Burnley Grammar School

Ambrose.
I completely concur with your comments. Those were the days of freedom not like it is now. With regards to education, at least we could converse without having to use the word "like" which the youngsters seem to do nearly every other word like!!

Yes we knew about "stranger danger" but then usually we were out to with at least one or two friends and there was safety in numbers.
How things have changed. If I am out on my own without my wife or son and smile at a young child, I do worry about what the response of the adult with that child will be.

Tim H,

Your recent observations would seem to be proof that most lads enjoy playing sports shirtless. Therefore there was nothing wrong with a stripped to the waist rule for boys Physical Education.

Just a comment a boys being topless (Or not): in the recent hot weather I've several times seen boys (young teens?) playing football on open ground near me - all in shorts, all topless - and not an adult about to 'enforce' a 'skins' rule.

How times have changed! Congratulations to all who survived being born in the 40's and 50's to mothers who smoked/drank, ate blue cheese and raw egg products, and processed meat, and didn't get tested for diabetes or cervical cancer. After that trauma our baby cots were covered with lead based paint, and medicine bottles had no child proof lids.
We rode in cars with no seat belts, and when we rode our bikes we had no helmets. We drank water from taps not bottles, and take away food was limited to fish and chips; no pizza, KFC, McDonalds etc. We didn't starve to death even though shops closed at 6:00pm and all day Sunday. We shared one fizzy drink bottle with four friends and no one actually died from this!

We ate white bread with real butter, had full fat milk and soft drinks with sugar in, but we weren't overweight because we were always playing outside. We would leave home in the morning and play all day, with no one able to reach us, and we were OK. We would spend hours building go-carts with no brakes, tree houses and dens, and go paddling in streams. We fell out of trees, got cuts, broke bones and teeth, and there were no law suits from these accidents. We had no Playstations, Nintendo Wii, X-boxes, video games, mobile phones, personal computers or internet chat rooms, - we had friends!

Not everyone made the school teams. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Our teachers used to hit us with canes and gym shoes, or throw blackboard rubbers at us if we weren't concentrating; but we could string a sentence together and spell, and have proper conversations because of a good solid three R's education.
Even though we ran around wearing the minimum of clothing on a hot summers day every person we passed was not seen as a child molester; we knew what we should and shouldn't do with strangers.

We grew up in an age where we had freedom, failure, success, responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all. An age before the lawyers and government regulated our lives for our own good - and through it all we survived!

Jonathan C, I couldn’t agree with you more. Being made to strip to the waist for PE and games makes lads more confident. I enjoyed gym and sports far more than I would have done if I’d had to endure a hot sweaty shirt stuck to my back. Presumably the poor school boys of 2018 that get too hot whilst doing PE will never be allowed to take their shirts off to cool down.

I think we were very lucky to have been educated when we were, it seems that there was more consideration given to what was best for lads then.
Nowadays the primary concern is to keep boys covered up in case the
sight of barechested lads exercising might offend someone; this restricts lads normal development as males I think.

John, He admitted later he should've just stripped off and got on with it. He proved he could handle being stripped and joined me on the school's xcountry team later in the year. There's no real reason for lads not to strip off for sport/exercise. It's part of the feminist culture that stops lads being treated as lads.

Jonathan C, I do have some sympathy for the lad who was new to your school. The lad’s parents would have received a uniform list that stated that he needed a vest for PE, so it clearly came as a shock to him being told to strip to the waist. At his previous school he must have been used to always wearing tops and he must not have played shirts vs skins either. The lad was very brave by defying the PE teacher.

I think that it was good that he received some punishment but I think that they went too far. The lad should have done as he was told by the teacher.

Some lads at my Senior School protested when the PE teacher told them that PE would be done stripped to the waist but none of them dared to defy the teacher and just did as they were told.

Chris, No, I never had a problem with my sisters seeing me without a shirt and in just a pair of shorts.They enjoyed it when I used to exercise in the garden, especially when I was swinging my arms about and doing other exercises as we did stripped off in PE at school.

Hi John, It was only basketball we did as vests vs skins so it was normal to see vests sticking to backs when we played. Vests vs skins was a quick and simple way to create teams.

John, When we were 14 one lad in our class who'd recently moved to the school refused to strip off for a lesson in the gym and was made to spend his lunchtimes stripped off on the field doing a mix of press ups, and sit ups for a week. Some of girls found it funny but on the whole the PE teachers were respected. You knew how you were on and what you needed to do.

Jonathan C, I can’t understand why your school made you wear vests for PE and then got you all to take them off as soon as you got into the gym. Did any lads refuse to put their vest on in the changing room? and what happened if a lad didn’t have his vest on when he entered the gym.

It would surely have been better to have had a shorts only rule for PE and parents could have saved money by not having to buy vests. Sounds like the teachers liked to make lads strip off in the gym. I would have felt like refusing to put a vest on in the changing room. I preferred doing gym without a top anyway.

Harry,
We wore shorts and a T shirt for PE throughout primary school. As you suggest, we girls got quite adept at pulling on our shorts before we took off our skirts! The T shirts were put on over our vests.
If someone forgot their PE kit, they had to do it in their vest and pants.

By the end of our final year at primary, about 3 of my classmates had started to wear bras. One girl in particular was always taller than the rest of us and had filled out enough to start wearing a bra just after Christmas and another couple followed suit over the following months. The rest of us remained in vests.
Of course back then there were no crop-tops or similar to ease the transition from vests to bras.

I was still totally flat-chested when I left primary school and didn't start to wear a bra regularly until the start my second year at secondary.

Were the vests you wore for PE, just your normal ones you wore under your school shirts, or were they specific PE vests?

Rob, did you ever feel shy or uncomfortable going without a shirt around your younger sisters? How would they react?

John, Stripping off for competitions gave an added edge for both teams and its easy to see the effort going in. For our PE/Games lessons, we knew going into the gym we'd be made to strip off, dropping vests along the wall, before exercising. Our teachers had the knack, even in a cold gym to make whole classes sweat visibly long before the end of the lesson.

Jonathan C,

I guess like me you were used to being stripped to the waist for PE and cross country. I got to prefer exercising without having to wear a shirt. The teachers helped us by toughening us up.

John, I represented my school in inter school competitions for fitness, basketball and xcountry competitions. Normally both schools teams would strip off as the colour of our shorts didn't clash. For xcountry during the winter, schools were given a choice of wearing a vest/t-shirt or to strip off. Our teachers always chose the latter so before the start we always entertained the small crowd by stripping to the waist, and each time we were greeted by an audible "oooh" from the females.

Andrea, I think it was school policy for the older boys and girls to wear shorts and vests.
Yes, we still changed together in class, but it was no problem for girls since all wore skirts at the time and they just put their shorts on under their skirt before taking it off.
As for boys I don't think it bothered any of us to take our school shorts off and put on our PE shorts.
However the rule still remained that if you forgot your PE kit you just did it in underpants, both boys and girls.

Like you mention there were a few girls who started to develop breasts in the final year, but I don't think they would have been prominent or big enough to require a bra, the vest would have been enough to hold them in place. :)

Did you always wear shorts and vests throughout primary for PE? What if someone forgot their PE kit?

Simon S,

Would you have preferred it if there had been a shorts only rule for gym, cross country and basketball at your school. Lads could have worn different coloured bibs or sashes to differentiate teams and you would not have felt singled out by being picked to be on the skins team. I think it was much better not having to wear shirts for sports, hot sweaty shirts sticking to your back are not pleasant.

Hi Frank, you appear disappointed you weren't made to strip to the waist more often. What did you wear in the gym, if not a skin.

Harry,

Did the whole school change to wearing shorts and vests then, or just the older boys and girls?

Also,once you started wearing shorts and vests, did the boys and girls still get changed to together in the same classroom? That was how it was at my primary school in the mid to late 1960s. The only exception, in our final year, were a few girls who had 'developed' enough to start wearing bras rather than vests - they were allowed to change in the toilets.

Simon S The converse applied to my school experience because the number of times I was told to be a skin and have to strip to my waist was frequently less than other lads in my year.The occasions I was instructed to be a skin was both pleasurable and satisfying adding to the gymnastic event!

I was in primary in the early 60s and we did mixed PE lessons in just underpants, both boys and girls, till year 4 about age 10. After that we wore white PE shorts and vests, identical for both boys and girls.
But I don't think this would happen today.

Like Simon I can't imagine there are many schools left which make girls (or boys for that matter) do PE in just their knickers or underpants.
As I recall, when my son was at Primary school, the girls and boys didn't even get changed in the same classroom after about year 4.

With regard to the comment from Claire about girls not wearing vests nowadays, I would say that at least half the girls were wearing some form of crop top or bra-lette by year 6 and few were wearing vests.


Joan- what decade was it when you had to do PE topless, and up to what age?

Hi Claire, Couldn't imagine too many schools would make girls strip off. Despite our PE kit listing a vest, our teachers had us boys stripped to the waist from the age of 9 through to 18, for all gym work (including fitness sessions) xcountry runs and athletics in summer. Basketball was played vests vs skins. I never knew why but the teachers always singled me out to strip down for that too.

Re:Comments by Amy on 28th March 2018

Amy, you say your girls remove outer clothes and vests for PE. I didn't think any kids, girls especially, wore vests these days, and none of mine would have been seen dead in a vest by the time they reached year 5.

Amy,

I had similar experiences when at school but I am surprised it still goes on. Just out of curiosity, in what part of the country is your daughters' school?

Hi Chris, I am the youngest of three. To be honest, I was never bothered about being topless around my sisters. They saw lads doing PE topless at school so it wasn't new and they'd watch me box stripped down too. Classes were never mixed, just boys and girls separately. The girls wore either gym skirt or knickers and a pale yellow top.

Pearson, were you older or younger than your sisters? Were you shy being shirtless around your sisters and other girls? Did you ever feel uncomfortable? Were all PE classes mixed? What did the girls wear?

Toby, I've re read your post. I recall one of my fights when I was 13. My opponent, also 13, wore a vest for his debut fight and was soaked after a couple of rounds. After the fight he'd wanted to strip down but his mum stopped him. We went on to be the best of friends to this day.

Hi Andrew,I agree it was chilly taking part in gymnastics and sport,sometimes shirtless,I often thought this was done to toughen us up.
Certainly it was a statutory requirement for me to wear short trousers throughout the winter months,so I became accustomed to bare legs,albeit you could freeze in shorts in the winter.
I'm sure girls did approve of us wearing minimal clothing,but they wore more suitable clothing for the cold weather and often shared the gym when it was too cold for them to go outside.