Burnley Grammar School

I agree that single sex primary schools were rare although in secondary schools they were common both in the private and state school sectors.

Hi Ben,

Personally I didn't find it embarrassing as I was still totally flat-chested when I left primary school. Also, like many of the girls, I became adept at putting on my PE shorts before removing my skirt!
I think some of the early developers did start to feel self-conscious about their bodies, not helped some of the boys making comments. Did that happen in your school too?

Certainly in earlier years a few pupils of both sexes did PE in their vest and pants if they forgot their PE kit, but I don't recall it happening in the final year.

Andrea, did you or any of the other girls feel embarrassed stripping and changing for PE in front of the boys in class?

Also was there some sort of punishment if you forgot your PE kit, like making you do PE in just underpants which seems to have been common in some schools?

Hi Ben,

A follow up question - had any of the budding girls actually started to wear bras? If so it seems particularly harsh that they had to remove them.
As I said in my previous post, a few of my classmates did start to wear bras during our final year at primary school, but there were others who had small buds but were still wearing vests. Of course this was in the days before cami-tops etc were available as a 'half-way house' between a vest and a bra.

Hi Ben,

I left primary school in 1971. We were allowed to wear T shirts and shorts or pe skirts, but boys and girls had to change in the same classroom (supervised by our teacher).
As you say, some of the girls started to develop budding breasts during the final year at Primary and a few started to wear bras rather than vests. They were normally allowed to change separately in the toilets.

Hi Claire, at least you were all girls and presumably with all female teachers during PE.
In our case it was mixed and with both male and female teachers, depending on who your class teacher was.

I also think that it was rare to have boys only or girls only primary schools, though I coulld be wrong.
Although single sex secondary schools were not that uncommon.

Hi Ben, I attended an all girls school leaving in 1997. We were made to go "bare top" in gym until 11yo when bra's were required by many. I am pretty "flat chested" our gym teacher kept myself and a couple of other girls as skins. I was 15 before requiring a bra.

We did PE in just underpants, both boys and girls, throughout primary school till age 11. Some girls had budding breasts in the last years and some boys were also beginning to develop.
I guess most of us started to feel embarrassed being half naked or almost naked in front of the opposite sex at that age.
We all undressed down to our underpants in class under the supervision of our teacher and were taken for PE exercises.
This was in the early 60s.
I wonder if this is still permitted in any schools.

I attended a co-educational secondary school and was initially embarrassed being barechested in front of girls whilst doing mixed sex PE lessons. It would seem from quite a few posts that lads in early teens have not wanted to have to strip to the waist in the presence of girls. I wish that I had been to a single sex school where I would not have been bothered being stripped to the waist amongst other boys. There is much to be said for single sex education until the age of 16, boys can concentrate on their education without the distraction of girls.

Peter B,

Of course these days the cane is banned so it just couldn't happen but back in the 1960s a headmaster, particularly of a private school had pretty free reign where anything was concerned.

Corporal punishment was overseen by the governors but in reality that meant it was left to the headmaster's discretion unless a parent complained and as you say, a parent then would almost certainly side with the school - mine always did and had I not already had the strap at home, I would have been given it just for getting a caning at school. The governors were all retired ex-military types anyway who no doubt thought the more severe a caning the better - never done them any harm and so on.

The headmaster maintained a list of boys who he saw as rebellious and after the skinhead cut I was on it alongside a few more. It guaranteed you a bare bottom caning if you were sent to him and up to twelve strokes - which I never got though I did get eight a couple of times - surprisingly much worse than six.

I doubt any parent today would use a strap like my father had either - it was about eighteen inches long and two wide and half an inch thick, it really packed a punch and a dozen of it on my bare bottom was the norm. I suspect any father today even giving a couple with it would be arrested.

Is the situation today better? I'm not sure, I look at lads heading for school and the state of them and sometimes think that the threat of a rarely used cane might smarten them up no end.

As many have stated the Bare Chest policy was quite popular amongst many female onlookers. I attended an all boys school. The ladies who worked in the canteen certainly enjoyed extended cigarette breaks while watching the shirtless shenanigans on the pitch!

There are other ways to distinguish teams but none as effective or practical than stripping off. Boys realise that there's no hiding place when you're stripped to the waist. Everyone can see you sweat!

Certainly I noticed especially during the Summer Terms at my mixed Grammar School when we did athletics outdoors many of the girls would gravitate to the boys who were stripped to the waist - nearly all of us - like bees around a honeypot.

Matt, thanks for clarifying that. I think the same split would apply if boys were given the choice, even if only for outdoor PE. But I agree it's fairer for every boy to be treated the same and more logical if indoor PE kit is restricted to shorts (and perhaps footwear) only.

Spot on Matt. Stripping to the waist to exercise also gave the confidence when it came to girls. One girl who later became my wife remembers watching me in the gym and doing numerous laps of the field stripped down. Worked wonders!

Paul

Your comments show how times have changed (whether for the better that is debatable) But to think that these days a headmaster would take a boy into his off ice and make him drop his trousers and cane him in his pants would nowadays be unthinkable. And then on a subsequent occasion to cane a bare backside there would now be a court case.

Was the punishment right? I do know that parents usually upheld the schools authority and if parents found out there was further punishment at home.

When I see and read how pupils behave at school nowadays with no respect for the staff perhaps we should return to single sex schools and bring back corporal punsihment

Thank you, James, for your input. I would suspect that your teachers who stripped to the waist, didn't wear underpants and showered with sixth-formers would be pretty unusual but let's see if there were any more schools like yours.

Simon,when I said that boys should be offered a choice of wearing a shirt or not I meant for outdoor PE. For indoor PE boys should be stripped to the waist and it is much fairer for all boys to be treated the same. Doing PE shirtless helps to develop more confidence regarding body image.

Marc, yes, our PE teachers were always bare chested regardless of where we were, indoors or out. There were three men who taught PE and I never saw them any other way but they obviously did put a shirt on at break time. It was also obvious that they didn't wear underpants either when you might be running behind them or seeing them bend and stretch while demonstrating exercises.

It wasn't either unusual that they joined us in the showers more particularly when we were in the sixth form. We never thought anything of it and nothing untoward ever happened and I don't think I even imagined that it could.

The comments about haircuts are interesting. I remember in the late 60s when skinheads first appeared. Initially masters praised the smart look in comparison to the long hair that was fashionable at the time. I really wanted a skinhead but continued to have a short back and sides, always going to the barber's with my father.

The mood then began to turn as skinheads began to be associated with rebellion and suddenly they were not encouraged. I wasn't rebellious but I still wanted one.

I was off school for a few days unwell and on the last day went to the barber's alone as my father was at work where I asked for and was given a skinhead after the barber was sure I had my father's permission, of course I lied and said I did. Little did I know that while I was off school the headmaster banned skinhead cuts and warned that any boy coming to school from then on would pay a heavy price.

That evening at home my father was more than annoyed and as always my bottom was soundly strapped. Returning to school the next morning, bottom still very sore I met the headmaster on the way in and I thought he was going to have a fit he was so red in the face as he ordered me to his study. My absence from school was not an excuse and my attempt to use that as an excuse was dismissed as insolence in an obviously rebellious boy for who there was only one remedy which of course was six of the very best across my underpants with a warning that any future caning for any reason would be on my bare bottom. The marks lasted for over a week. (Six months later after I truanted one day to watch a rugby game he did keep his promise and it was a whole lot worse bare.)

At least we had PE later during the morning so I certainly had some trophies to be seen changing and in the showers afterwards!

Frank refers to "Mr. Anderson". His classes were stripped to the waist at all times and he observed the policy himself. Did anyone on here have such a teacher?

Indoors we were stripped to the waist for all PE/Games lessons. Outside we were more bare chests than vests. Masters ensured each boy was visibly sweating at the end or laps of the field would come your way, barechested of course.

Matt, I disagree that boys should be given the choice of wearing a shirt for PE. Surely what would then happen is that all the confident boys would choose to do it in skins and the the boys with a hang-up about being shirtless would stay as they were. Which would do nothing to increase their confidence in tne long run. From my own experience I think it's much more effective if boys are just told that they all have to take their shirts off, at least for a set period. As you mentioned earlier it's possible to use different methods of telling teams apart, other than shirts and skins which can seem unfair to some boys.

Obviously doing vigorous PE would make one sweat and that is why indoor PE should be done stripped to the waist.
For outdoors it perhaps it should not be mandatory although it should be encouraged leading to more lads taking vests off and going stripped to the waist.

Jason, I agree with you entirely. Being stripped to the waist for PE is healthy and wearing vests/shirts can be dangerous when using gymn equipment. Boys should at least be able to choose whether they want to wear a shirt or not, many would choose not to wear a shirt if they had the chance to do PE shirtless.

Alex, that's why all boys should strip down. The girls loved to see you stripped to the waist, indoors or out, hairy chests or not we were stripped and on show. I feel today's lads would benefit from being stripped to the waist for all PE. Strangely it's the feminists who want to stop boys becoming men.

Just responding to Andy's post of 22nd(?)December - if you trawl back through the thread you should find that not only did girls not object to seeing boys doing gym topless, some actually relished it, and others would have happily decided which boys would lose their shirts!

Some people have commented that some gym teachers were almost sadistic in their attitudes; others have said that they think some could have been suffering from PTSD as a result of wartime experiences. I don't know and I'm not compretant to judge but to my dying day I'll thank the a certain Geography and substitute Gym teacher who gave 'little me' a love for the High & Wild places of the Earth that has survived over fify years.

Has this thread really been going for ten years? Looks back to see when I made my first posting.

Matt, It was strange that some lads were picked to strip down a lot more than others. You were expected to sweat during PE. All indoors PE should be done stripped to the waist throughout school,outdoors should be a choice, skins, vests or t shirt.

I will have to give you that one Ben thanks for that comment.2018 marks the tenth anniversary of this interesting and diverse website Mr Anderson's article on Physical education came straight from a bona fide master of the subject!Cursed down to April this year '17 To read it.He started teaching the subject in 1968 when I was eight!His experience is written in great detail,thank you for posting it. Sir!I note that the form you fill in to comment is not secure with my security software Kaspersky!But on my tablet McAffee says it's fine.Just one caveat.yes I spotted the typo above cursed and I meant curser but Im keeping it in as a double entendre.Keep contributing Happy New Year to all. F.C.

I find it some what ironic that schools want boys to have short haircuts but complain when they go to extremes with clipper cuts and No 1 cuts.
Having a No 1 is to my mind better than having shoulder length hair and even longer.