Burnley Grammar School

Craig - I remember cross country in a variety of conditions as you decribe - always wearing nothing but a pair of shorts. We could get cold sometimes, especially our feet if there was snow on the ground but I thought it was a very welcome break from being couped up in a stifling classroom.

I was often sent out on cross-country runs in poor weather.

If it was raining or snowing the PE teacher simply remarked that we were a bunch of softies who needed toughening up.

Maybe he was right - most of us were of an academic rather than a sporting inclination - it was a grammar school, after all.

He sometimes even drove out in his Ford Zodiac to the turning point of the run, and sat there with the engine running and heater on. Drinking from a hot flask of coffee, he ticked off our names as he watched us running past.

As we never knew on what occasions he might be there, we had to do the full run every time - no short cuts.

The girls didn't seem to feel sorry for us. Instead, I'm sure they were relieved that they weren't treated like we boys were.

We did plenty of xcountry runs at school in the pouring rain, snow, general cold stripped to the waist. I also had my fair share of remedial PE sessions, also stripped down with the rain stotting off the yard and laps around the field also barechested.

It would be interesting to hear from females who attended co-ed primary and secondary schools in the 1970s/1980s to find out what their views are regarding boys being made to do PE stripped to the waist.

Did they ever have joint PE lessons with the boys or were they always separate?

Did they feel sorry for boys when they saw them sent on a cross country run stripped to the waist

Completely agree with Roy & Sceptic!

I agree.

What a load of old cobblers!

Just to talk about pe shirtless experience
One time we were doing PE and we were playing football at sea. It was winter and we were with a vest because there were around 35/38 F. degrees. One of my friend made my a strong faul and I reacted so that teacher order me to take off my shirt and to play without it as a punishment. It was very cold but I was used to it because sometimes I run in snow bare chested. The problem was that I threw her my shirt so that she got very angry and said: “ok if you don’t want to go to the headmaster for this, just go into the sea” I was frozen, without a shirt and it also started raining, in fact my classmates went to repare under a palm, but I had to do this thing to avoid the headmaster so I entered in the sea and remained there for some minutes. When I came out she didn’t give me back my shirt so that I was shirtless with pouring rain on my chest and I couldn’t warm in any way... unluckily I reacted another time to the teacher so after we went back to school on foot, obviously I was still shirtless under rain, she said ok we must continue. She said ok I put your shirt in your class but you’ll go back school after other 2 hours of excericises. She let me run for other 10 kilometer in a park near school. It was very muddy and my chest got dirty. Then she let me made a lot of push ups near puddles so that I can got more dirty. At the end of the punishment, which lasted 3 hours, she said “ok you’re tough, you can go back school on foot, I’ll go back by car because there are 5 kilometres”... the last 5 kilometers I was too tired, it stopped raining but it started hailing and my chest was covered in mud, grass, water and other dirty things.. at the end I discovered that it wasn’t only a punishment because she also gave me 10 which is the maximum vote so that all this effort was paid.. moreover it was very exciting too and I think that in the future I could do this thing another time, maybe even more tough.

John, I find ironic the girls couldn't wait for us to be stripped to the waist and sweating freely, a very regular feature of our PE/Games lessons.

I agree with Rob and Craig that it’s better to do PE stripped to the waist. Feminists are doing harm to males by suppressing normal masculine development. Most lads prefer to exercise shirtless if they are given the chance.

Craig A, sorry, I meant to type 'communal showers'.

Craig A, I agree with you entirely.When we arrived for our first PE lesson we were told to go to the changing room and strip off completely,including our pants and socks and to come back into the gym wearing just shorts with nothing on underneath and plimsolls. On the way to the changing room some lads were asking whether we were allowed to wear a T shirt and we said 'no, just shorts and plimsolls'. That was how it always was for us indoors and out, including cross country running and it was most enjoyable. At the end of the first lesson it was a shock being made to go naked into the open corporate showers but we soon got used to it as we all progressed during our time at the school from being boys to become confident young men.

We were made to strip to the waist a few mins into the first lesson and made very clear that we would strip off for all exercise, indoors and out. This was indeed the case for us. There is no reason not to have the lads stripped indoors it's the feminist brigade stopping boys becoming young men. I'm sure the majority would embrace it too.

A few years ago the current mantra was:- "Stranger Danger" resulting in people being afraid to help a child in difficulties for fear of being accused of being a paedophile. In fact children are often more in danger from close associates even family members.

Bernard has prompted me to comment that I too thought Ambrose's remarks were exceptionally good. No doubt many of the measures taken today to protect children are well-intentioned but the cumulative effect creates the impression that danger lurks everywhere. No wonder children worry more than they did 50 years ago.

It has been a while since I looked at the comments here and I was interested to see those about boxing. When my older brother started at Grammar School the p.e. kit list included a pair of red shorts specifically for boxing though this sport was never encountered and the shorts never worn. When I started at the school two years later I was not bought a pair. We only ever wore the black or white shorts.
Ambrose - you comment on 8th June was absolutely spot on! I can relate to all your points having been born in the early 50s. Times were so much simpler then and common sense more abundant rather than the hysteria we see these days about the stupidest of things.

Hi GSB, It was but you soon got used to the extra time. I lost my first fight but at least went the distance. I remember taking some real beatings and stripping to the waist for PE, making up excuses for the bruises. Always apologising if I did knock anyone out.. no idea why! Giving prizemoney to my gran which always went towards housekeeping.

Hi GSB, It was but you soon got used to the extra time. I lost my first fight but at least went the distance. I remember taking some real beatings and stripping to the waist for PE, making up excuses for the bruises. Always apologising if I did knock anyone out.. no idea why! Giving prizemoney to my gran which always went towards housekeeping.

Hi Andrew

Many thanks for your reply. That must have been a bit of a shock going from 3 x 70-second rounds to 5 x 2-minute rounds when you turned 13!

Any memorable bouts you can tell us about (either your own or those you watched)?

Hi John, Not sure about respect but never had a problem with bullies after I started to box. Most fights were in various farmsheds so not to attract attention. I only ever fought one lad who only left his vest. His mum wanted him to wear it being his debut fight. . It was sticking to him at the end of second round. After that he stripped off like the rest of us.

Hi Andrew,
At least you had the opportunity to box whilst you were still at school, I bet you got a lot of respect from other lads of your age when they found out that you boxed. I can’t understand why any male would want to wear a vest or shirt to box in, it just feels natural as a male to strip to the waist to box and most lads would think any lad was soft if they wanted to keep their shirt on.

Hi John, Boxing was done away from school in what could be best described as a fight club. It was hard but we had more respect fighting stripped to the waist as everyone sees how you take it and watch you sweat up.

Hi Andrew,

You were really lucky that you had the opportunity to box whilst at secondary school. I would love to have had the chance to try boxing, I think that it’s good for lad’s confidence and should have been on the PE curriculum.

Hi GSB, The fights were held privately and on the QT in remote spots and lads were from age 10 upwards. For your debut you could wear a vest, though most didn't, after that you stripped off. U13s fought a max of 3x 70 second rounds,13+ fought 5x 2 min rounds,16+ fought 6x 2mins 30. The pot was split 3 ways to the lads who'd put up the best fight. Hope this helps.

Hi Everyone. My name is Rob but since there already seem to be a number of Robs here, I’ve called myself GSB (Grammar School Boy)!

I look in on this site from time to time and at first could not believe its popularity in terms of both the number of views and posts, but thinking about it, perhaps I should not be surprised. When one gets to a certain age, I think most of us start looking back at our school days either with great fondness or regret - or a mixture of the two. And PE lessons always seem to create strong emotions – usually either love or hate, and because they were different to the majority of lessons (ie, not desk-bound and classroom-based) form strong memories – even after half a century, I can still remember quite a few specific incidents that happened in PE - the same cannot be said for Maths, French, Chemistry, Geography or any other lesson!

Just for the record, and at risk of boring everyone, my kit was similar to so many others here. Indoor PE was done in white ankle socks, white plimsolls and short white shorts. Outdoors, athletics, cross-country and tennis were the same but with a white t-shirt which, unofficially, was optional. Actually, thinking about it, from probably sometime in the second year upwards, the socks and plimsolls became unofficially optional in the gym, so if you had no homework books to carry, on days you had PE, you could just roll up your shorts and stuff them in your blazer pocket (much to Mum’s annoyance who carefully washed and ironed them every week!) How different to the huge bags full of kit one sees poor kids struggling with today. Sometimes minimalist and simplest is best!

Andrew Pearson - I have just read your post (1st May) – “My sisters weren’t keen on seeing me in a ring but it helped bring in some extra money for essentials” - have I understood it correctly that you were paid to take part in boxing matches whilst still at school? Please tell us more – I am intrigued.

And to all those who have mentioned boxing at school, please tell us more details of how it was organised and how it all worked, along with any particular memories you have. The one thing I was hugely looking forward to doing at secondary school was the boxing – only to find when I got there (this was the mid 1960's), that it had been stopped the year before. My frustration and anger continue to this day, and I remain fascinated by the whole idea, and would love to hear all about it in much more detail from those lucky (or some might say unlucky?) enough to have done boxing as part of PE.

TimH, good to know there are so many lads voluntarily opting to play football with their tops off. As you say, they should definitely be encouraged - but I think John is right to suggest a shirtless rule for PE. The reason is that if it's optional then only the more confident boys will take their tops off, others - who may be shy - won't and their self esteem could suffer further as they grow up. I was in the latter group as a young teen and I'm thankful now that I wasn't given the option in PE. I was often required to do it shirtless throughout my school years and I feel that really helped me in the long run.

Addendum to Ambrose's comments We stood at the football ground.We didn't count the calories and we didn't have to worry about whether we had five a day or not!Happy Days!

Tim H,
I didn’t wish to imply that lads should have to play football or other games outside in winter shirtless, that would be ridiculous. Doing indoor gym classes and playing indoor team games shirtless was fine, I never felt that I was being abused and my teachers were totally normal and treated us appropriately always.

The point I was trying to make is that given the choice many lads are happy to play sports shirtless.

Ambrose well scripted although I was sixties and seventies I can relate to all those topics you itemised!How true.

John - I'm not so sure I'd want to make it a rule but I think that encouraging lads to do some sports shirtless is OK - it is more natural - certainly indoor gym & summer sports outside, but thinking of the cold winter we've had I wouldn't want to make boys do outdoor sports topless in that.

From past experience I suspect the lads I saw will probably stay topless for much of the summer - certainly well into September and that that they'll discover that they prefer shorter shorts rather than the long baggy sort some people seem to prefer. So much of this is down to useage - when you get used to something it becomes natural.

I'm lucky to live in a leafy semi-rural area where lots of the children still walk to the local Middle school. Just casual observations make me think that a good proportion of the boys prefer shorts - certainly in summer - and that, like posties, wearing shorts in bad weather is seen as a 'mark of honour' - I did see one lad walking to school in shorts last December.

(Of course, there is the story of a lady [not local] who saw two boys going to school in shorts in October and reported the parents to Social Services for mistreating them)