Burnley Grammar School

TomS I completely agree with your comments. Though our PE/Games lessons were always done in "skins vs vests" for everything regardless of the weather or time of year.

Along with a couple of other boys we were picked by the teachers to strip off for nearly all the lessons, no idea why but I wasn't fazed by exercising topless but would like to have known why I was always bare chested. Did anyone find that some lads were picked to strip off more than others?

One thing is for certain the earlier boys start stripping to the waist the better. I was first made to strip to the waist when I started at middle school as a 9yr old and continued throughout the high school until leaving at 18.

I too remember my TA selection weekend. I'd received a letter about what to bring for PT. There was to be no t-shirts just vests.

Half the group breathed an inaudible sigh of relief at not having to go topless outside on a cold, wet and miserable day. Our group were given the honour of stripping off for a grueling PT session. Being topless outside in such weather proved too much for some who later quit. We did a second session in the gym with both groups stripped to the waist.. sweatfest.

We did the same football tournament match with skins beating vests 4-3

Our regiment preferred we exercise as skins. When they first came into the regiment they were asked if they objected to males going topless.. Oddly enough they didn't mind and it was never a problem. Only when there were 10 females on the books were we told to wear vests or t-shirt.

My feelings are that anything that maybe classed as "masculine" is frowned at in the UK.

There really is nothing wrong with boys being stripped to the waist to workout and be pushed to have sweat showing on your upper body.

It may take you somewhat out of your comfort zone but it brings positive results and greatly reduces the risk of "image" problems.

When will people come to their senses and allow boys to become young men again. Doing PE as skins should be a a right of passage.

I believe that stripping boys to the waist at school would also instil a dose of discipline and some respect for each other.

I'd like to hear others views, especially from the female posters as to how they view boys/men stripping off to the waist.

Philip re your comments on forced showers. I left school like you over 30 years ago but i honestly cant see why expecting people to shower after playing sport is a bad thing. We used to play rugby and football and often were filthy afterwards, how can it be sensible, hygienic etc not to wash before getting dressed. At my gym where we have open showers guys of all ages from boys to old men shower after doing sport. I think it is a good to insist on cleanliness.

John - it was my third year at secondary school when our PE teacher gathered us together before the forst PE session of the new term to break the news that, henceforth, PE was going to be topless. His argument was that it was widely agreed to be healthier and more comfortable to wear as little as possible when exercising vigourously, and that loosly-fitting PE tops had been known to get caught on apparatus and cause accidents. For these reasons, therefore, tops of any kind would no longer be worn for indoors PE, but would be optional for outdoors activities.

This news was greeted with pleasant anticipation (by most of us), with apprehension (by the remaining few) and with annoyance by those parents who had splashed out on new PE tops over the summer holiday, only to find them immediately redundant. I think we were all a bit wary of the unfamiliar freedom of toplessness for the first few classes, despite us all wearing noticeably more than we wuld have worn at the beach or the swimming pool, but within a couple of weeks, comfort and practicality prevailed, and toplessness in the gym rapidly became taken for granted.

Up until then, our PE kit had been pretty conventional, black shorts and white t-shirt style top, although in practice any top sufficed, as long as it was white. Since kids gnerally wore underwear vests year-round in those days, most of us just took off our school ties, shirts and trousers, put on our shorts, and there we were, all kitted out. An unintended, but inevitable, consequence of the new regime was that instead of me and my mates going to school wearing vests under our shirts, taking them off for PE and putting them back on afterwards, it soon became fashionable to leave our vests off when getting dressed after the class. From here, it was just a short step to not bother to wear a vest on on PE days, and a further, shorter, step to giving up vests altogether.

I can´t believe that 30 years since I left school there are still institutions that force boys to shower but no such mandate exists for girls. If there is to be real equality we must ban the dreaded school shower for all genders! Here is one shameful example.

calthorpepark.hants

P.E. Kit

All items of kit should be clearly named using permanent marker, iron-on or sew-in name tapes. Biro is not suitable as a marker.

BOYS
Maroon logoed polo shirt
Maroon logoed Rugby shirt
Black logoed shorts
Maroon and white football Socks
White ankle socks
Shin pads
Trainers any colour; Non-Marking Soles ONLY and NO High-Top or canvas pumps
Football boots; any make, NO metal studs
Towel for showering
A strong kit bag - this should be a separate bag to the one used for school books and equipment
Gum shield (for rugby and hockey)

GIRLS
Maroon logoed polo shirt
Maroon logoed fleece
Black logoed shorts or skort
Maroon and white football socks
White ankle socks
Shin pads
Astro trainers or football boots; any make. Astro trainers can be worn on the playground and the outdoor pitches
Plain, black sports leggings; available online from SWI or a sports shop. NO fashion leggings
Gum shield (for rugby and hockey)

Chris G,
When barechested PE for lads was introduced at your school did your Headteacher or PE teacher give you an explanation for the change?.
I’m surprised that there weren’t complaints from some lads, I felt quite self conscious initially as did some of my pals but soon got to prefer exercising shirtless and wouldn’t have liked it if there had been a return to being made to wear a shirt for PE.

Rob, like you, I had no issues with being bare-chested when topless PE was introduced at my school, and I don't remember anyone else being bothered with the change. On the contrary, we all welcomed the freedom of a few hours minus the vests that boys generally wore back in those days, and within a couple of weeks I, and most of my mates, had stopped wearing vests altogether.

Paul, as I said, when we arrived for our first PE lesson (aged 11) we were all told to take everything off and wear just gym shorts and plimsolls and nothing else. I didn't have a problem with this because it was normal for boys to be shirtless in their leisure time. We continued to be shirtless in PE all the time, even in the 6th form, and you are right in thinking that it would have been much better if you had all had to have been as well.

Chris G, my wife makes comments about my shorts. I think the truth is that they envy us men being able to wear just shorts and wish they could enjoy the sunshine more like us. Don't be put off! Enjoy the fine weather.

Rob, like you, I've spent the last couple of days gardening in just shorts, indecently short according to my wife, and appropriate shoes. I guess about 50% of my male neighbours have been similarly attired whilst gardening.

Wow - this brings back memories! And, judging from the number of comments, it’s struck a chord with many. For the record, yes - I went to a secondary school in the Midlands during the mid-1980s where shirts/skins was the norm for team games. For other activities such as gymnastics, cross-country or athletics, we always wore a vest - I can’t recall ever having my top off for these activities. But, football, basketball, hockey and even rugby at times, we’d regularly divide into either “shirts” or “skins” both indoors and outdoors, and come rain or shine.

Looking back, I regarded it at the time as a rite-of-passage that all teenage boys went through. In my case, it was certainly painful at first - at 11 years old, I was very shy and self-conscious about taking my shirt off in public. But, you soon grew out of it and, from the age of 13 onwards, was actually disappointed not to be on the “skins” team. Going through university in the 1990s, I would regularly play some recreational basketball and football where we’d divide into shirts/skins. And later on still, I joined the Territorial Army where my regiment had no qualms about dividing its squaddies into shirts/skins. (This was just before they allowed women to join front-line regiments).

What fascinates me though is the psychology behind being shirtless. On the one hand, it’s a very primeval and powerful instinct to be barechested - it shows strength and potential, yet vulnerability. And in a team situation, it can be very potent. I have a vivid memory of my selection weekend to join the TA, where all the recruits took part in a full-on, 11–a-side football tournament (full rules, properly refereed matches) that took place over an afternoon on muddy pitches in late-March. I was on one of the “skins” teams and, although by the end of the tournament, we were plastered in mud and narrowly lost the tournament, there was a terrific sense of shared endeavour and achievement.

Nowadays, my sense is that rightly or wrongly child safeguarding measures are in place that forbid “old-skool” shirts/skins. In many ways, that’s a pity. Provided it takes place in a safe nurturing environment, I found that being a “skin” (and so being pushed to the limits of your comfort-zone, at least initially), together with that sense of shared endeavour and comradeship, made for great character-building and self-confidence. It helped me develop as an individual.

John, I still enjoy enjoy wearing shorts in the summertime whenever I can and when it is warm and sunny, like today, I have been stripped to the waist working in the garden.

Altho like I said I didn’t enjoy at the time being made to strip off to be on the skins team, i do actually think it would have been much better if we’d all had to be shirtless in PE all the time, and if we’d had to do it from age 11. One thing I always hated as a skin was having to line up facing the shirts team at the start, especially if most of my friends had ended up keeping their tops on while mine had come off. Of course i doubt anyone noticed or cared that I was barechested. But at 13 I was pretty body conscious and didnt like the feeling of nothing on my top half. I did get more used to it when I was older (we did PE even in 6th form) but still only went shirtless when I was made to.

Rob,
I can relate with everything that you’ve said. I also feel lucky to have been able to enjoy doing PE barechested free from the restrictions of a hot and sweaty shirt and also got to like being able to have a proper shower afterwards. It made lads confident about their bodies and was a healthy and normal way for lads to grow into adults.

Some interesting comments from schooldays experiences during the during the second half of the 20th century and more recent times. I can relate to Graham's idyllic youth when I was also encouraged to be outside in the garden in the sunshine without a shirt and also walking in the countryside when it was normal for men and boys to wear just shorts and sandals. When I started at a boys grammar school it was no surprise at the start of our first PE lesson to be all told to strip off and wear just gym shorts and plimsolls and nothing else. I had no problem with this and enjoyed every lesson, feeling free both in the gym and when we were sent out on a cross country run.
I feel sorry for those guys in recent times who never experienced the pleasure of going shirtless in their primary school days and felt naked when they had to be stripped to the waist and in just shorts. I was apprehensive at the end of my first PE lesson when we all had to go back to the changing room and I had to take my shorts off and put them on the bench with my clothes and go into the open communal showers. I realised that I was actually naked and the others could see me. But then so were they and after the next lesson I had no problem and soon looked forward to showers especially when we were worked hard and made to sweat. It was all part of the pleasure of being a boy and growing into a young man.

Thanks for your reply Paul. Sounds uncannily like my school, which was also all boys! We also wore white shorts in PE...
I was quite tall and a bit gangly, so I felt I stood out more when I was on the skins team. Inevitably some boys were more at ease than others and I was certainly in the latter camp. It took me quite a while to get used to running around bare-chested.

Absolutely John. Presumably you're also a sensible guy.Nothing wrong with sleeping naked!!!!

Stuart - what was your PE kit when you were at Caterham, vest or topless?

Rob,
I take it that you’re a sensible guy who prefers to sleep naked.

I can't remember when I last owned a pair of pyjamas and my wife gets concerned that I am not feeling well if I wear my boxers in bed.

CJ,
Pyjamas are restrictive, bunch up and make you too hot in bed. I don’t know any guy who doesn’t sleep shirtless, my mates either sleep naked or wear boxers to bed. Most people have centrally heated homes, pyjamas are from an era when people’s homes were cold.

Fiona
Nothing wrong with PJs !!!!

Hi guys, when i went to school, we had a strange policy on being shirtless. Our pe teacher let us run and took the time. We were with shirt on. After a week, we run another time on the same track, and if our time wasn’t faster than the time before, we had a warning. After two warning (which means after two times we weren’t able to improve our time, we had to do lesson without a shirt, which means we gave our shirt to the teacher and each time we had pe we took off our shirt (which we wore in class) and cannot wear anything. We would have received our shirt only if we were able to improve time for 5 time in a row, which was very difficult because winter is cold and we have to run under rain, wind, hail, snow without anything on our top. I remember when there were 20 F and I had to run under a hailstorm with nothing on my chest... but that was the rule

Stuart, either a very clear reference to sleeping without nightwear, as you say, or an acceptance that pupils of senior school age might have given up conventional nightwear in favour of underwear. I favour your interpretation, and it's the first indication that I have seen of a boarding school acknowledging that, in the 21st century, not everyone wears PJS!

hi Kenton,
yes it was early 90’s, an allboys school. I would have been 13 when we had to divide into skins and shirts for the first time. I remember being very shy and self conscious about taking my shirt off in the gym and standing there topless, the lesson felt endless. It probably didn’t help that I wasnt very good at team games so tended to be more aware of my bare chest, as I never really got into the game. I definitely felt naked - once my T shirt came off and got put on the bench, all i was left wearing was a tiny pair of white shorts!

Hi Fiona thanks for the research. I'm not sure when the nude swimming was ended probably in the late 1970s and well before the school went mixed in 1995. Times have indeed changed. I wasnt a boarder so have no knowledge of sleepwear back then but as you say a very clear reference there now to sleeping without it.

Stuart, your comments re nude swimming at Caterham Prep School in the 1970s prompted me to look at the current Caterham School uniform requirementsfor two reasons.

Firstly, contrary to your experience nearly half a century ago, swimwear is now definitely specified for boys and girls of all ages.

Secondly, the uniform list for boarders contains the following line item:

Nightwear- (if used) at least 2 sets. One dressing gown/towelling robe

Does this mean that use of nightwear by boarders is not obligatory? I'm a bit surprised to see it spelled out so explicitly, although given contemporary attitides and habits, it's probably better than requiring parents to provide nightwear that their offspring have no intention or inclination to wear.

Pete, reference your comment re nude swimming. I understand that nowadays it may seem far fetched but it definitely happened both here in the UK and in America where there is a wealth of evidence online especially relating to the YMCAs.
I can honestly say that between 1971 and 1975 my older brother and I swam naked at Caterham Prep School in Surrey aged 9 - 13 and I know it continued there for at least another couple of years after then.
Showers after games were compulsory both there and at my senior school Portsmouth GS up until what is now year 11.
It was normal and most of us were just used to it and it didnt seem odd, you got filthy playing rugby so you showered afterwards.

I thought it was barking mad that boys' Mum's would insist on the wearing of vests under a shirt, Pullover, Blazer and or Coat. Then on the same cold winter mornings, when we had cross country, vests were banned and bare chests were compulsory!

Toby P,
I wish that my dad had made me sleep shirtless at 9 years old like you, I had the embarrassment of being made to take pyjamas to school camp aged 12 and finding that most of the lads slept shirtless. I don’t approve of your dad making you stand in the coal shed though, apart from that he sounds a great dad.

Hi Graham, my dad never approved of vests. He stopped me wearing a t shirt for bed when I turned 9. He also made me spend hours standing in the "spare" coal house wearing y fronts if I had a sub standard school report or I'd misbehaved. My sisters were made to take an ice cold bath overseen by our mum. I often helped out on the farm and was encouraged, especially during harvest, to strip down. Most of the helpers who varied from 16 upwards stripped off too. I do remember one lad in his early 20s, who on his first day helping, kept his vest on stripping off when it was totally soaked in sweat, then the penny dropped as to why 3 of us were already stripped off. Working in the sheds was like being in a blast furnace! The following morning he bared his chest like the rest of us, lesson learned.

Seeing these comments is eye opening since when I was at school (left 5 years ago) we did PE in shorts and a tshirt, and did swimming in trunks/speedos, definitely not nude. As far as I know, most of these would constitute child abuse now, and I’m a bit doubtful that some of these things happened to be honest. Showers after pe weren’t compulsory and no one usually showered after pe since for most it would be the last lesson of the day or near the end, and we would shower at home. This was at an all boys school by the way.

Our school actually had excellent PE and swimming lessons. Usually the class would be divided into three groups from very able to least able, and the teacher would focus on one at a time, with everyone doing the same activity on different levels (e.g. the most able swimmers would swim more laps than the rest). There was a competition at the end of every lesson which we quite enjoyed. And there were a bunch of after school fitness/sport clubs you could go to for free, and a small gym. And this was at a state school so it was pretty good. I became pretty good at swimming by the end and took part in a bunch of galas, competitions during my time there.