Burnley Grammar School

Hi Andrea, we wore an uncomfortable bright yellow aertex top with black skirt. We were allowed tracksuit bottoms for cross country running during the winter or if we were playing netball on the school yard which had both basketball and netball courts painted on. We played a boys v girls basketball match once a year outside in either spring /summer. Part of the fun was making boys go topless. I did envy the boys going topless for PE, it just looked totally natural for them to be. I didn't begin to show until I was nearly 16 and could have played as a skin though my ponytail may have given me away. I was initially surprised when those with hairy chests were expected to strip and go topless too but it was all just part of being at school.

Helen,
What did you girls wear at secondary school.
For indoor PE we wore gym knickers and polo shirts. It was an all girls school, so no boys around!

John,
What did the girls wear for PE at your primary school?
At mine boys and girls got changed in the same classroom, stripping down to underwear, before putting on T shirts and shorts or PE skirts. We all wore pumps too.
The only exception to the changing arrangements were that in the final year, a few girls who had started to wear bras were allowed to change in the toilets.

George, Although our school stipulated the boys wear vests, the PE teachers didn't hesitate to make them strip and show their upper bodies off. A hairy chest didn't make any difference to the teachers, the boys were expected to strip regardless.
I never objected to seeing boys topless, I think the majority were happy to go topless indoors or outside.

Sorry to respond four years late, but I just recently discovered this Website.

On February 25, 2015, Curious asked why it was so difficult to find newspaper clippings proving that boys at one time
were required to attend swim class nude.

He was referring to British schools, but the same thing was going on at about the same time in the United States, and the same question has been asked in the United States. A standard reply to that question is an article on page 12 of
The Sheboygan (Wisconsin) Press on Thursday, October 31, 1940. The article announced swimming classes which were meeting at a local school.

At 8:30, the girls met wearing swim suits. This was illustrated with a photo of a class of very decently clad young ladies. At 10:30, the boys met "minus everything except their dignity." This was illustrated with a photo of a full-length, rear view of an outstanding member of the class, standing on the diving board. The article identified the boy by name and address.

I wonder what his classmates said when he returned to school on Friday, November 1.

George,
At Primary School until age 11 boys went to school wearing grey shorts as part of the school uniform. We undressed for PE in the classroom and stripped to the waist in the presence of the girls and kept the same shorts on that we’d gone to school in, we took off our outdoor shoes and changed into pumps. Then we walked down the corridors to the school hall which also served as the gym.

Claire, I appreciate your message of June 26.
I have often wondered how women and girls felt about not being allowed to go topless.
I don't know how it is in the UK, but here in the United States, women and girls can wear short shorts just about anywhere and any time.
It is legal for men to wear short shorts, but we would get ridiculed.
Whenever I see a short shorted girl with a long shorted boy, I seethe with indignance at the girl for flaunting her privileged status at her poor oppressed brother.
Whenever I see a short shorted woman with a long shorted man, I seethe with indignance at the woman for flaunting her privileged status at her poor oppressed mate.
I imagine that you felt somewhat the same way when you saw your half-naked male classmates.

Ben, check out the Voy Forums.
That site contains dozens of messages from veterans of nude swimming in the United States, which seems to have happened at about the same time.
There were public schools, private schools, and Red Cross centers where nude boys attended attended swim class along with swim suited girls.
And the swim suited girls weren't always very lady-like.
Nor were the girls always very lady-like when attending nude swim galas--only we don't call them "galas," we call them "meets."

John, when you stripped in front of the girls, did you put on gym shorts?
Or did you go down the hallway wearing only underwear?

Graham - I agree with you completely. Fifty years or so ago when I was at school most boys were very happy to do without shirts whenever they could get away with it both in p.e. and out of school.
I never took part in any physical demonstrations for parents etc dressed like that but we did run cross country all through the year dressed like the boy's in K's photo except that our shorts were white and shorter. We left the school grounds through the rear gate and ran along a residential street to get to the open parkland nearby. Similarly, we ran along another residential street on the way back to get to the front gates - all dressed in just shorts whatever the weather. That was just the way things were - we thought nothing of it and got on with it. I wonder what has made boys so shy of their bodies now - it doesn't seem healthy or natural.

I know a lot of water has flowed under the metaphorical bridge since my schooldays, but I still find the current angst associaed with being topless in a public situation a bit difficult to comprehend. PE classes were topless for sost of my school life, and I don't remember anyone complaining at the idea or feeling embarrassed by not wearing a shirt. It was how it was done back in those days. In fact my memory is that most kids were only too keen to get as many clothes off as was decent when the sun was shining, and not just when taking part in any form of physical activity. Shorts were de rigeur in my home for the summer months, and I needed little parental encouragement to leave my shirt off when out in the sunshine at any time of the year, both when playing out in the garden and when we went for family walks in the fields near where we lived.

Hi Shin,

I am from the U.K but I am currently studying in Japan because my dad got a job there. My school is exactly like yours as we have to perform calisthenics shirtless during the annual sports day.

I am not sure if its a cultural thing but my local Japanese classmates were equally stunned and shocked as I was when we found out we have to do it shirtless. All the boys in my school including me hated being shirtless too, I guess being the only white guy made me stand out more which makes the whole thing worse.

Here is a pic my mom took last year during my sports day I am the only white guy in the pic.

https://ibb.co/2vphxR1

Jack,

It makes no difference if your made to go topless either indoors or out on the school playing field it could be unpleasant especially outside.

I did a TA selection weekend. We were told to bring a vest (absolutely no t-shirt) shorts and trainers for physical exercise.

Unfortunately the weather was cold and very wet all week. It didn't change for the weekend so it was obvious it would be tough.

In the gym we were each given either a red or white numbered armband for identification, mine was white no 17, these also represented our teams once we'd tied these to our arms we were ordered told to run to the front of the gym, drop our vests and run back.

Our selection group had lads aged from 23 to 28 and a good number had some level of chest hair and going topless was a bit of a shock to some, and then the session really started. I remember glancing at the large clock which showed we'd only been going for 15mins and I had started to show sweat due to the intensity of the workout. It's one of the hardest gym sessions I ever had.

The afternoon session was done outside and the white team were told to strip down while the reds kept their vests on which given the conditions they were rather smug about ... until a heavy downpour hit. Although their vests were completely soaked the PTIs ensured those lads kept them on until the end.

We also did football games in vests and skins. At half time teams would swap around so those in vests would strip and vice versa. Basketball matches were done with everyone topless but the armbands made it easy to pick out teammates.

I would be interested to know what age you were when you were tied out in the rain. and what else you were made to do, for example sports
you played. Did your military school allow you to wear a shirt or vest for exercise or were you always bare chested and how did you cope with sweating up all the time. Your upper body must have been well defined when you left?

I note the comment from Maltamon from Allentown in Pennsylvania dated 28 June 2018. I have a keen interest in gender discrimination and how it affected boys in the 1970's.

End dates for nude swimming at some schools can be documented by people who were there. Figuring out when nude swimming began at a school is much more difficult, because the earliest participants would be well over 100 years old by now.

Usually, it was the date the pool was built—which varied from school building to school building within the same district. Such decisions were usually made by the local school board, and applied to all schools in the district that had pools at that particular time. So far, we know the precise beginning and end dates at only nine schools—mostly latecomers built in the 1960s.

Pennsylvania
Allentown
Allentown/William Allen HS 1940 (when pool built) -1970
Butler
Butler Junior High 1962-65
Erie
Cathedral Prep HS mid-1970s
Philadelphia
La Salle College HS 1970s
Pittsburgh
several junior highs 1960s
junior high ended 1981
Peabody HS 1959-74
South Hills HS late-1960s

I wonder if you have anymore information on this Maltamon?

Please Help illustrate Lists - if you know of more school pools in the Allentown area.

Andrew R, you say your lesson were hard because you do not know pe lessons in military school. First rule: gym kit was shorts and plimsolls, so that when we changed, we went outside restroom shirtless, no chance of having shirt on. Second rule: if you didn’t reach particular goals in tests inside the gym, you could try again, but outside, regardless weather (Remember you were shirtless). Third rule: if you didn’t reach goals outside, you received a warning. Fourth rule: after three warning, it was better to pray, because you had to be punished. Punishment wasn’t always the same. It changed according to teacher’s thought. I was punished several time at the beginning and it was very painful. The worst time, I remember, it was raining and temperature was around 38/40 F. In the ground, there were like rings used to open manholes. I was obliged to lie to the ground on my back, then my wrists were tied with a rope to that rings. Just imagine the scene, I was lying on the ground with my bare chest on the open air, with rain which hit me. It lasted 20 minutes. During these minutes I couldn’t move due to the rope. At the end I was untied and I could go inside. I think it was the worst punishment I have ever received.

Jo, I found your post interesting. My PE/Games lessons were hard and as William said there was no place to hide. Laps of the field awaited anyone lacking effort and you'd be run into the ground at the end to teach you a lesson. I had the same PE teacher throughout school and he knew everyone's strengths and weaknesses.

Outdoors I and a couple of others were picked to strip off every time while for others it wasn't as frequent. I wish I knew why as our indoor kit was barechested for all.

Andrew and Willy, Nude swimming at boys' schools has surfaced before in this discussion: try February, March and December last year for starters.

It is curious the idea of nude swimming but its so hard to know the details about it because I think the participants are of a generation that aren't often net users, no longer with us or just don't think its odd enough to them to warrant any mention. I didnt give my (limited) PE kit that much thought until hearing what is worn today and others sharing their stories.
Swimsuits for males are a more recent invention than for females so its stands to reason men/boys didnt wear them and that was the norm until some point presumably as mixed swimming in public became common.

Several posters have mentioned that they had nude swimming classes for boys at school.
How common was this practice and when did it cease, if it ceased at all?
We didn't have the luxury of a swimming school at the schools I went to, or knew other schools that had.

Some have even mentioned that they had swimming galas also in the nude in front of family members as spectators, including girls like sisters. Was this also common?
Also was there an age limit when the boys had to swim nude, since some mention that this was only for juniors up to 13 or so, after which they wore swimsuits.

It seems that the only thing that kids practice today is sitting at the computer playing video games and looking at their mobiles and tablets.
We didn't have such gadgets when we were kids and so spent most of our time outside school or holidays playing outside.
We even organized athletic races between us or played football. Unlike today's kids it was a constant physical activity when outside of school or after school.
Girls would be jumping ropes in the street and other such activities.
Yes, fat or overweight kids were very rare.

I know "things were different in my day" circa mid 60's, but I think the problem with P.E. nowadays like all subjects it is results and target driven. For P.E. my teenage son P.E. just seems to be football, cricket dodge ball or some other organised games. Any gymnastics is for the "top set" only who actually are going for a GCSE grade in the subject. This means other pupils miss out on the actual exercise that we all had to do.
Furthermore until we left school at 16 we always had to go swimming at the local swimming pool each week. Summer & winter. We did wear trunks of the briefs style(that really was all that was available and what all males wore. So P.E. sports & swimming was minimal clothing and that was that.
How times have changed. When I go to the swimming pool at my gym, I see that teen lads are not only wearing longish swimming shorts, it is apparent from waistbands that are showing, that they also wear their boxer shorts under their swim shorts!! Why? It cannot be for support because most swim shorts have a netting inside as a support.

The "softly softly" approach is already causing problems with obesity on the increase among children

The present "softly softly" approach to school PE/Games activities is creating big health problems for the future.

If we can't get the present generation "match fit" while they're young, there won't be a second chance later on, and they will go into adulthood without ever having broken sweat. It will be an obesity nightmare, if it isn't already.

I hated my PE/Games lessons because of the bullying style of teaching with plenty of corporal punishment on offer. But, even I have to admit that getting fit at that age, stood me in good stead later on.

Hi William and John,interesting comments.
I think my 2 would benefit from that kind of teaching, especially being outside topless. It's crazy to realise the eldest hasn't been made to sweat at all during his PE/Games lessons. There needs to be some common sense applied. I went to a mixed schools and was so natural to see boys of all ages topless on any day, indoors and outside. For them it was all part of being toughened up.

Jo, Yes,we were put through our paces. We could not get away with being slack or lazy. But the school recognised that some boys were better than others. There were things I could hardly do in gym, but what mattered was making the effort.

Every gym lesson started with 20 star jumps. We ran about a lot and did the usual exercises. We certainly got warm and minimal clothing was ideal. No-one flouted the "no pants" rule. We were never checked but you can see from the photo that on the ropes or beam it would have been obvious if a boy had been wearing anything under his shorts.

I've heard that some schools today don't push their pupils hard physically because failure might undermine confidence and even cause mental health problems. We just did not think like that. If you were bad at gym you would be good at something else in the school. Swings and roundabouts - just like real life.

Jo,
I think that your concerns highlight the positive benefits of single sex Senior Schools. Boys need to be able to grow and develop their own identity and this can be accomplished more effectively without having to pander to the needs of girls.

Some of my PE teachers were ex Army and certainly knew how to put lads through their paces and make us sweat. We were worked hard and made fit and healthy and soon got used to doing gym and cross country shirtless and came to prefer not being made to wear a shirt or vest.

Andy, William. I couldnt agree more. As ive said before here my school had PE and games every week, all boys plus nude swimming indoors up to year 8 as it is called now. We played rugby, had Pe in shorts and white t shirt, often had skins v shirts games, were slippered if you were naughty, compulsory naked showers but looking back never felt it was abuse at all, we were fit, no kids were fat, we exercised a lot and there was no issues about being naked in front of other boys, it was normal.
It amazes me today kids dont wash after exercise and that just seems so unhealthy, whilst the levels of obesity seem to be growing as we have generations who don't do any exercise and eat crap food. Im only in my early 50s but do despair at what I see.
The implications for society and our health service are immense.
I think a good grounding in healthy exercise sets up a person for life, and so many now dont do any exercise at all.
I cant imagine how hard it must be for PE teachers today to get some kids motivated for games especially in secondary schools

Hi William, Your school was more practical than todays are. You mentioned you went topless for athletics and cross country too along with gym which seems a sensible approach. Were you pushed by your teachers to sweat when you were being put through your paces either indoors or outside or am I expecting too much from my 2?

Jo, I was at a boys' grammar school in the 1960s. Gym kit was minimal: white shorts, vest and plimsolls. We hardly ever wore the vest so that didn't wear out, and it was the practice to keep the shorts for as long as possible, turning over the waist to keep them up when the elastic got slack. We wore the same kit for athletics and cross-country. I never saw a tracksuit or jockstrap. For rugby and hockey we had dark shorts and two shirts of different colours. My shirts were second hand. It made sense for shirts which had become too small to be sold to younger boys.

Gym was never a comfort zone for me. I quickly got used to no pants under shorts, no top and the communal showers, but I was never very keen on gym, except for playing "pirates" at the end of term, which was great fun. I was no good at vaults, handstands (another boy held our legs) or somersaults, but I had to do my best because discipline was strict and protest was out of the question.

I think the regime did toughen us. Child protection hadn't been thought of so we never felt vulnerable (we were certainly not abused) and because we didn't think we had any rights we never worried about them being infringed. It was rigorous but we were happy. If children aren't pushed out of their comfort zones how do they learn what they are capable of?

Hi guys, when I read these messages I remembered what happened to us. We usually do or with a shirt on outside and shirtless inside. Teacher said that it was the general rule. But if something went wrong, then there was punishment. Regardless other post, our punishment was quite simple, you have to go outside as you were, with nothing on your chest. It doesn’t seem a punishment, unless we weren’t in a very cold region of Scotland, where in winter it always rained, and it often turned to sleet or hail. Our teacher said, you must stay outside and “survive” so that you weren’t obligated to run, but obviously it was recommended if you didn’t want to feel cold. I was punished sometimes and I remember when I had to stay outside for 45 minutes with snow, I was shirtless and the only thing I could do was to run. I still remember sweat on my chest that made me feel warm. That was a strange feeling, half of my chest was covered in snow, the other half by sweat.