I knew why as our indoor kit was barechested for all.

Andrew and Willy, Nude swimming at boys' schools has surfaced before in this discussion: try February, March and December last year for starters.

It is curious the idea of nude swimming but its so hard to know the details about it because I think the participants are of a generation that aren't often net users, no longer with us or just don't think its odd enough to them to warrant any mention. I didnt give my (limited) PE kit that much thought until hearing what is worn today and others sharing their stories.
Swimsuits for males are a more recent invention than for females so its stands to reason men/boys didnt wear them and that was the norm until some point presumably as mixed swimming in public became common.

Several posters have mentioned that they had nude swimming classes for boys at school.
How common was this practice and when did it cease, if it ceased at all?
We didn't have the luxury of a swimming school at the schools I went to, or knew other schools that had.

Some have even mentioned that they had swimming galas also in the nude in front of family members as spectators, including girls like sisters. Was this also common?
Also was there an age limit when the boys had to swim nude, since some mention that this was only for juniors up to 13 or so, after which they wore swimsuits.

It seems that the only thing that kids practice today is sitting at the computer playing video games and looking at their mobiles and tablets.
We didn't have such gadgets when we were kids and so spent most of our time outside school or holidays playing outside.
We even organized athletic races between us or played football. Unlike today's kids it was a constant physical activity when outside of school or after school.
Girls would be jumping ropes in the street and other such activities.
Yes, fat or overweight kids were very rare.

I know "things were different in my day" circa mid 60's, but I think the problem with P.E. nowadays like all subjects it is results and target driven. For P.E. my teenage son P.E. just seems to be football, cricket dodge ball or some other organised games. Any gymnastics is for the "top set" only who actually are going for a GCSE grade in the subject. This means other pupils miss out on the actual exercise that we all had to do.
Furthermore until we left school at 16 we always had to go swimming at the local swimming pool each week. Summer & winter. We did wear trunks of the briefs style(that really was all that was available and what all males wore. So P.E. sports & swimming was minimal clothing and that was that.
How times have changed. When I go to the swimming pool at my gym, I see that teen lads are not only wearing longish swimming shorts, it is apparent from waistbands that are showing, that they also wear their boxer shorts under their swim shorts!! Why? It cannot be for support because most swim shorts have a netting inside as a support.

The "softly softly" approach is already causing problems with obesity on the increase among children

The present "softly softly" approach to school PE/Games activities is creating big health problems for the future.

If we can't get the present generation "match fit" while they're young, there won't be a second chance later on, and they will go into adulthood without ever having broken sweat. It will be an obesity nightmare, if it isn't already.

I hated my PE/Games lessons because of the bullying style of teaching with plenty of corporal punishment on offer. But, even I have to admit that getting fit at that age, stood me in good stead later on.

Hi William and John,interesting comments.
I think my 2 would benefit from that kind of teaching, especially being outside topless. It's crazy to realise the eldest hasn't been made to sweat at all during his PE/Games lessons. There needs to be some common sense applied. I went to a mixed schools and was so natural to see boys of all ages topless on any day, indoors and outside. For them it was all part of being toughened up.

Jo, Yes,we were put through our paces. We could not get away with being slack or lazy. But the school recognised that some boys were better than others. There were things I could hardly do in gym, but what mattered was making the effort.

Every gym lesson started with 20 star jumps. We ran about a lot and did the usual exercises. We certainly got warm and minimal clothing was ideal. No-one flouted the "no pants" rule. We were never checked but you can see from the photo that on the ropes or beam it would have been obvious if a boy had been wearing anything under his shorts.

I've heard that some schools today don't push their pupils hard physically because failure might undermine confidence and even cause mental health problems. We just did not think like that. If you were bad at gym you would be good at something else in the school. Swings and roundabouts - just like real life.

Jo,
I think that your concerns highlight the positive benefits of single sex Senior Schools. Boys need to be able to grow and develop their own identity and this can be accomplished more effectively without having to pander to the needs of girls.

Some of my PE teachers were ex Army and certainly knew how to put lads through their paces and make us sweat. We were worked hard and made fit and healthy and soon got used to doing gym and cross country shirtless and came to prefer not being made to wear a shirt or vest.

Andy, William. I couldnt agree more. As ive said before here my school had PE and games every week, all boys plus nude swimming indoors up to year 8 as it is called now. We played rugby, had Pe in shorts and white t shirt, often had skins v shirts games, were slippered if you were naughty, compulsory naked showers but looking back never felt it was abuse at all, we were fit, no kids were fat, we exercised a lot and there was no issues about being naked in front of other boys, it was normal.
It amazes me today kids dont wash after exercise and that just seems so unhealthy, whilst the levels of obesity seem to be growing as we have generations who don't do any exercise and eat crap food. Im only in my early 50s but do despair at what I see.
The implications for society and our health service are immense.
I think a good grounding in healthy exercise sets up a person for life, and so many now dont do any exercise at all.
I cant imagine how hard it must be for PE teachers today to get some kids motivated for games especially in secondary schools

Hi William, Your school was more practical than todays are. You mentioned you went topless for athletics and cross country too along with gym which seems a sensible approach. Were you pushed by your teachers to sweat when you were being put through your paces either indoors or outside or am I expecting too much from my 2?

Jo, I was at a boys' grammar school in the 1960s. Gym kit was minimal: white shorts, vest and plimsolls. We hardly ever wore the vest so that didn't wear out, and it was the practice to keep the shorts for as long as possible, turning over the waist to keep them up when the elastic got slack. We wore the same kit for athletics and cross-country. I never saw a tracksuit or jockstrap. For rugby and hockey we had dark shorts and two shirts of different colours. My shirts were second hand. It made sense for shirts which had become too small to be sold to younger boys.

Gym was never a comfort zone for me. I quickly got used to no pants under shorts, no top and the communal showers, but I was never very keen on gym, except for playing "pirates" at the end of term, which was great fun. I was no good at vaults, handstands (another boy held our legs) or somersaults, but I had to do my best because discipline was strict and protest was out of the question.

I think the regime did toughen us. Child protection hadn't been thought of so we never felt vulnerable (we were certainly not abused) and because we didn't think we had any rights we never worried about them being infringed. It was rigorous but we were happy. If children aren't pushed out of their comfort zones how do they learn what they are capable of?

Hi guys, when I read these messages I remembered what happened to us. We usually do or with a shirt on outside and shirtless inside. Teacher said that it was the general rule. But if something went wrong, then there was punishment. Regardless other post, our punishment was quite simple, you have to go outside as you were, with nothing on your chest. It doesn’t seem a punishment, unless we weren’t in a very cold region of Scotland, where in winter it always rained, and it often turned to sleet or hail. Our teacher said, you must stay outside and “survive” so that you weren’t obligated to run, but obviously it was recommended if you didn’t want to feel cold. I was punished sometimes and I remember when I had to stay outside for 45 minutes with snow, I was shirtless and the only thing I could do was to run. I still remember sweat on my chest that made me feel warm. That was a strange feeling, half of my chest was covered in snow, the other half by sweat.

to quote Ian
"but we went out on a showery, gusty, freezing cold day in the mid 60s in Scotland. Shorts, plimsolls and jockstraps for us, but our PE master in tracksuit, gloves and scarf with the hood up. On the final mile (of five) it turned to sleet" ... it's what made you and my hubby real men!!

Hi Sterling, you're spot on the cost of boys PE kit is mad. I have 2 boys at school which makes things challenging. Things like a Football/rugby top is £45, a hoodie another £40, don't mention trainers.. At least this year they're both at the same school but even so. I raised the kit with the school but was told "it's to give a sense of identity with everyone wearing the same thing"

I have questioned the school's approach and do not think they do enough for boys. It bothers me things are too weighted in favour of girls, for example my eldest has never sweated in a PE class. The boys need their identity too and this is not happening. There's loads of comments about doing PE in just shorts or with a vest and shorts. Either way is fine with me. It would give them both a different experience and take them out of a comfort zone for a couple of lessons while they got used to it,and that's no bad thing. I know my 2 wouldn't object especially in gym. Who knows they may be made to work a lot harder than they currently do. While safeguarding is an issue, just going in shorts and a bare chest or a vest and shorts would be more practical for them and also save me unnecessary expense which just goes into school coffers. I'd be really interested to see what others think.

Ian, in our school hail wasn’t the real problem. As I said, losers went out shirtless despite bad weather. One time I was one of the winners so I had to run with a shirt and I also had my friend’s shirt. I like running shirtless so I made the terrible mistake of giving back my friend his shirt. As the rules said, I was obliged to take off my shirt and that I did, I toke it off and run shirtless. However, my friends organised a terrible joke. They hide both shirt which I used to run and the other one I had in class. When it started raining I was happy, because I like going shirtless. The problem was that it started snowing and teacher said that we could take on shirt; but I haven’t any one. I was the only one who was shirtless in a snowstorm. School gym was far so I could only run. That was a strange feeling but also an exciting one, so that after lesson, I had to go back home by bus, but I haven’t any shirt. I said to my self: “ no problem, you run shirtless, you could go back home shirtless” and that’s what I did

Ian, thanks for posting that excellent clip from Leyton. Gym at my boarding school (all boys) in the 1960s was very like that and it brought back many happy memories.

One of the things most notable in the clip was that no lad was fat unlike the lardy lads you see today. The school regime I was part of certainly didn't allow a lad a chance to put on weight.

Six mornings a week (except Sunday) we were out for a run at 06.30, the course was either two miles or four miles dressed in shorts and plimsolls whatever the weather. On finishing the run it was straight into the outdoor pool, in winter the first lads there sometimes had to break the ice. We always swam naked although we had trunks for sports day but that was the only time we wore them.

Every lunch time there was 90 minutes of games or PE or cross country before afternoon school started. We only had shirts for rugby and everything else was white shorts, plimsolls and a coloured armband.

I loved it and wouldn't have changed anything about it, they were great days.

Simon D,
Great to hear that you also enjoyed PE. I completely agree that it was much better not having to wear a top. I’m thankful for the toughening up regime, on reflection it was a good thing and a positive experience.

Given the huge change in PE, compared to what Baby Boomers experienced, is it any wonder the NHS is at breaking point. The large amount of obese and/or unfit teenagers we have today spells big trouble ahead.

I have read that cash strapped parents now have to pay £150 for a High School PE kit. A kit they may never break sweat in and outgrow quickly.

Simon D
I never experienced hailstones on a run, but we went out on a showery, gusty, freezing cold day in the mid 60s in Scotland. Shorts, plimsolls and jockstraps for us, but our PE master in tracksuit, gloves and scarf with the hood up. On the final mile (of five) it turned to sleet. The cars on the road had lights on and some of them tooted on seeing us. Bizarrely I realised at that point I was actually enjoying the experience and liked shirtless running ever since.
In the gym, the "strip" command was issued at the end of the period. We were expected to obey instantly (as with all this orders) or face the consequences. Even if there were visitors. We then had to file into the showers in an orderly manner.
PE was hard - circuit training, vaulting, ropes, wallbars, medicine balls, indian clubs etc. - so we really needed the shower.
As you say, it taught discipline and fitness and always respected my teacher who was also a very strict disciplinarion.
Also, I found this clip on the web:

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-secondary-school-gymnastics-leyton-county-high-school-for-boys-1936-online

Our gym period was harder, although I was impressed by the vaulting. The PE teachers do appear but fully clad with boys in shorts and plimsolls. I have always felt that wearing PE kit demonstrated the authority of the master over the boys.

Hi John, if I gave the impression I didn't enjoy my PE/Games lessons it wasn't the case.There was a real emphasis placed on PE and toughening up with a double lesson timetabled for each day. Each session was hard and unrelenting both inside and out. In the gym it didn't take too long before each boy showed sweat, despite my skinny physique I started to sweat up (my teachers phrase!) quite early on in a lesson so I was very pleased my vest was off! My teachers also made sure my vest was off outside too when doing anything other than cross country for which each boy ran bare chested. I did have to wear a vest for the inter class basketball matches. As each team played one half in a vest before going to skins for the other half, it wasn't too bad. I'm grateful for what it did for me and it instilled discipline into us all too.

Chris G,
I supposed it’s just what you’re used to and your experience was simply different from my experience. A shirtless PE rule was introduced for boys at Primary School when I was 9. Lads got undressed and stripped to the waist in front of girls, we then walked down corridors barechested on our way to the school hall where we did PE. We were seen by other classes, teachers and sometimes parents as we walked to the hall.

At Senior School lads got changed into shorts and pumps in the changing room and entered directly into the gym already stripped to the waist. We also did cross country in shorts and trainers and barechested. If you were selected to be on the skins team to play football, the PE teacher would say ‘shirts off lads’, if it was warm enough we’d play skins vs skins and were given different coloured bibs to wear to distinguish teams.

Like you I enjoyed the freedom of being allowed to exercise stripped to the waist.

John - not a strange practice at all. My school was about 50/50 boarding and day boys and we all used the boarders dormitory cubicles for changing. This meant two sets of stairs and a long corridor to the gym, and we were expected to wear our tops for this. This we did for the first couple of weeks, stripping off once we reached the gym. However once the no-vest-on-PE-days fashion caught on, virtually nobody bothered to take a vest to wear for just the few minutes that it took us to get toand from the gym.

Hi John, Honestly I don't think it bothered anyone, especially in the gym where we were all expected to show sweat during each lesson. I w tended to sweat up a little earlier than some of my friends so not wearing a vest was a good thing. It was the same outside we'd line up and be picked into teams of vests and skins until the beginning of December we'd regularly play football in shirts vs vests. Cross country was performed everyone with everyone bare chested with no exception. I don't think it was harsh telling us to "strip to the waist" or "strip" We knew what they expected but knew they'd look after us at the same time. No one wants teachers who were to "friendly" that would be creepy.

Simon D,
Your school seemed to operate a strange practice, if your PE teacher always made lads strip to the waist in the gym there was no point in putting a top on the the changing room. It would have made more sense to come out the changing room shirtless. Did you never think that this was a bit of a waste of time?.

Hi David, we did go out to run in heavy rain. I don't recall thunderstorms but definitely remembered hail stones. Now they did hurt!

Our teachers used the phrase "strip to the waist" or simply "strip off" at the start of the lesson. At that point we removed our vests and dropped them in a line at the front of the gym where the girls could easily see them.