Burnley Grammar School

Fiona, the arrangements at your primary school sound similar to those when my son was at primary. The boys and girls started to change separately from the age of about 8 or 9. However as there were very few male teachers at the school, the boys changing area was often supervised by a female member of staff.

Of course it was different once they got to secondary school, where there were male and female PE teachers and separate changing rooms. Showers were available but rarely used, so I made sure he always had a can of deodorant in his kit bag!

Andrea - Yes Mum and I had, and still have, a very good relationship, and from my teen days onwards have been more like sisters than Mum and daughter!

At primary school we had PE two or three times a week, usually in the hall, but out on the field when weather permitted. Girls and boys were together, although we changed separately, us in our classroom and the boys in the cloakroom. At secondary school the gym had separate changing rooms with showers for boys and girls, we did PE at separate times and the only thing we actually did together was tennis in the summer term.

To answer your second question, I should have mentioned that I lost no time in taking up Mum's suggestion. By the time the new school term started, my bed-time routine had become shower, milk and biscuits downstairs with Mum in my dressing gown, and then straight into bed, au naturelle. All that changed when Dad came home was that there were now three of us to share the biscuits, and three of us sleeping the "grown-up" way.

Ross. Yes were made to go barefoot outside if we changed at the last minute from gym to games outside. Gym was always barefoot.
I had forgotten about always having to bring trainers when we did PE. Boys who did not bring them went barefoot outside.

Fiona, you seem to have had a good relationship with your mum, which helped you deal with both the physical and emotional aspects of puberty.

It took a while to accept that my days as a flat-chested tomboy were over, so my birthday bras lay unworn in my drawer for a few months. Although mum and I weren't as good as you at talking about such things, at least she gave me that breathing space to come to terms with the idea.

When it came time for a 'back to school' shopping trip, she said she didn't really want to buy any new vests and by then I had to admit that wearing a bra for PE would be be more comfortable.

Just a couple more questions. Did boys and girls change separately for PE at your primary school and if not were special arrangements made for those of you wearing bras?
In my primary they were allowed to change in the toilets.

Did you have to revert to wearing nightwear when your dad was home? We didn't have central heating, so sleeping naked wasn't really an option.
On the subject of dads, although he never said anything, I do remember feeling embarrassed the first time one of my bras was on the washing line when he was at home!

Charles. Seems like we went to similar schools. Were you ever compelled to go outside barefoot? I was quite frequently as I was never too happy about carrying around with me a pair of trainers plus alll my school books. Did you ever have a trainer check? We did. We all had to report inside the gym once changed and our teacher checked our trainers and if deemed unsuitable we had to take them off and go barefoot.

Andrea - looking back on it, I think I felt very "grown up" because I was about to go to secondary school and, for the last few weeks of my final primary school term, I was proud to be one of a select group of bra-wearers in a class where some girls were still wearing vests. With Dad away working, often for months at a time, Mum and I were very close and our "birds and bees" discussion had taken place over two or three relaxed years rather than an embarrassed Sunday afternon, so I was very well prepared.

Over the half-term holiday, Mum and I had a celebratory girl's day out, stocking up on cosmetics and "other" supplies, shopping for bras, indulging in a posh lunch followed by an afternoon at the cinema. Back home, as I was modelling my new purchases in front of the mirror, Mum started rummaging in my wardrobe, emerging with an armful of clothes and the observation that, as a grown-up young lady, there were things I didn't need any more. These turned out to be some vests, unloved, unworn but outgrown, whose existence I had forgotten about and whose fate was unquestioned, a nylon nightie of uncertain vintage that had been on my hit-list for a while, and my entire wardrobe of PJs, mostly serviceable although some had seen better days through regular usage.

On questioning the PJs, Mum said that, with duvets and central heated bedrooms, all a fashionable late 20th century young lady needed in bed were her birthday suit and a dab of perfume. During recent hot weather Mum hadn't commented when she found me experimenting with sleeping in just my knickers, but the suggestion that I should wear absolutely nothing at all to bed, presumably for keeps, made me feel VERY "grown up".

Ross. It was same for us. We always had to bring our trainers to every PE lesson in case we switched from inside to outside. Those who did not have trainers for outside did it in bare feet. This was the rule as some tried to get out of PE by deliberately forgetting their trainers for outside PE.
A few times we switched at the last minute from inside to outside as we lined up for gym. So we all did it outdoors in just our shorts.

Fiona,
How did you feel when your mum took you to get fitted for your first bra? Rather than take me for a fitting, my mum just went ahead and bought me a couple of bras as an unexpected birthday present. This was in May of my first year at secondary school. I was rather taken aback as neither of us had brought up the subject beforehand. Also, I was a bit of a tomboy, so it took me a while before I came to terms with the fact that I needed to wear one, so it wasn't until I went back to school at the start of the second year that I started to do so regularly.

I was by no means the first in my class to wear a bra (a few did so before we left Primary school and more started during the first year at Secondary) but I still felt a little apprehensive the first time I went into the PE changing room one. As it happened, several other girls had also got them over the summer and our PE teacher obviously thought a few others should have as she told them to ask their mothers for one.
Talking of quaint terms, our teacher referred to them as 'brassieres' rather than bras.

Andrea - Looking back to my school PE days, I realise my Mum was quite perceptive towards the needs of developing girls, or "young ladies", as she so quaintly put it. So, when I started developing "up top", she lost no time in getting me properly fitted for my first bra, so although I wasn't the first in my class to get one, I was probably the first to get one at the right time! I was also one of the first to go without a vest all the year round but as we had a "proper" PE kit, and proper changing facilities, the only issue there was a certain amount of jealousy from the kids with more conventional mothers.

James & James B,
Yes, I guess talking to parents about supportive underwear was embarrassing at the time. I think my Ex would have preferred the option of buying a supporter at school, rather than going to the local sports shop with his dad.

The timing of us girls getting our first bras varied back then. Some girls seemed to get one almost before they needed one, whereas others needed a prompt from our PE teacher to ask their mums for one.

To answer Andrea and Gavin (although I did mention the same thing quite a long time ago, the PE department at our school sold some items of kit, including jockstraps. My father wasn't the slightest bit sporty and, for some reason I just couldn't see how to bring up the subject of underwear with either of my parents, so I just bought one at school.
As far as washing was concerned, we had a swimming pool at school and many of us would just go through the showers after games lessons with shorts and jocks on and then go into the pool after school. The white nylon shorts did become transparent though)! We had our own lockers so I just left the wet things hanging in my locker to dry off.

Andrea,

Yes, it was exactly the same as your Ex had explained. At the first PE lesson after the summer break we were in the gym and the PE teacher raised the matter. He explained that now that we were older we should consider using a supporter and that these were available from the PE Dept office. There was no mention of this in the School Prospectus. As I say, most boys bought one over the next few weeks.

I agree with your Ex, some boys should have been given the opportunity to buy one much earlier and some boys didn't really need to bother - well, not at that time anyway.

I suppose the same could be said for girls in your PE class. I recall you indicated earlier that the PE teacher needed to speak with girls who should have been in a bra earlier!

James

Hi guys, I was reading these posts and I noticed that I was not the only one who was “tortured” for punishment. Like Jason said, in page 2 of this forum, also in my school there was a sort of pole where we were tied if we did something wrong. It happened to me and it was not a nice experience because my school mate made fun of me. They punched me kicked me and also put on my chest water taken from sewage. Obviously I was bare chested too. I think it is unfair but it is an equal punishment because obviously if you “torture” one of you’re school mate then he can “torture” you so you cannot exaggerate. Have you ever tried an experience like this?

Ross, no doubt you got used to your uncertain routine. We had two PE lessons per week in the gym, which might include a surprise cross country run through local woodland and countryside, but still wearing just our black shorts and plimsolls.In the summer we went outside for athletics or cross country. Plus, we had a double lesson, referred to as Games,for soccer in the winter, when we wore full soccer kit, or cricket in the summer. After all the above activities, apart from cricket, we always had to get our kit off and go in the open communal showers.Times have changed since then and it seems that generally this practice has been discontinued in schools.

James B,
Did the PE uniform list that went to your parents say that supporters were allowed from the 3rd year, or were you told this by your PE teacher (which is what happened with my Ex)?

He said that some boys could have done with one earlier, whereas others didn't really need one at the start of their 3rd year!

Yes John the nylon white shorts did become transparent when playing when pe was outside(football or cross country) At least it was an all boys school and no one seemed bothered, and the playing fields were secluded.

Rob, we were allowed to wear trainers outside. Our PE lessons were 3 times a week and we’d generally do the same activity for a week but week to week we didn’t know what we were doing. One week could have been gymnastics and the next rugby or we could be doing a week of gymnastics and have a surprise cross country. So yeah we had to bring our trainers to every lesson and those that didn’t had to go outside and take part barefoot.

@ James B, my experience exactly!

I attended a grammar school from the mid 60''s and our kit was as shown in the picture. The 'no underpants' rule applied and was monitored. From year 3 we were allowed a Litesome supporter which could be bought from PE Dept. Most boys bought one.

Ross, so did wear plimsolls or trainers outside and did you know when you were going to need them or did you always have to bring them in case?

Rob, our PE kit was white shorts and pumps and nothing allowed underneath the shorts. Black shorts would have been more sensible as the white nylon shorts of the 1970s could become transparent.

Hi Rob, my uniform list actually required a change of underwear not that anyone checked or probably even dared to have checked. We weren’t however allowed plimsolls or trainers for indoor activities inside the gymnasium, it was strictly bare feet.

Ross, It looks very much like the gymnasium at my school at that time.Our kit was just black shorts and plimsolls. We weren't allowed anything under our shorts, which was normal at the time, probably including the lads in the photo.

Looking at the gymnasium it doesn’t look too dissimilar from the one I used in high school and I went in the early 2000s !!! This is from 1959.

The kits were different though as we wore a white polo shirt, navy shorts and bare feet.

I agree with Chris G about wearing them under shorts, and even trousers, in the summer. They are a lot cooler to wear than briefs. I still go to a gym a couple of times a week even though I gave up playing actual sports long ago, and I still wear a jockstrap under my shorts there. I am possibly the only one who does - but who cares? I also agree with Chris that it is sad that shops such as Debenhams and sports shops no longer seem to stock them. I bought a couple recently via the internet. There are a few UK suppliers to buy them from without having to import them from the USA - even Amazon seems to have them.

Philip - For everyday underwear, Dad was very much a vest and briefs man, as were many men half a century ago, but with Singapore having a hot, humid climate, and taking the advice of both Mum and colleagues who had been there before him, he decided that he wouldn't need to take any vests but that he would need something less enveloping than his briefs but sufficiently supportive of his lower anatomy. Once back in the UK climate, he instinctively reverted to vast and briefs, leaving half a dozen nearly-new Litesome jockstraps up for grabs. Mum was all for throwing them away (there weren't any clothing/textile recycling oppportunities back then) but my brother and I had other ideas, and rapidly added them to our respective wardrobes. Alhtough we occasionally wore them in more formal situations, we generally wore them under shorts, both for sports and for general use in the summer, until they died of failed elatic, as most jockstraps do in the end. Even now, I prefer a jock to briefs in hot weather, although they are increasingly hard to find in the high-street shops. Until about five years ago, Debenham's had them in their Active Sport underwear range but, sadly, not any more.

Arby and Chris G

Yes unfortunately the lifespan of a Litesome Jockstrap was rather short lived due to wear and tear, often found lying around damp on changing room floors etc. We could have of course just go down to the school outfitters and purchase a new one, but often, being boys, we couldn't be fagged. So often knots were tied in the straps to keep some kind of tension when the elastic went. Wasn't ideal but it worked to some extent. Yes, like you I have never stopped wearing a jock for sport. Like you l wear narrow bands. Youngsters are so spoilt for choice these days.

To ChrisG.
Why did your dad just want jock straps to wear in Singapore and didn't want them any more when he returned?

As with Chris G I too used to wear mine often. I found them to be comfortable. I still wear one under shorts in the summer. Very cool to wear. Although a bit difficult to buy in shops now they are not difficult to find on the internet. As you say Chris, the narrower waist bands are preferable.

Gavin, James - just the question I was going to ask. I think that I wore mine (and Dad's) for most of the first summer that I had them, and fairly regularly from then, until they wore out, which was generally when the leg elastic perished from too much washing. I still wear jocks in the summer when I can get them, although I prefer a narrow waist-band now.