Burnley Grammar School

Reggie - I would have said the lads in the photo are probably first or second year in secondary education. I think kids tended to look younger then than they do now

The boys in the old photo above all seem to be primary school age.
We didn't have a gym or gym coach in our primary school in the 60s. Our class teacher just took us out for PE in the schoolyard to do some exercises and running after changing into a white shorts and vest in the classroom.
I was not aware of any primary schools having proper gyms in those days. We did have a gym and gym coach in secondary school, but not in primary.
How many here actually had a gym in primary school?

It could have been different in junior boarding or preparatory schools of which I don't know much about.

Jason, I can imagine your mum's reaction - it sounds like you were quite proud about acquiring your new underwear!
By complete contrast I remember being embarrassed the first time mum hung one of my bras on the washing line when dad was at home.

Andrea, jock-straps themselves weren't compulsory, but supportive underwear most definitely was. In practical terms, that was interpreted to be form-fitting briefs, rather than loose boxers, as a minimum and ideally speedo-type swimming trunks or jock-straps. One of my best mates was the first in my class to actually get a jock-strap, which caused a bit of a sensation in the changing room the first time we saw it, but within a few weeks, most of us had managed to acquire one, and we generally wore them all day on PE days. Mum had never seen one before, and thought it hilarious when I modelled mine at home the day Dad bought it.

We had a system of punishment runs. This was a grammar school, boys only, late 1960’s.

Tuesday and Thursday evenings directly after school, years 1 to 3 on Tuesday, rest on Thursday. Immediately after school, our normal xc course, so 4 miles. Kit was pe shorts, always stripped to the waist, usually plimsolls; one teacher made you run barefoot. Cold shower to finish.

Numbers varied, for a few boys up to a dozen or so.

Kai - Have you told your PE teacher that you would be more comfortable without a shirt while exercising? Or have you even just taken your shirt off without any prior discussion?

I'm am a high school school student right now, I wish students were given the option to not wear a shirt if they don't want to. We already see each other in our underwear in the change room... I would feel more comfortable without a sweaty, tight shirt.

Jason, did your PE teacher mandate jockstraps from a certain school year, or speak to boys about it once they reached a certain stage of development?
My Ex said that they didn't wear anything under their shorts until the start of their third year at Secondary (so aged about 13), when their PE teacher advised them all to purchase a jockstrap. He said that some boys could really have done with wearing one before then.

Of course we girls started to need support for our 'floppy bits' in a different area. In most cases this was dealt with by our mothers, but our PE teacher did suggest to a few girls that the purchase of a bra was overdue!

As Jason said .... "The only dress requirement, as far as our PE staff were concerned, related to the safety and security of one's "floppy bits", and so supportive underwear, especially jock-straps for the more well-endowed, was mandated." Jockstraps weren't mandatory but every boy was wearing one at my school 13 years inward. Was a statement of manlihood as much as one of need. I still wear a jockstrap and nothing compares to it for support in my opinion.

For the 'lovers' (& 'haters') of 'topless' cross-country - there was an article in yesterdays (2nd Feb) edition of the 'Daily Telegraph' on the 'joys' of 'bareskin running' (Have a look at; https://www.healthyfamilynews.com/2021/02/01/forget-wild-swimming-were-bareskin-running-now/)

Fiona, I was in my first year at school, so I would have been nearly 6. Mum wasn't too bothered when I told her I didn't need a PJ top any more.

Jason - Jan 31st
What age were you when your Mum encouraged you to sleep topless? Did you carry on through the winter, or did you have to wear PJS tops to bed again?

Thank you Luke for such an interesting account of your PE experiences, there's so much in it that really resonates with me. I also remember that mixed feeling of being shy at the prospect of going barechested, yet part of me wanting to try it and feeling excited about the idea.
It sounds as though your school had an excellent approach to the whole situation, opting to encourage boys to do PE without a top rather than making it compulsory. One thing that seems clear from this whole discussion is that there's no 'one size fits all' approach. Some boys are keen to exercise barechested, some are horrified at the idea and some are curious but need the opportunity to give it a go.
My personal experience was the same as yours in that, if there hadn't been shirts and skins games in my PE lessons, I probably wouldn't have taken my top off in the first place. The reason I did was because the teacher picked the teams and assigned me to the skins, so the choice was taken out of my hands. In theory the idea of asking who's comfortable with being skins is a good one - I'm not convinced it would work though as only boys who were already more confident would volunteer.
No doubt it may be different for others, but for me the initial self consciousness of being barechested gradually gave way to growing confidence. This was early 1990s by the way.

I was someone who was introduced to bare chestedness through PE, and when I first got to try it, I found:
- I liked feeling the wind/rain/sun/cold on my shoulders and back, and it was new to me
- It felt freeing and made me more confident
- It was thrilling to be one of the few shirtless

Sam H - My class was not mixed sex.
The girls were definitely surprised and interested to see us bare chested. They were clearly not looking at my face, but at my chest. I felt good about it, I thought I would feel shy but I didn't. I think this was a good experience because it showed me that going shirtless in front of girls, even though I was skinny, was still a good thing.

I attended a different school for 6 months when I was 13 due to travel and in that school they had no uniform for PE. The boys wore long shorts and big t-shirts. If I had asked to take my top off, I really think they would have said no.

Chris P - If they had forced us to be shirtless, I think I would have still ended up liking it. Wearing no top on a cross country run though might not have been enjoyable if I had been forced to be cold. By choosing to wear no top, I faced the cold and rain on my own terms. I think it was a good challenge.
But we were forced to be shirtless sometimes, such as shirts and skins games. I think the reason a choice worked well was that they reminded us that we could choose whether to wear a top. The instructor reminded us 'for tennis, you don't need your top'.

Alan - it would be great to offer a choice, while still making it a chance for those who are nervous about being bare chested to give it a try. If there hadn't been shirts and skins games I might never have given it a try. Perhaps they could ask who is ok being on the skins team?

Reading some of the horror stories recounted here makes me appreciate how enlightened my own 1970s comprehensive was, especially in the PE Department. No punishment beatings, no detentions, no masochism, just plain honest exercise. Sports kit, economically multi-functional, to say the least, comprised black Rugby shorts, bi-coloured reversible Rugby shirts and knee-length socks, catering for all outdoor activities, Rugby from September to March, Cricket and Tennis through the summer, and cross-country year-round. With two of each item, we, or more usually our Mums, didn't have to wash today's field-muddied garments for tomorrow's indoor PE class. For PE in the gym, the kit-list specified plimsolls (socks optional) and a vest.

Like Luke, I soon discovered that the PE vest was another optional item. If you wore one, that was OK. If you wore your Rugby shirt, that was OK. If you wanted to go topless for the session, that was OK, too, and was actually encouraged by the staff. In practice, almost all of us opted to be topless, by choice rather than compulsion, and I can't remember anyone wearing a top for a whole lesson. The only dress requirement, as far as our PE staff were concerned, related to the safety and security of one's "floppy bits", and so supportive underwear, especially jock-straps for the more well-endowed, was mandated.

At the practical level, being topless didn't bother me at all. As a kid, Mum had encouraged me to take my shirt off when playing outside in the sunshine, and even to go to bed minus my PJ top during hot nights. Needless to say, she then had the greatest difficulty in getting me to keep a top on when she thought I needed one.

Jason,

I never did swimming in school so I can't comment on that.

If we forgot our kit for PE we were given a pair of bright red nylon shorts and expected to be shirtless and barefoot whether in or out.

All indoor PE was barefoot and if you didn't have trainers then you went outside barefoot.

Luke - I think your school had the most sensible idea - you had the choice to wear a top or not wear a top, and it is good to know some schools didn't dictate, even if they expressed a preference. That is all I have been arguing for on here - especially for older pupils.

I don't know if you missed it:

Stuart, Ross:

what about swimming?
what happened if you forgot your kit?

Luke - Were your PE lessons mixed or single sex? I noticed you mentioned the girls seeing you shirtless in the hall afterwards. What was thier reaction (and yours) to you being shirtless?

Luke, Your school was definitely progressive. My boarding school had a mandatory bare chested policy for all from the age of 9 to 18 when I left in 1995. After changing for our first lesson we were simply told to run and leave our vests along the back wall of the gym and run back to the front then the lesson began. From that point no-one ever wore a vest indoors again which given we were all worked hard to show sweat on our bare chests. It was unheard of for any male class to leave the gym not sweating.
Outside we did have rugby shirts but it was common for the teachers to pick a team of skins as opposition and maintain a bare chested presence for exercising. The feeling of freezing rain driving onto my bare chest/back remains with me.

Stuart,

Ah yes I had an afternoon games lesson every week too which is when we did outside sports such as rugby, cricket, athletics and cross country. We had a single period indoor lesson weekly too.

Inside it was always shorts n tee with bare feet and outside we were allowed a rugby shirt and trainers (sockless if you didn't bring a spare pair)

If you forgot any part of kit we went without and often there'd be a boy running around outside shirtless and barefoot.

Punishments were running laps and detentions.

I went to secondary school starting in 1993, before which I had only ever been bare chested in my own bedroom or at an indoor swimming pool. I also had only one pair of shorts that were knee length.
I had seen other boys who were shirtless and I was curious about it, but very shy and embarrassed. I was very skinny but I wasn't ashamed of being skinny. Mostly I was aware that bare skin made me feel vulnerable. Even wearing a t-shirt made me feel nervous.

The PE uniform they assigned us was white cotton shorts and red singlet for indoor PE, Rugby shirt, shorts, kleats and knee socks for outdoor PE in the winter, and a cricket shirt (white) with white shorts for summer outdoor PE. I tried the PE kit on at home in my room and found the shorts were very short and I had never worn a singlet before.

For the first PE class in the gym, they did not have us change, but gave us a talk on the rules and uniform. The PE teacher said to us: "the gym uniform is shorts and singlet OR shorts and no shirt. We prefer you to be bare chested, that is with no shirt on."
I was shocked but also excited because I started thinking about what it would be like to wear no shirt.

For the first indoor PE class everyone wore their shorts and singlet except one boy. He was a friend of mine and I was really impressed. He continued to come to class shirtless and was the only one, but I didn't want to ask him about it.
We had hour first shirts and skins basketball game but I was on the shirts team.
The first time I took my shirt off was during a running game in the gym and a few other boys had take their shirts off already. I suddenly took mine off and threw it to the side. I felt really free and relaxed with it off, it was a very different experience. I kept my shirt off for the rest of that class, even though some boys put their back on, and I remember we saw some girls in the hall on the way back to the changing rooms and that they noticed me.

We did cross country in the winter, and a few boys ran shirtless, but I didn't. I thought about coming to class regularly with no shirt, but was still really shy about it. It wasn't until year 8 that I did it. I pretended to have left my singlet at home, and I remember being stared at as I walked in, bare chested, in the gym and I felt embarrassed. But at the end of class my PE instructor patted me on the back and said "it is really good that someone shy like you could come to class with no shirt. Most boys would hide in the changing room." I said, "thank you. I might try it again sometime." he said "good".
I started to come to class shirtless and it really helped build my confidence. By the time I was 14-15 I was not shy about being in shorts and bare chested outdoors, cycling shirtless with my friends, being shirtless at the campsite, or running shirtless. All thanks to the flexible PE uniform policy that showed me it was OK.

Ross

We had 2 pe lessons a week, one in the gym, one xc. In addition we had a games afternoon each week, involving rugby, then cricket.

Looking back the school had strict rules, but to us it was normal. Things like having tidy uniform, correct kit, putting clothes neatly on peg in changing room etc. We had the normal range of punishments from classroom detentions, punishment runs, up to caning.

In the summer it was great to run in just shorts, not so much in the winter

Stuart, Ross:

what about swimming?

Stuart,

Sounds like a tough cross country, and weekly! Gosh. I had a cross country every term and I though that was bad. Our outside kit was rugby shirt, shorts and trainers Probably seems a little extravagant compared to your minimal kit and bare feet.
Although I did run cross country barefoot a few times on the occasions I forgot my trainers.

Ross

Once I settled into the school, I realised that all cross country was in only shorts as we often saw groups of boys on the way out or returning from their run.

Cross country was a weekly event for all boys, and took place irrespective of the weather. We had to change and line up outside the gym ready. On that first day, not only was I cold because I was stripped to the waist, but also it felt really uncomfortable with my feet on the gravel. One of the other boys said you’ll get used to it, and added were not allowed to talk, or we’ll both be punished.

I soon discover that shorts only meant exactly that, and even briefs had to come off. Both cross country and pe lessons were strict, and disobeying rules soon got you punished, either with the plimsolls, or cane. About 4 weeks in, 2 boys skipped part of the xc course, were caught, and were caned in front of us, 6 strokes each.

Winter was worse, especially if it was cold and wet. Within a few mins you had water running down your bare back.

Stuart, your comment reminded me of my own school switch in middle school aged 10 due to moving house. I went to a middle school that did pe in shorts, tee and trainers. On my first day of the new school we had pe! I didn't bring my kit and I only had the trainers I wore to school, luckily I was let off and loaned a kit because I was the new boy but on changing I saw all the other lads pulling their shoes and socks off and leaving their feet bare. Well I just put on my trainers and started walking into the hall when a fellow pupil told me "erm we do pe barefoot " I ignored him which I regret because when our PE teacher saw my trainers she immediately told me to take my trainers and socks off and said we do pe barefoot at this school.

I changed schools at 12 because my parents moved.

My old school did both cross country and indoor pe in what I regarded as normal kit, meaning shorts, vest, plimsolls.

Day 2 at my new school it was freezing cold, so my mum packed my new rugby shirt for cross country, saying I expect it will be called off. I pretty soon found out from my new mates that we wore just shorts, but thought I was being wound up.

Anyway, we all arrived at the gym changing rooms, and started to undress. I noticed all the other boys were just pulling shorts on, nothing on their feet, and stripped to the waist. Pretty soon I worked out that we had to run like this. I was frozen.

Back home I told my parents about our kit, my dads reaction was it won’t do you any harm, wait until you get the cane ! It didn’t take long for me to discover how painful the cane was.

My apologies - the recent posting about Peter Swan and the length of shorts is from me - not Frank C (returns wine bottle to where it was ...)
T

I saw the picture some years back and its down to be recorded when it appears.

One thing which comes up is the length of shorts. My paper carried an obit of the England footballer Perter Swan. It says his 'trademark was hitching up the baggy shorts of the day to reveal his legs [apparently he had a pefect physique]. 'I got it off Albert Quixall' he said. 'He told me "You look at athletes. They don't wear big , baggy trousers" '. (Another obit says it was to make him look intimidating to the opposition)