Burnley Grammar School

Re:Comments by Amy on 28th March 2018

Amy, you say your girls remove outer clothes and vests for PE. I didn't think any kids, girls especially, wore vests these days, and none of mine would have been seen dead in a vest by the time they reached year 5.

Amy,

I had similar experiences when at school but I am surprised it still goes on. Just out of curiosity, in what part of the country is your daughters' school?

Hi Chris, I am the youngest of three. To be honest, I was never bothered about being topless around my sisters. They saw lads doing PE topless at school so it wasn't new and they'd watch me box stripped down too. Classes were never mixed, just boys and girls separately. The girls wore either gym skirt or knickers and a pale yellow top.

Pearson, were you older or younger than your sisters? Were you shy being shirtless around your sisters and other girls? Did you ever feel uncomfortable? Were all PE classes mixed? What did the girls wear?

Toby, I've re read your post. I recall one of my fights when I was 13. My opponent, also 13, wore a vest for his debut fight and was soaked after a couple of rounds. After the fight he'd wanted to strip down but his mum stopped him. We went on to be the best of friends to this day.

Hi Andrew,I agree it was chilly taking part in gymnastics and sport,sometimes shirtless,I often thought this was done to toughen us up.
Certainly it was a statutory requirement for me to wear short trousers throughout the winter months,so I became accustomed to bare legs,albeit you could freeze in shorts in the winter.
I'm sure girls did approve of us wearing minimal clothing,but they wore more suitable clothing for the cold weather and often shared the gym when it was too cold for them to go outside.

Hi Toby, Yes! Apologies for confusion. In answer to your question our school had a full barechested/skins policy for boys/lads PE/Games. It was freezing in the gym in winter anyway so being outside made little difference. I do remember the girls commenting they fully approved of all boys being stripped whether we were indoors or not.

I'm guessing the 2 Mr Pearsons are the same. You mentioned about wearing a vest. Were you singled out to strip off by the teachers for PE/Games and how did you feel about it?

Hi Frank, We all lived with our gran. My sisters weren't keen seeing me in a ring but it helped bring some extra money for essentials. Somebody bricked up the hatch at the back of the coalhouse so being the only male I got the job to shovel it in. Doing it topless saved my school shirt. The vest was for bed. When I turned 11 it became too small but was never replaced.

Thanks for your response re vests.What with the Boxing class and the coal delivery I bet you were toughened up! I remember our coal was put straight into the coal shed some nutty slack had to be brushed up after the delivery.

Hi Frank, I was made to start boxing classes out of school and every lad was stripped off regardless of age. When we had a coal delivery it was dumped in the yard for me to shovel into the coalhouse after school a nice 2 hour job. One of my sisters suggested I wore a vest but changed her mind when she saw it sticking to my top.

MikeL,
I find it hard to believe your comments at all

Our PE staff were brutal. We were told all boys would strip off both indoors and outside and to make a point picked one lad to put his vest back on before ripping it halfway down and made him remove the remains. The frequent use of "rat's tail" a vest submerged in water, rung out and applied across your bare back or chest didn't half sting.

I came across a you tube video of Kettering Schools Summer Sports Day dated 1959 sounds familiar!All the field events are shown long jump high jump etc.and the students have white tops on none are without vests.Filmed in June of that year.Strange how school policy dictates whether skin or vests rule!

Sterling, I agree that it was better to be a skin rather than wearing bibs or sashes. Bernard’s school probably had the best idea with lads taking both a black and a white pair of shorts to PE class. The PE teacher could divide the lads up in the changing room and tell them to either get changed into black or white shorts. All lads could then remain stripped to the waist for all PE, which most lads preferred anyway.

As many have mentioned, we actually had Bibs Vs Skins rather than shirts. They allowed from some airflow but the ones we had were horrendous. Worse than a sweat saturated vest and could leave a nasty nipple rash. Hence being a skin was preferable!
We didn't have footwear nevermind breathable sportswear available today!
Barefoot being preferred to those plymsoles.

Frank & Bernard, I wore sashes once over the shoulder and they were irritating because they kept slipping off. The next PE session our PE teacher gave out the bibs again, the bibs were better because they stayed in place. The bibs were only relatively small so we were still able to have that great feeling of bare chest and back. I’m so thankful that my school had stripped to the waist rule for boys PE I’d have hated to have to wear a top and get hot and sweaty with it stuck to your back. PE kit rules made much more sense back then. There is no need to wear a top for PE.

I remember the coloured sashes being issued out for the P.E.session red and blue ones!They were used for the field events outside in the summer term.The advantage of these is you got that bare chest and back feeling.

Simon - in the gym we were only allowed to wear white shorts and teams were distinguished by the wearing of coloured bands over one shoulder. This was not very satisfactory as they tended to slip off your shoulder if they were too big.
Outside we were supposed to have our white shorts for cross country and summer games whilst we had black shorts for winter games. In practice, as we started off taking both pairs in on days we had outdoor games, we would wear black or white shorts when we needed to distinguish teams.
Both systems were good in that we were all treated the same - no boy ever had to wear a shirt and most of us were happy enough with that.

Thanks everyone for the answers to my question about teams in PE, those all sound like sensible systems and preferable to shirts and skins. I think the key is it should be the same for every boy, otherwise some can feel they're being singled out.
JonAt1, like you I was one of the boys who was made to be a skin on a regular basis and I didn't like at first. Partly because I was naturally shy, partly because it just seemed unfair that I had to strip to the waist every time when other lads didn't... but with hindsight it may have been a tough love approach from my PE teacher. Ultimately I got used to playing without a shirt and I grew in confidence, so I guess it worked!

Simon, at my school the PE teacher handed out coloured ‘bibs’ which were similar to the ones with numbers on that are issued to runners taking part in marathons and other races. The bibs covered the upper part of the chest. One team could have yellow bibs and the other team red bibs. It was a good way to distinguish teams. Therefore all lads were stripped to the waist and everyone was always a skin and it was completely fair.

Hi Simon, I happened to be one of three lads in my PE group made to strip every lesson regardless of weather or indoors or out. I really didn't mind. What with also doing boxing stripped off too it certainly toughened me up. Did you enjoy being a skin?

Hi Simon, our mixed school operated an all skins policy. However classes with an odd number wore white shorts, even numbered classes wore black. No need for any boy to wear a vest or top.

Simon, We never wore vests for gym. Teams were distinguished by inch wide sashes of different colours worn over the shoulder.

To Rob, John and Bernard - what method was used to distinguish teams for PE and Games when you were at school? Clearly if every boy was stripped to the waist then you couldn't have played shirts against skins, which was what we did at my school in the 1980s. Although that was an effective system for team sports, it wasn't all that fair in that some boys had to do PE as 'skins' far more often than others.

Rob and John - I found your comments most interesting. I started at Grammar School in 1964 and only ever wore just a pair of shorts for p.e. and games. Things were much simpler in those days and I'm sure we were very happy not being made to wear more.
Most of us were a bit apprehensive about showering naked the first time but we soon got used to it and welcomed the chance to cool down and rinse the sweat off.
I too feel very sorry for today's youngsters, having to wear so much and being denied the luxury of showers afterwards.

Clare.At junior school I wore short trousers and I was looking forward to wearing long trousers at the mixed secondary school.
Uniform was compulsory,but boys were allowed to wear shorts up to any age up to leaving.
After some deliberation by my mother,it was decided I should continue to wear shorts to school,much to my consternation.
I always found the girls were much more attentive and didn't tend to mock or make cruel remarks.

John, it's been interesting to have had a conversation with you. Time to give others a an opportunity!

Rob, my Dad told my brother and I that he only wore shorts and plimsolls for PE and did cross country in winter stripped to the waist. Dad was glad that his sons were getting the same PE kit rules that he’d had.

It’s great that you’ve encouraged your sons to be shirtless like you, they alre of course confident about their bodies because of this. I enjoyed PE immensely and benefitted by being made to strip to the waist and have communal showers. Your sons were lucky that they went to schools like ours, the trend now is to keep children covered up all the time. I would have hated to have to wear a top for PE and not being made to have a shower and get clean afterwards. I think we were treated much better than kids today.

John,I had two younger sisters and there didn't seem to be any pressure on them to get out in the sunshine although they did sit out in the garden whenever I was around in just a pair of shorts. My dad used to join me and take his shirt off when he and I went to the allotment but even though he played football for his firm's team when he was in his twenties before he married, I never saw him wear shorts, although he told me when he was asking me whether I had to strip off for PE,that they had to wear just shorts and plimsolls when he was at school. At one time men rarely wore shorts for leisure and were considered eccentric if they did, but nowadays in the summer it is quite normal for most men and I always wear them whenever possible. It proves that we all get used to anything given the opportunity. Like me, you were initially apprehensive about being naked in the showers, and I too can't understand why some commentators seem to have a problem with their bodies.I am happily married with two sons, who went to a mixed secondary school where they had to strip off for PE and go naked in the showers and because they were accustomed to seeing me stripped off are themselves quite comfortable to follow my example.