Burnley Grammar School

We had to wear a jockstrap for all sporting activity at my school.

Sam - that is encouraging though I expect a more traditional approach like that is very rare now. I expect your school also had a better than average work ethic and a generally high standard of discipline too. I was a bit surprised to see that you had to wear plimsolls or trainers inside - I thought bare feet inside was a traditional aspect that was more common now than boys being shirtless.

Rob - I think our lessons were fun partly due to the strictness of our teachers and being worked hard and partly due to our lack of kit. I also have fond memories of playing outdoor volleyball and going on cross country runs with the sun shining on my bare back and shoulders - happy days!

Rob, you'll be pleased to know there are still some schools that take a more traditional approach to boys' PE. I left a couple of years ago and at the private school I attended we were required to do PE lessons in black shorts and plimsolls or trainers. Gym socks could also be worn but no tops of any description. We were expected to work hard on our fitness and the discipline was fairly strict. Outdoors we were allowed to wear a football jersey but sometimes team games were played with a 'shirts against skins' system. For athletics and cross country we wore a vest in the school colours but again, for house competitions, the boys on one team would be instructed to remove their vests and run as skins. All this was compulsory, as were showers after all PE for which we had to strip completely.

Dominic,you're so right about our PE kit. Boys today should have to strip off like us and wear just a pair of gym shorts and nothing else. I thoroughly enjoyed PE in the gym when our master was strict and worked us hard, but it was a great feeling getting really hot and running with sweat and we certainly didn't need to be wearing anything else,and we looked forward to the showers afterwards.It was also a pleasure, and healthier, running outside in the fresh air
in just shorts.

Paul,I agree that things have moved on,but from my school experiences am also comfortable about my body. My wife and I went on a cruise recently,and I have in the past used the male sauna and steamroom,but was surprised at how many guys now wore shorts, even in the showers.I would find this most uncomfortable, and for goodness sake we were all men, and I continued with the minority to be naked. Also, as you mentioned in an earlier comment that even now you don't wear pants under your shorts at the gym, I still like to wear nothing under mine when I am working in the garden at home in the summer and am also usually stripped to the waist. Unfortunately, many guys will not be behaving in this manner when they get older but I see nothing wrong in enjoying the sun and fresh air and gaining the health benefits from being outside. We learned at school not to be ashamed of our bodies, and although times have moved on, I continue to remember this and instilled this in our two sons who often thank me as they didn't learn this in their PE lessons.

Paul - you are right about different values. Times change - sometimes for the better; sometimes for worse. I feel the "old fashioned" p.e. kit I wore, as did so many others, it seems, was far more practical in various ways and think it is sad that boys have to cover up so much these days.
I think nude swimming for males of all ages was not all that uncommon though mainly in America in the YMCA pools. I can't imagine any-one damaging themselves by diving into a pool naked.
My p.e. masters were strict but also made their lessons enjoyable - again no "power trip" as far as I can remember. Most of us thoroughly enjoyed p.e. - it came as a welcome change from being sat in uniform in stuffy classrooms.

Mark on 20th June 2016

Things have moved on a great deal since I was a boy at school and applying the values of now in judgement of times past is in my view a foolish road to take. Just as murderers are no longer sentenced to hang I doubt boys at school swim naked but that doesn't mean it was bad or wrong then, just that values were different. I'm glad I'm comfortable with my body whether it's clothed or naked, something I doubt many lads of today are. If I need to I can change in the changing room at the gym or if the doctor requires drop my trousers and underpants without having a panic attack.

I don't ever remember feeling that masters were on a 'power trip' as you choose to put it. Almost all were excellent teachers and I was very happy at school. Had there been any sense of abuse I doubt that would have been the case but I look back on it as a very positive time of my life.

To make boys do swimming well into puebity seem highly irresponsible and I have never heard of this. Boys diving into the pool with their crotch unprotected could be painful and damaging. Also by the mid teens most boys hormones are rampant and they are liable to have visible reactions to being naked etc.
I am not saying it didnt happen but in my opinion its irresponsible and serves no practical purpose whatsoever.
I do know from experience that there were teachers who definitely enjoyed their power trip they held over children(especially boys) and some teachers did enjoy punishing them. In my time at school I did encounter teachers who enforced the most extreme punishments that only served to humiliate and bully the unfortunate recipients.

I have only just found this site and thought I would offer my own experiences starting as a 9yr old at a school in a rural part of North east England in the late 80's. The school's official kit was a pale blue vest, black shorts, and trainers. When we'd changed for the first lesson and had been taken into the gym for the first time our teacher quickly picked a boy at ramdom and told him to run and drop his vest on the bench at the bottom end of the gym. When returned to the group the teacher picked half the class, which included me, to do the same. From then on all our PE and Games lessons had a skins team. Myself and others who found themselves to be good at sports were always hand picked to strip off, regardless of weather or activity. School inter house competitions were done in a similar way, with one team in vests, the other in skins this included Cross Country. For other events like basketball, at half time the teams were reversed, with the vests becoming skins and vice versa. This was okay if you'd had a vest on for the first half but not the other way round and it wasn't long before they were seen sticking to their owner's back/chest. We always joked that this was done so the girls could see lads from both houses strip off. When I turned 10 mainly to stand up for myself, my parents took me to learn to box. When we did fight both lads were expected by family and the club to fight bare top during your bout. Funny, from then on no one bullied me again!

Willy, the school pool had no possibility of having spectators around it. There were only the edge walkways which were about two metres wide and then the walls. The only way in was through the changing room. Occasionally a couple of fathers would be present on a Saturday morning but I can't remember mothers ever being present. Swimming was now something that we competed at and was only for fitness and personal safety.

No trunks applied throughout the school from seven to eighteen and I never saw a lad of any age in the pool wearing anything. I don't think nudity put us off, it was a popular lunchtime activity when it was totally optional. The water was always freezing but as you did back then, we just got on with it.

Andrew, was the experience of joining the Merchant Navy any more dignified than the Royal Navy? You certainly wouldn't be embarrassed after your Royal Navy experience - probably ever again!

Mark As I said previously that a distinction was made between boys and girls in what they wore in pe. Although the class did it as a mixed group, and no one considered it unusual for boys not to be doing pe in underwear when the girls did. As you say, to think that for a punishment boys would be made to walk round in their underpants all day for forgetting their shorts would have the politically correct brigade going off the radar. also I agree if you were punished at school the parents supported the teacher and you must have deserved it.

At secondary school the 2 methods of punishment were cane or after school detention. Some teachers gave the lads the option of which punishment they wanted. Quite a few opted for the cane. It was quick over and done with and as you say you got on with it and parents need not know. As far as I recall the cane was only given on the hand. i do not recollect any one having to "bend over" The only exception was the sadistic PE teacher who would administer the slipper using the offenders own plimsoll across a tight backside on thin shorts and no pants for padding.

Whereas with after school detention they would know you were being kept behind and so when you got home you got a further punishment for being naughty at school.

We just got on with life and as you say no screaming Human Rights.

Hi Willy,
Your primary school PE arrangements sound similar to mine in the late 1960s / early 1970s.

Our school didn't have a gym but used to do 'music and movement' in the school hall. Most other PE activities took place in the school playground, or on a small grassed area if it was dry enough. I think the boys were sometimes taken to a local park pitch for football, but we girls did rounders and netball in the playground.

Our PE kit sounds similar to yours - T shirt, shorts or a PE skirt (girls could wear either)and plimsolls. Like one of the others posters our mums were supposed to make a drawstring bag (with our names embroidered on) to carry our PE kit in.

The school didn't have separate changing facilities either, we just changed into our PE kit in the classroom, boys on one side and girls on the other. By the end of our time at Primary we girls became pretty adept at pulling on our PE shorts or skirts before we removed our normal school skirt or dress! In the final year a few of my classmates who had started to wear bras rather than vests were allowed to change in the girls toilets to preserve their modesty.

Willy, I went to an all boys grammar school in the late 50's and they used to refer to the first three years as middle school and after that we were seniors.In primary school, in the early 50's we had no gym but did some simple exercises in the school hall while the radio was turned to a programme called 'Music & Movement'. In the final two years the boys went with a male teacher to the local park where we kicked a football around. I can't remember what the girls did, but in both the hall and park we never had any special kit but simply ran around in our school clothes.Remember at that time all boys wore grey shorts, which many of us wore until our mid teens.We did all wear uniform ties to school.When I went to grammar school everyone had to wear the correct uniform of blazer, tie, pullover, white or grey shirt and black lace up shoes.It was a real change for me when we had PE, which was twice a week, and for the first time I had to get changed out of my school uniform, and take my vest off, which all boys wore,into just a pair of gym shorts with nothing on underneath & plimsolls with no socks, and stripped to the waist, both in the gym and outside, including cross country runs.For football we wore a shirt,boots and long socks,but were forbidden from wearing anything under our shorts. After all PE and football lessons we had to get our kit off and go into the customary showers together.

Willy, I was at infant/ middle to 11 or 12, i cant remember precisely. The LEA changed over from the 11plus system and we did an extra year at infant/middle.
We had to wear a uniform and boys wore grey shorts all they way through until we left.
We didnt have a gym and rarely did PE outside. We didn't have PE kit as such. Boys did it in underpants and girls in pants and vest. We were always bare foot.
It was a church school and very strict. We had to change into plimsolls when we entered the building as outdoor shoes were not allowed. Our mums had to make a "slipper bag" for us. This was for our plimsolls(slippers) If we forgot them got tanned and then we went bare foot all day.
In winter when it snowed boys could wear long trousers to school but had to change to shorts once there. If anyone forgot them then they got a tanning and had to go around all day in their underpants
Can you imagine the outcry today if this happened? parents always took the teachers side. If I went home and told mum that someone had got in to trouble and punished she would say that he/she must have deserved.
When we did get punished, we took it and moved on. Nobody bleated about abuse and human rights. We just got on with it

With reference to primary school I recall that all boys wore grey shorts ( which were very short not like today) all the year round. For pe we simply removed our shirt and did the lesson in shorts and singlets which all boys wore. Those days the girls wore skirts for uniform because " girls just did not wear trousers" so for pe they simply removed their skirts and did the lesson in their regulation navy blue underwear and vest. We did not think it odd. That was just how it was. The politically correct people would go mad if that was suggested these days. After all it seems nearly all girls in junior school wear long trousers as do the boys. Occasionally you see a boy in junior school wearing shorts.

Hi Mark, up to what age was middle school? I only remember there being primary and secondary schools back in my scholdays in the 50s and 60s.
In primary, up to age 11, we did PE mostly in the large schoolyard. We had no gym in primary. I wonder how many primary schools had a gym back then. Maybe other posters can relate.
Our primary school PE consisted of simple physical exercises or occasionally games like football and the like. Our class teacher simply acted as a coach. It was different in secondary of course.
Besides just underpants did you also have to go barefoot or did you wear PE slippers?
I remember on PE days, which was once or twice a week from what I remember, we had to take our PE kit to school, which consisted of white vest and shorts and slippers. Some boys and girls never bothered to carry them since they came dressed in just their PE kit on PE days, with maybe just a woollen top if it was cold. It was a different era.
In Secondary it was different because we had to wear a school uniform, with tie and all.

Gosh, Andrew, that beats all comments written here, and certainly an experience that all thirty of you will never forget.Thank you for sharing this with us.We all thought we had something to tell, but your account beats everything.

I think there is mileage in the idea of no underpants and communal showers getting us ready for the military. Both were the norm through my school years.

I went on to join the Merchant Navy but not before I had an interview to be an Officer Cadet with the Royal Navy. The selection lasted three days and there were thirty of us in the group. There was absolutely no privacy at any time while we were there.

The information sent out talked about tests and practical exercises and told us everything would be provided, we only needed to bring a change of clothes.

Some of the stuff was in a classroom doing formal exams, some was discussions mostly about naval tactics but there were a few rogue topics thrown in too. A lot of the stuff was field exercise where we were in groups and had to complete tasks and there was also a certain amount of what you might call PE, circuit training and similar testing out our fitness. The only attire we were provided with for anything to do with fitness was plimsols and white cotton shorts.

We were accommodated in a thirty bedded dormitory with no privacy at all, off it was a washroom that had communal showers and basins as well as toilets that had no partitions, I think I'd expected the communal showers, the toilets were a shock but there was no choice but to get on with it.

There was also a medical, I expected something like I was used to at school but again, it was done with no privacy at all. We were ordered into a big hall and ordered to strip, one or two who were dilatory were told strip included underpants. Then we had to line up side by side with our hands clasped behind our necks. Four doctors worked the line each with an orderly who made notes.

There was almost no communication from them bar commands like 'open wide' as they wanted to look in your mouth and of course 'cough.' Just as I thought it was over we were ordered to bend over and touch our knees with our elbows, I really had no idea why. An orderly worked the front of the line and a doctor the back but bent over you couldn't see anything so what came next was a complete surprise.

I was just aware of the orderly pressing down on my neck saying something like 'bend tighter lad.' There was no choice given his strength and the pressure he was applying and I can remember my hamstrings burning momentarily before I was shocked to feel hands spreading my buttocks and then mortified to experience my first rectal examination which afterwards I learned was a first and a shock for everyone.

In terms of preparation for WW3, that experience certainly did desensitise us from any sense of personal privacy.

Hi Willy, yes we did pe at infant and middle in our underwear. We got changed in the classroom and boys stripped to underpants and stripped to pants and vest. Maybe the worst part was when we had to fike down the long corridor to the hall. It was cold, the floors were freezing and all the other classrooms had Windows so we could be seen all the way down.

Paul I understand your logic. My era at school was also the "cold war" era and I suppose also that the majority of teachers had either served in the war or been part of National Service and as they had been used to living in barracks and undressing in front of each other along with communal showers, they would expect it to be the norm for the next generation.

This has died out now that the services are staffed by people who chose it as a career. Also with the advent of Political correctness it would be unheard off to expect lads to remove pants for pe and to go bare chested

Paul, Did the no trunks rule for swimming at your school apply to all boys?
I had some friends who also went to a private school where the no trunks rule only applied to boys up to 12 years old. After that age they could wear trunks.
Did you also have to be nude for swimming galas in front of spectators? I read somewhere that this was the case in some schools, though mostly for junior boys only. I can't imagine teenage boys swimming nude in front of mixed spectators, even though they be just parents and relatives.

On the subject of PE, it also seems to have been common in many primary schools for both boys and girls to do PE in just underpants only, though not at my school. I wonder if there are any readers here who had this rule at their school.
We did change in class though, both boys and girls, into our PE kit which was white shorts and vest.
In Secondary it was different because we had a gym with changing room and it was an all boys school.

Dennis - not sure why we had no trunks for swimming, like everything else in those days we accepted it and got on with life - it was a lot more simple then and for me at least did me no harm.

Someone once hypothesised to me that in those days we were all being prepared for world war three and one thing we would need to be was not shy in front of other men so we were aclimatised at an early age to taking off underpants and communal showers. It makes sense I think. Fortunately there was no WW3 but I do think a lot of lads these days could do with being a bit more relaxed about another guy seeing them naked, it's harmless.

As for a student teacher punishing lads, I can't believe that was ever allowed. I saw a few over time and none ever administered more than a reprimand. They may report you to the relevant master who may well administer a sore bottom but they never did it themselves.

I also experienced the practice of kit inspection that involved bending over in white shorts - which were very thin and anyone wearing underpants would have been caught immediately. We were probably ordered to turn round and bend over at more than 50% of lessons so it wasn't worth the risk. The minimum consequence was six with the strap or four of the cane always on the bare bottom which was a high price for wearing underpants.

Rob. That ties in with why the student teacher that Dennis had was not seen again. A student teacher would not be authorised to administer corporal punishment. 1

I have mentioned this before, but as the subject has come up again..
I was at school in the mid 60's. We also were told to wear nothing under our nylon shorts for PE or thicker shorts for rugby. Once we began to reach the age when this was a little uncomfortable/embarrassing the PE teacher told us that if we needed to be more comfortable, we should wear a jockstrap. Some of us had seen older boys wearing them in the changing rooms so it seemed to be a sort of step towards being grown up. I could never have brought this up in conversation with my non sporty parents for fear of getting into some sort of embarrassing discussion, perhaps having to explain what one was. The PE department had jockstraps for sale along with other bits of kit so I used some of my lunch money to buy one. I couldnt wait to try it out and the main thing I remember is that unlike other underwear, it did nothing to protect against cold draughts! The other thing was that if we got wet whilst out cross country running, the shorts became almost transparent and the jockstraps were more than obvious. I can remember a few of us embarrassing one classmate by pointing out how how much he was showing because he wasnt wearing any support. I didn't take mine home for washing. We often went through the showers still in shorts and jockstraps and straight into the swimming pool. This usually seemed to be lunchtime or after school. My jockstrap hung in my locker to dry till next time and everything else went home for washing.

Matthew, I don't recall seeing our student teacher again.

To Dennis. I wonder if a student teacher would be authorised to administer corporal punishment. I'm inclined to think not and that may well have been the reason that this individual was not seen again.

Dennis, I Don't know if any other gym classes were inspected that time; we may have been the only only one to have been selected.It was the only one I was ever in, and just my luck! We did have random kit inspections by our teacher who would line us all up in the changing room after we had got changed for a lesson and tell us to pull one side of the waist of our shorts out and down to show that we were not wearing pants. Fortunately no-one ever was, but on one occasion we had a student teacher for one lesson and he caught a boy wearing pants. He made him stand in the middle of the gym and told us all to stand round him in a circle, then told him to take off his plimsolls and then his shorts and pants. He then had to bend over and touch his toes and the student teacher whacked him six times with one of his plimsolls on his bare bottom. He was then sent off and made to stand under a cold shower for the rest of the lesson.

I was called away before I could finish my last message. I wanted to respond to Rob & Mark.
We did not have an inspector at our class, but most of the exercises were as Rob detailed. The teacher would be walking around and I suppose he may have been checking for underwear. One lesson a student teacher made us all bend over & I think his idea was to see if we were wearing pants which would have been visible through our white shorts. The next time he took a lesson he lined us up and pulled out the back of our shorts to see if we were wearing anything. unfortunately, for one boy he was and as Mark reports that lad paid the price with a sore behind. After removing the offending clothing. The student did threaten that next time (if there was a next time) the boys either side of any offender in the line up would also get the slipper. That student never came back to our school despite the fact we were told he would be visiting several times during the term.

However, what ever the rights and wrongs of those days and the strict discipline, we did not seem to care and I am sure
that we were not as inhibited as the youngsters seem to be today.

As Rob says that was how it was at that time.

Paul I attended an all boys school and like you there was a no underwear rule and no tops. After the first time we just got on with it.

Our swimming lessons were at a public swimming pool (closed session for the school)but we wore swimming trunks(the briefs type) I have read quite a few comments about swimming without trunks and I wondered why this was.


I understand your comments re the Gym. I used to Gym/Swimming pool where the showers were in cubicles,but the main male changing area was communal and as you say fellows would chat as they changed. The only time I felt uneasy was a few times a teenage lad would come in and start changing and my child protection training came to mind. There was never a problem and sometimes if a lad came in who was bashful would go into the shower cubicle in his pants and reappear in his trunks.

?The problem now is that I go to a pool where it is a changing "Village" IE mixed sex and I have to remember to keep in the cubicles for changing

Thanks to all who have taken up my post.
I was interested to read them all and truly amazed that there was only one account of boys being advised to wear support for pe/games.
Not only at my school, but at many others, wearing swimming trunks as underwear for sports was quite normal. Thank you again to all those who have posted.

At my school in the 1960s you did indoor PE stripped to the waist and barefoot.
For cross-country again you were stripped to the waist and although you were allowed to wear plimsolls a few boys were barefoot as well.