Burnley Grammar School

Hi, I note some comments regarding jock straps or Athletic supports to give their proper name. Like many others we only wore white cotton gym shorts and were subject to the " no underwear " rule which was common at the time. When we entered 3rd year around ages 14/15 we were allowed to buy a Litesome support from the school PE dept. Most boys did this. Looking back it was interesting that the rule was based on what year you were in rather than an individual boy's age or requirement for support. Some boys should have been allowed to wear a support much earlier as those shorts offered no support.

Happy to answer any queries .

James

Hi Alf,
Our parents had to buy the swimsuits as part of our uniform.

I went to an all girls secondary school.

James

We all wanted to wear a jockstrap at 13 or 14, just as the older boys were wearing them already. Litesome was the only brand in those days. Most boys possessed two jockstraps, one with and without a pouch (for a box .. i.e. cricket). Very much a coming of age aspect, and although they aren't common today I am still glad to say that I, my sons and grandchildren still wear them for sport.

Ronnie

To answer your questions: I don't think we had any problems with other teachers (90% + were male) watching us.

Did any of the boys feel any embarrassment being nude in front of everyone else during these lessons, especially at the older age? As said we could wear trunks from the senior school onwards. Yes, some of the boys who had turned 13 did start to resent visitors being present when they were naked. All swimming contests with other schools were never in the nude in front of parents and other guests, we wore navy blue speedos (official school colours). Our school was a boys only school.

Hi ,James your experiences with first seeing and then wearing a Litesome jockstrap are very similar to my own I got mine in 1977.

James. I totally agree with your comments about jockstraps. In an earlier email I explained how us boys went to the local sports shop to buy one. Like you we felt very grown up as a result. We continued to wear them for sports even after leaving school and college.I also agree how comfortable they were and cannot understand why they have gone out of fashion. They were much more comfortable than modern sports briefs. Difficult to get now but are still available via the internet.

Andrea, were the swimsuits supplied by the school or had to be bought by the parents as part of the school kit?

And what did the boys wear, if anything? :)

Olderscot,

I heard about the tawse in Scottish schools and how it was used liberally by most teachers, just like you describe.
Incidentally there was a small documentary on BBC radio about it only a week or two ago. It probably can still be found on the BBC Radio documentary site in mp3 form.

It documents how a Scottish mother whose son was belted at school took the case to the European Court of Justice which forced the British Parliament to take a vote against all corporal punishment in British schoools.

Gavin,

Apart from the intructor or coach could anyone else from the school, especially female staff or teachers, watch during your nude swimming lessons?
Did any of the boys feel any embarrassment being nude in front of everyone else during these lessons, especially at the older age?
I read some other old posts here who said that they had swimming galas in the nude in front of parents and other guests.

I assume that yours was either a boys only school or the boys and girls had separate swimming classes.
I also find it strange, or maybe justified for some reasons, that only boys were not allowed to wear anything for swimming classes, but not for girls.

Presumably the schools which had nude swimming had their own pools?

We had swimming lessons for a couple of years at Secondary school, but these were at a local council owned pool. We had to wear regulation navy blue one piece swimsuits.

Going back to previous conversations,
Yes I was at Grammar school in the late 60's. I have mentioned before that it was suggested that if we were "uncomfortable' we should get a jockstrap. At that point I didn't really know what one was, but I saw an older boy putting one on in the changing rooms before his shorts and I put two and two together. I thought that it must feel weird, but I had to find out.
I went to the local sports shop and came out with a Litesome, like so many others here. It did feel strange but very comfortable, if a bit draughty!
Quite a few friends went on to get them as it was like the next step to being 'grown up".
I can't understand why they are not so popular now as, for me, they were more comfortable than any other underwear, support and freedom all at once.

I know that now it is many years since senior schools were all boys schools but does anyone recall how they felt the first time they were in a swimming lesson with everyone naked. Especially if the first time it was experienced was in the secondary or senior school.

Ronnie
English independent school (1965 - 1976 ) we swam without trunks from 7 to 13/14 and then trunks were allowed

Ronnie,
I attended a boys only secondary school in Scotland from 1965-1972.
In response to your questions , there was no nude swimming in the school pool . We wore swimming briefs in the school colours . However, if a boy had forgotten his swimming kit then he would be expected to do without. Very few ever did!
Being in Scotland the teachers , almost without exception, had a tawse ( always known as "the belt") in their desk drawer. This was used regularly and few boys would have left school with having had their hands belted. In most cases a boy would receive one or two strokes on each hand but some teachers gave three on each hand as a matter of course. The belts were either marked "H" for heavy or "XH" for extra heavy. Most teachers seemed to use a H with two tails but some had two belts, using the XH on older boys. In all cases the punishment was given in front of the class. Hope that this gives you some idea of what the arrangements were back then.

Sterling, I have read about the imposed custom of nude swimming in US schools. But the difference with British schools seems to have been that while in US schools the nude swimming started in high school at about age 13 or 14, in British schools it started at a much younger age and contrary to US schools it usually stopped at 13 or 14 at which age the boys were allowed to wear trunks, though not in all schools where they had this practice.

I wonder if there are any readers here who had this practice and tradition at their school.

Ronnie, I have heard of Nude Swimming in some British Boarding School's but nothing like the scale of its practice in some parts of the US.

As for Corporal Punishment I attended a School where each Master had his own particular weapon of mass destruction.
But it kept us on our toes!

Since this subject seems to be exhausted would it not be more interesting if we talked about corporal punishment and nude swimming when we were at school?

I also remember those old toilets we had at school, especially in primary, which were doorless where us boys had no privacy.
There were even some schools which had open urinals in the school yard which boys could use while playing. Not at our school but one could see these urinals stuck to the schoolyard wall when passing by in the street. I wonder if some schools still have them, though not likely today.

Like Jake when in sixth form most lads did PE (and cross-country) while stripped to the waist even though it was not compulsory.

When I was at school in the late fifties all the boys wore vests under their school shirts and we were told before the start of the first PE lesson to go to the changing room and take everything off including our socks and underpants and to come back into the gym wearing just shorts and plimsolls.On the way,we were talking and some of the boys said about whether we were allowed to wear Tshirts which had been on the uniform list and we said 'no, just shorts and plimsolls'. So,we certainly weren't allowed to keep our vests on and as to T.shirts; we never ever wore them. We were always stripped to the waist, and able to sweat freely and then shower together afterwards and so become more confident about ourselves. All boys today should be able to continue to share that experience.
When I started a job in 1962, I realised that none of my young male colleagues wore vests under their shirts, so I ditched mine and have never worn one since.

It is strange that there weren't standard rules about these things, even within the same school. I had one PE teacher who let us wear t-shirts (and even an extra sweatshirt outdoors!). Then the next year we had a different teacher, his view was that we needed toughening up and made us all do it stripped to the waist. In the sixth form things were more relaxed and we were given the choice, but most boys opted to wear just shorts and no top.

Was it to make you look tough? Some teachers did like to do that. You're right about the variations between schools, shirts vs skins, vests vs skins, skins vs skins. Quite funny really

It's strange each school did different things. I was on the x country team and when competing we always ran in skins. Some teachers would make their team strip while others wouldn't..

I agree with Gavin and when I was at school as most boys didn't wear vests although the uniform rules for PE stipulated singlets obviously not having vests they boys went stripped to the waist.
Nothing was said and it soon became normal for all boys to be STTW for both indoor and outdoor PE.

Jason, hardly any of the kids that I went to school with wore vests and those boys would not have wanted to wear a vest or T shirt for PE. It was a good idea at your school for classes to wear different coloured shorts thereby enabling team games where all lads can stay stripped to the waist. Shirts vs skins can be bad for less confident kids, if all boys are shirtless it is fairer and all boys will get used to it and gain confidence in their bodies.

Think it was easier having everyone stripped down. We wore either black or white shorts depending on which class we were in. Those who did wear a vest under their school shirts simply peeled off and hung them on their peg.

Replying to Gavin;

I think the Teacher was trying to follow PE Uniform policy but he was ex-Army and also a Serving Police Sargeant so I think secretly he would have had us all stripped to the waist if he had - had any input into the Policy. The
Teacher was often Stripped To The Waist as well.
Quite a few of us preferred being STTW and would go to any lengths, from just asking if we could strip off, to deliberately being last into the Gym so we could take our tops off and Run the Gauntlet.

Doing that, we had to run between two lines of lads (up to about 15 in each line) who would slap us on the back as we passed them. We weren't supposed to stop and fight any of the lads in the Lines but sometimes we did,We used that to get even if we owed them one for something.
Occasionally that would descend into a scuffle between more lads and the Teacher would have to separate us.

John, having enjoyed the freedom and comfort of being stripped to the waist for secondary school PE, I cannot understand why your teacher thought that it was a punishment making the last 2 lads to emerge from the changing room take their tops off. Most lads would have hated being made to wear a T shirt or vest for indoor PE, having a hot sweaty shirt sticking to your back is really uncomfortable and unnecessary.

Reply to Andy K1;

Our kit was nominally White Tee Shirt, white shorts and Plimmies (Plimsolls)
At the start of every lesson the last 2 lads to get Changed into Kit and into the Gym were made to take their Tops off and 'Run the Gauntlet' of the rest of the class - usually around 30 Lads.
After this they stayed Topless for the rest of the lesson, and some lads were allowed to take their tops off if they wanted to -and if the Gym Master would let them.
If we played team games eg Killerball (a kind of indoor Rugby but with fewer rules and played with a Medcine Ball of a random weight chosen by the Teacher), then we played 'Skins vs. Vests').

We didn't wrestle every week, but as I said, we were always told in advance if it was, and told to wear our Swim-briefs.

Hi John, thanks for your comment about wrestling. It made me wonder if you wore shirts in the gym, with everyone going to skins and why did you need notice to fight. PE was always done stripped to the waist and by the end of session we were visibly sweating.

I wish that boxing had been part of the Physical Education curriculum at my secondary school. I needed toughening up and lads need to learn self defence.