Burnley Grammar School

Absolutely John. Presumably you're also a sensible guy.Nothing wrong with sleeping naked!!!!

Stuart - what was your PE kit when you were at Caterham, vest or topless?

Rob,
I take it that you’re a sensible guy who prefers to sleep naked.

I can't remember when I last owned a pair of pyjamas and my wife gets concerned that I am not feeling well if I wear my boxers in bed.

CJ,
Pyjamas are restrictive, bunch up and make you too hot in bed. I don’t know any guy who doesn’t sleep shirtless, my mates either sleep naked or wear boxers to bed. Most people have centrally heated homes, pyjamas are from an era when people’s homes were cold.

Fiona
Nothing wrong with PJs !!!!

Hi guys, when i went to school, we had a strange policy on being shirtless. Our pe teacher let us run and took the time. We were with shirt on. After a week, we run another time on the same track, and if our time wasn’t faster than the time before, we had a warning. After two warning (which means after two times we weren’t able to improve our time, we had to do lesson without a shirt, which means we gave our shirt to the teacher and each time we had pe we took off our shirt (which we wore in class) and cannot wear anything. We would have received our shirt only if we were able to improve time for 5 time in a row, which was very difficult because winter is cold and we have to run under rain, wind, hail, snow without anything on our top. I remember when there were 20 F and I had to run under a hailstorm with nothing on my chest... but that was the rule

Stuart, either a very clear reference to sleeping without nightwear, as you say, or an acceptance that pupils of senior school age might have given up conventional nightwear in favour of underwear. I favour your interpretation, and it's the first indication that I have seen of a boarding school acknowledging that, in the 21st century, not everyone wears PJS!

hi Kenton,
yes it was early 90’s, an allboys school. I would have been 13 when we had to divide into skins and shirts for the first time. I remember being very shy and self conscious about taking my shirt off in the gym and standing there topless, the lesson felt endless. It probably didn’t help that I wasnt very good at team games so tended to be more aware of my bare chest, as I never really got into the game. I definitely felt naked - once my T shirt came off and got put on the bench, all i was left wearing was a tiny pair of white shorts!

Hi Fiona thanks for the research. I'm not sure when the nude swimming was ended probably in the late 1970s and well before the school went mixed in 1995. Times have indeed changed. I wasnt a boarder so have no knowledge of sleepwear back then but as you say a very clear reference there now to sleeping without it.

Stuart, your comments re nude swimming at Caterham Prep School in the 1970s prompted me to look at the current Caterham School uniform requirementsfor two reasons.

Firstly, contrary to your experience nearly half a century ago, swimwear is now definitely specified for boys and girls of all ages.

Secondly, the uniform list for boarders contains the following line item:

Nightwear- (if used) at least 2 sets. One dressing gown/towelling robe

Does this mean that use of nightwear by boarders is not obligatory? I'm a bit surprised to see it spelled out so explicitly, although given contemporary attitides and habits, it's probably better than requiring parents to provide nightwear that their offspring have no intention or inclination to wear.

Pete, reference your comment re nude swimming. I understand that nowadays it may seem far fetched but it definitely happened both here in the UK and in America where there is a wealth of evidence online especially relating to the YMCAs.
I can honestly say that between 1971 and 1975 my older brother and I swam naked at Caterham Prep School in Surrey aged 9 - 13 and I know it continued there for at least another couple of years after then.
Showers after games were compulsory both there and at my senior school Portsmouth GS up until what is now year 11.
It was normal and most of us were just used to it and it didnt seem odd, you got filthy playing rugby so you showered afterwards.

I thought it was barking mad that boys' Mum's would insist on the wearing of vests under a shirt, Pullover, Blazer and or Coat. Then on the same cold winter mornings, when we had cross country, vests were banned and bare chests were compulsory!

Toby P,
I wish that my dad had made me sleep shirtless at 9 years old like you, I had the embarrassment of being made to take pyjamas to school camp aged 12 and finding that most of the lads slept shirtless. I don’t approve of your dad making you stand in the coal shed though, apart from that he sounds a great dad.

Hi Graham, my dad never approved of vests. He stopped me wearing a t shirt for bed when I turned 9. He also made me spend hours standing in the "spare" coal house wearing y fronts if I had a sub standard school report or I'd misbehaved. My sisters were made to take an ice cold bath overseen by our mum. I often helped out on the farm and was encouraged, especially during harvest, to strip down. Most of the helpers who varied from 16 upwards stripped off too. I do remember one lad in his early 20s, who on his first day helping, kept his vest on stripping off when it was totally soaked in sweat, then the penny dropped as to why 3 of us were already stripped off. Working in the sheds was like being in a blast furnace! The following morning he bared his chest like the rest of us, lesson learned.

Seeing these comments is eye opening since when I was at school (left 5 years ago) we did PE in shorts and a tshirt, and did swimming in trunks/speedos, definitely not nude. As far as I know, most of these would constitute child abuse now, and I’m a bit doubtful that some of these things happened to be honest. Showers after pe weren’t compulsory and no one usually showered after pe since for most it would be the last lesson of the day or near the end, and we would shower at home. This was at an all boys school by the way.

Our school actually had excellent PE and swimming lessons. Usually the class would be divided into three groups from very able to least able, and the teacher would focus on one at a time, with everyone doing the same activity on different levels (e.g. the most able swimmers would swim more laps than the rest). There was a competition at the end of every lesson which we quite enjoyed. And there were a bunch of after school fitness/sport clubs you could go to for free, and a small gym. And this was at a state school so it was pretty good. I became pretty good at swimming by the end and took part in a bunch of galas, competitions during my time there.

Toby, right from my Junior School days, my parents had no issues whatoever with me stripping off topless for PE, or anywhere else provided it was not inappropriate. It was how it was done back in those days, and my memory is that most kids, boys and girls alike, enjoyed the freedom of minimal clothing whenever possible, not just when exercising, a concept in keeping with my parents attitudes.

Mum and Dad never wore vests themselves, so I never suffered the indignity of being made to wear a vest: at bedtime they shared a pair of men's PJs in the traditional manner, so I was introduced to sleeping topless at an early age: and they appreciated the health benefits of exposure to sunshine, so I was encouraged to leave my shirt off at every opportunity when playing out in the garden. When we went for walks in the fields around our village in the summer, we would generally all wear sandals and shorts, Dad, my younger brother and I usually topless, and Mum and my sister in halter tops, and we would often encounter similarly-clad families.

And they were open to new ideas, too. When, as a rising twelve-year-old, I came home from boading school for my first half-term break with three pairs of brand-new, unwrapped and obviously unworn PJs in my case and the coy admission that nobody in my dormitory, me now included, wore anything to bed, they laughingly agreed that while PJs were on the boarders' clothing list, nothing was actually said about wearing them, and promptly announced their intention of following my example.

Autres temps, autres moeurs!

It's a long time ago I now but I don't remember either of my parents commenting adversely the day I came home from school and announced that we would be doing PE topless from now on. Dad's initial reaction that we wouldn't have to buy me any more PE vests, was soon put down by Mum pointing out that I had been wearing my ordinary underwear vests for PE for a number of years. Her greatest concern came a couple of weeks later, when she realised that an unintended consequence of not wearing my underwear vest for PE was that, after the class, I generally "forgot" to put it back on again, and within in another couple of weeks I had stopped wearing a vest altogether.

Both my parents fully approved of me stripping to the waist for PE/Games which was the no from 9 years old through to 18. It's something todays young men would benefit from. Stripping in view of the girls was a good thing, making you work harder

Hi Paul, I know exactly what you mean about being on the skins team at school. I hated it at first and felt really uncomfortable, almost as if I'd been made to strip completely naked. This was when I was 13, in the early 90s. Interested to know if you were a similar age and/or era?

Hello Paul, we would usually practice for 4 hours everyday after school for 4 weeks before the actual performance.

Strangely we were allowed to wear a shirt for the first week. Only on the second week onwards we have to do it shirtless. We were all shocked during the first year when we found out that not only we had to practice shirtless but perform shirtless on the day. Eventually after seeing some of my classmates took their shirts off I had to do it too. Some of the shy kids were taken into a corner to be reprimanded but came back to practice without their clothes.

Every single boy in my school hated being shirtless, obviously the girls enjoyed it, they were visibly excited when we had to our shirts off for the first time.

Hi Shin, that's interesting seeing the pictures you linked to earlier, thanks for sharing. Presumably everyone is shirtless when you practice as well, and not just for the actual performance?
We didn't do calisthenics at my school . I only took my shirt off when I had to be on the skins team. I didn't like that very much, I was uncomfortable being stripped to the waist the first times.

Hi Stuart,
I’ve been to Germany and nude swimming was considered perfectly normal in many places. I have no problem with swimming naked, the Germans and Scandinavians have a healthier attitude towards non sexual nudity than the majority of British people.

I have holidayed a lot throughout my life in france and they have always had this strict proper trunks for swimwear rule and it does make sense both for hygiene reasons as stated and for swimming, you can't swim properly in those ridiculously sized bermuda shorts.
I think it is the same in Italy too.
Guys seem to eb scare dof wearing speedos.
Interestingly enough a couple of years ago was in denmark andn sweeden, ended up swimming from the kalbadhus which is a men and women sepaarte bathing areas in the sea on the end of long piers and usually nudist, and the scandanavian boys had no fear of swimming nude, such a different culture to the british. It wa sseen as normal not scary - the germans are very relaxed too.

Hi John and Alfie A I think all the points you have said about the French insisting on speedos in pools are good reasons. They sound pretty logic and sensible to me. Proper horses for courses I thinks For swimming it makes you streamlined for the activity just the same as above the knee shorts and shirtless for PE and things like that. It makes the activities safer and more hygienic. Being a young lad I don't always like the many petty rules we have in UK because alot are ludicrous like protecting peoples touchy feelings but if ruled are for hygiene and safety I am all for it.The UK is lax with hygiene I think even in restaurants I have seen it myself.

The latest comments on "speedos" having to be worn in France seems to confirm my previous message.

Hi Bailey,
The French consider that board shorts are unhygienic because guys will often have worn them all day, they don’t want germs being transferred to their swimming pools. It’s more hygienic to get guys to change into speedos.

The other reason is that guys who wear board shorts are considered not to be keen swimmers, it’s not really possible to swim well wearing board shorts. The French don’t want guys fooling around in the pool dive bombing and doing belly flops, they feel that guys will swim and obey pool rules whilst wearing speedos.

Hi John That is interesting to know. In UK a lot of boys dare not wear them because people of all ages say things that puts them off and people dare not to stand out.
You mentioning France insisting that they wear speedos is fascinating. It makes me recall an holiday about 8 years in Bournemouth I think it was where they told the males they had to wear small trunks ONLY and not long shorts It just sticks in my mind the reaction of the men, women and kids it was as though they were asking them to be naked!
Can't just remember exactly what happened as I was 8 but I remember my dad me and my brother used the pool so I assume we either had some small trunks or some were bought for it. It stuck in my mind the peoples reaction to this request by the pools bosses. I have never come across this request in this country since that time. most males wear the long shorts in pools.

Hi Bailey,

I just wanted to mention that the French don’t have a problem with males wearing speedos, in fact many swimming pools in France insist on guys wearing speedos or similar trunks and ban guys from wearing board shorts. The French also have a generally healthy and positive attitude towards nudity as well.

Hi Mikeee We are not forced to be bare chested like on the picture back then, but the kit is dark or grey shorts similar length to the shorts on the picture and a dark vest. Nobody bats an eyelid if we do not wear the vest and I would say more than half choose shirtless like me. But then a lot do not of course but the vest is useless only that it covers the tummy and a bit of the chest.
Perhaps if they are fatter it may serve a purpose i do not know.
In sports lessons shoes and black ankle socks are worn but in ordinary PE lessons footwear or bare feet is optional. At times I have been involved in mixed PE lessons but if I had to make a choice of bare chest or bare feet in front of a girl it would be bare chest every time. There is a big deal about boys bare feet for some reason Is that because boys have bigger feet, perhaps but some girls have bigger feet than me to be honest!!!!! another thing is as I have said before on here is a disgust by people of all ages about boys wearing speedos. Other generations said they wore them and my dad wore them and nobody said anything to him when he was young so it is harder for us at times. My dad said they are more prudish now than when he was a lad though I think society thinks they are more outgoing now. I do not know about that but you can only deal with what you come across I guess.