Burnley Grammar School

During my time at secondary school up to 1966 when we when all our class were 16 years old there was never any mention of Jockstraps & we were not told to buy them. Consequently everything hung loose during PE & games & no boxes for Cricket either & we survived

BTW: in addition to my other comments, Shears Green Junior School in Kent is still going strong and STILL has the same indoor swimming pool! (I saw the photo, how many memories it brings back!) They have a very nice website for the school these days, however boys and girls doing swimming lessons completely naked and everyone doing PE and country dancing 'topless' with none of us (including the girls) allowed to wear anything except a single very thin pair of shorts, is unfortunately very much a thing of the past having died out in the late 1980's or the early 90's when Mr Hale retired as Headteacher! Bit sad really!

Further to my comments below, I have found another facebook site dedicated to Shears Green Junior School, again there are many, many memories of the mixed nude swimming that many of us from 7 to 11½ took part in, most people comment (looking back as adults) that it was rather dodgy and a little bit 'strange' but I think this is looking at it from the perspective of 2013, at the time all of us who took part every week thoroughly enjoyed it. From memory I think we only needed our parents permission for the 'mixed' nude swimming on Wednesdays and Saturdays and judging by the numbers that used to take part, most parents were surprisingly unconcerned about the idea of naked boys and girls playing together at school! I'm pretty sure we didn't need our parents permission to swim nude when it was the 'just boys' or 'just girls' swimming lessons, and while it was never compulsory, everyone was strongly encouraged to take part in nude swimming. https://www.facebook.com/groups/445297598902917/

Scotslad, Gary, Michael and others.
I noticed your comments.
For sure everyday underpants were not allowed for sports because of the hygiene factor. We were all encouraged to wear our swimming trunks for support, especially when we first got selected for the rugby team. A Litesome jock strap was usually the preserve of cricketers or older boys.
Of course we only had one pair of trunks or one jock so these often remained at school during the week as they might be needed several days running. This made a bit of a nonsense of the thoughts about hygiene!

I'm thinking back, Scotslad. I think we were told on our first day that we couldn't wear any of our uniform for sport and that included socks and pants. The reason was to avoid sweating in them and having to put them on again afterwards so it made sense. Certainly the games master used to come through the changing room and keep an eye on us changing but I don't remember anyone not obeying the rule so I don't think there were actual checks. Canings weren't public - you had to line up outside the headmaster's office and then go in individually. He had a gym horse which you bent over. You always had to bare your arse though which would be questionable nowadays but I don't think there was any funny business. It was so you couldn't put any padding down your pants. He did use to stripe us and it stung. I don't know about other schools.

There were a couple of schools outfitters where you bought all uniform and sportswear. The jockstraps were Litesomes - that was the only brand I remember in those days and all the footballers used to wear them so it was a bit of a right of passage to start wearing one. Me and a friend went in to buy a couple when we were 14 and felt like proper men the first time we put them on. My grandsons had never seen one. Times change don't they.

I was at Shears Green Primary School in Kent (southern UK) from 1979. Our school was a normal local primary school with just over 400 children from 7 to 11½ years old. PE and country dancing lessons were always mixed but we were only allowed to wear one item of clothing, thin cotton shorts for the boys and knickers for the girls, we ALL had to do the lessons barefoot and topless (even the girls!) although girls who had started to 'develop' could request permission to wear a t-shirt. However the school was MOST famous (infamous?) for it's dinnertime nude swimming lessons in the schools indoor pool, this went on from the late 1960's to the mid 1980's and was girls nude swimming on mondays, boys on fridays and MIXED on wednesdays, I seem to remember there was mixed nude swimming on saturday mornings as well. Normal swimming lessons were done in swimwear, these nude sessions were voluntary and you needed your parents to sign a permission slip, but astonishingly a very large number of kids took part, I always went to the boys nude swimming and MOST of the boys and girls in my class also went on wednesdays to the mixed nude sessions when the pool was crowded with naked 7 to 11 year olds! This would NEVER be allowed today, and frankly sound pretty unbelievable, but it DID happen and we didn't think anything of it and even more amazing was that most parents were quite happy to give us written permission to run around naked at school with other boys and girls! see these facebook or Friends Reunited links. https://www.facebook.com/groups/2232710443/ http://www.friendsreunited.com/shears-green-county-junior-school/Discuss/9b5c582f-4f9b-40f0-9be8-8695265ccc0c

Thanks,Gary for your input. Can I ask, were there ever "underpant checks"? If so, how was this done? We're the canines given in private or in front of gym class? A friend of mine went to school in Newcastle area but the tawse was used in his school. Was it only in a private or boys only school that the cane was used?
We had to buy our Litesome jock straps from the PE dept. Was it same with you. I still remember my first purchase. Thanks.

Interesting reminiscences. I was at a boys school in Newcastle on Tyne in the 1960s and we had many of the same rules. For games and PE you couldnt wear the same underwear as you wore under your clothes. Once we were in our teens boys started wearing jockstraps but the younger boys just went commando. Football was often skins vs shirts so the vests came off no matter how cold it was. Showers were compulsory after sport - communal and naked. We had an indoor pool and swimming was always naked although the teachers were men so it wasn't that we were being watched by women. We never thought anything of it even by the time we were 18. Happy days to be honest apart from the bare arsed caning! The boys today seem a lot more concerned about being seen wihout clothes than we ever were.

I had no problems about going stripped to the waist for PE but being barefoot was a different matter.

Having read the recent comments and as pupil in the 60's I agree that no one seemed bothered those days about the no pants rule and bare tops or School teachers walking through the changing rooms as we were changing. Nowadays a teacher doing that would be answering to the authorities.
I would be interested to know what is De Rigeur these days.
I expect that any exposure of flesh is frowned upon even though I assume that PE or whatever it is called is held separately for boys & girls.

As I say as a pupil of the "old school" system boys only, I think it was better because since Co- Education boys have got softer & are influenced by the girls. Have the boys lost their machoism?

We had a swimming pool at school and if you forgot your Speedos then you were told to do without. I only ever forgot mine once!

Anyone experienced nude swimming at school in the UK?

i attended a boy's only secondary school in Scotland from 1965-71. We were only allowed to wear white cotton shorts for pe, no top or underwear. In the early years there were checks made to ensure the rule was applied. I cannot recall anyone being caught as frankly it would have just been stupid to try. We had a swimming pool at the school and in later years were allowed to wear swimming speedos in school colours under our shorts for support. Some boys wore the Litesome jock straps which were popular then.

The normal punishment for any crime was "the belt" ( more properly called the tawse, but always known as the belt). It was used regularly by teachers with, in many cases, significant force.

This may all sound a bit weird from the perspective of 2013 but I can assure you it was just treated as life by us back then and not given much thought.

In the 60's/70's I think the vast majority of schools had a “no underpants” rule for PE/cross country/sports.

How strictly this was enforced I don't know, but at my school it just another rule that you didn't break, because of the consequences.

Additionally we always had to strip to the waist, so it would have been obvious you had pants on, because the waist band would have shown above your shorts. Again the majority of schools made boys go shirtless, so this would have applied in a lot of cases.

Just come accross this thread and thought I would add my two-penn`rth.
The gymn at my small prep school was little more than a wooden shed with a very splintery floor and practically no equipment at all, Apart from cricket,all games and PE were done in footbal/rugby kit. It was all rather grim, but we just put up with it - there was no use complaining and I am still around today, so it can`t have done us much harm.
I left there in 1967 at age 13 and went to a much larger school and that had a gymn much as we see in the photo above, I think it had been built a year or two before. Although these lads look a bit younger we used identical kit.
A great deal of talk here has been on the matter of chastisement. At prep school, the gymn-shoe was the weapon of choice and this was used very enthusiastically and when I moved on, the cane was still in use, but was gradually on the way out, but not before I had had my share! Quite honestly I don`t remember any of that being a problem, again it was just how it was
Another topic much discussed here along with some horror stories is the matter of underwear or lack of it. At prep school it was nothing at all, I think it was just custom, I don`t remember it as a rule and there were certainly no "inspections". After age 13 or so we soon all acquired a jockstrap,mostly the old Litesome cotton one. it was a kind of rite of passage thing I suppose. Again I don`t think there was a rule as such, it was just custom.

In reply to Sam's message,we too were stipped to the waist,wearing only our shorts with nothing underneath.This rule was rigoursly enforced and could lead to embarrassment and consternation,especially wnen our games and gymnastic lessons were shared with the girls.On one such occassion one boy decided to pull my shorts right down much to his amusement.

Sam
I was also at Secondary school in the 1960's. Like you our PE was done stripped to the waist, but were you like us without underwear, and was it an all boys school?

In the 1960's at my school we did all our PE stripped to the waist.
When we did cross-country many lads went barefoot as well.

@Adam - No need to apologize! Life is made too complicated now!

To Tim H perhaps I should have said "politically correct rather than "left-wing."

Just a few comments - to Adam I agree with pretty much everything you say but would leave out the word 'left-wing'.

To Michael - we weren't a particularly 'sporty' Grammar school and I can't recall jockstraps being required or underwear being prohibited, but by the end of the 1st year it was being suggested by teachers that we wore swimming trunks for 'support' if we wanted.

Back in September, a fine day, chatting to a lady in the gym car park. We commented on the weather allowed us to go to the gym, and home, in lightweight gear. Then we started talking about wearing shorts and about how many men wore them as a natural thing nowadays, followed by a comment as to how the shorts got shorter & shorter as the summer went on! The lady then made, what to me, was a telling comment. She said 'its been nice to see lads playing in the park these fine summer days - just in shorts - so much more natural'.

I can see that following the negative comments from my last blog that men are often their own worst enemies. This is not a matter of being left wing but supporting gender justice and a right to privacy that we as adults take for granted.

Women feminists have been very effective at getting laws passed that end sex discrimination and promote equal pay. Whereas males tend to "put up & shut up" or even actively support the status quo.

Most of the gender inequality I experienced in pe was at the hands of male pe teachers in secondary school rather than the female teachers in primary school.

Unfortunately, we still have this attitude in Britain that males should be treated like Army recruits for the British empire rather than potential adults with individual needs.

There are still schools in the Uk that mandate showers for boys but forbid them for girls.

http://www.ashmoleacademy.org/page/?pid=31

Boys' PE Clothing

Ashmole Rugby Shirt (Navy with sky blue side panels)
Ashmole Royal Blue Polo Shirt
Ashmole Navy Games Shorts
Navy Football Socks
Ashmole PE Navy Zipped Fleece Top (Years 10/11 only)
Training shoes (MUST NOT have black soles)
Football boots
Shin pads

Towel (students are expected to shower
after football and rugby)

Plain navy blue tracksuit bottoms (optional)

Girls' PE Clothing

Ashmole Sky Blue Polo Shirt
Ashmole Navy Sweatshirt
Ashmole Navy Games Shorts or Skorts
Navy Football Socks
Ashmole PE Navy Zipped Fleece Top (Years 10/11 only)
Training shoes (MUST NOT have black soles)
Shin Pads
Plain navy blue tracksuit bottoms (optional


Another school is also shown below:

http://www.driffieldschool.net/information-for-parents/school-uniform

Indoor Kit:

•Plain green (standard school green) polo shirt - the current white shirts are to be phased out.
•Black shorts
•White or no socks
•Indoor clean non-marking trainers

Outdoor Kit:
•Green and black long sleeved shirt - Available from Drury Sports only.
•Black shorts
•Green long socks
•Boots and outdoor trainers

•Towel for showers (boys)

•Navy or black tracksuit bottoms may be worn during winter months for outdoor activities

•A gum shield and shin pads are strongly recommended
Swimming Kit:

•Boys - swimming trunks or shorts (not long) and towel
•Girls - a one piece swim suit/costume and towel
•Goggles can be worn if required

As men I think it is time we organised and rather than support the status quo we should demand the same rules for boys that there are for girls.

If you look at the Police force today all women wear trousers. Increasingly if we made females wear skimpy shorts or skirts there would be outrage in society.

Is it too much to ask for that boys get to choose if they want to do netball & modern dance rather than forced to do rugby?

Do girls not perspire during physical education, fall over and get muddy during hockey, suffer from urinal incontinence and period problems and may need to shower?

Why in this day and age do we allow schools to have different shower policy for boys? Even if you support the idea of compulsory showers, these seperate rules for seperate genders are wrong.

I am sure many of the bloggers on this site would be angered if there employer stated all male workers must shower at work or sit in the office bare-chested but female workers would be exempt. Lets also end skimpy swimwear for boys and allow them to cover up just like the girls.

I note Adam's reaction to Maltamon's long post.

I do not see that games kit and even the 'games' themselves can ever be entirely unisex. The favourite topic of going bare chested is a point in question.

Away from that familiar road a subject which has sometimes featured on this page is the practice of boys wearing their swimming trunks as underwear. As someone who was at school in the distant 70s I well recall that many of us wore these for comfort during pe, rugby etc and not being allowed to wear them would have seemed extraordinary. I'm sure we would have sneaked them on!

I dont know if there are those out there who agree with my observation.

I do hope that Maltamon is a troll, I would hate to think that anyone really believed the nonsense posted. Boys and girls are different beings who have different capabilities and skills and they need different challenges.

The sooner that is believed again the sooner we will be able to restore some sense to our quite mad society.

I played rugby at school and loved it. It was a boys school so I have no idea what girls did but I wouldn't change my school days for anything. I also was caned on a number of occasions and I deserved each and every stroke. I also have many happier memories, they were great years and boys ought to be allowed to have the same now instead of all this femin-socialist nonsense and drivel.

Maltamon's comments are typical of the left-wing nonsense which is increasingly common in our modern society.
Why should games etc be "unisex" whatever that means and why should pupils have choice about what games they play at school?
If you are told to do certain games at school then you should have to do them.
That also includes what clothes you wear for PE etc(including boys doing games bare-chested.)

People often say the cane done them no harm. Thankfully the cane was abolished in state schools in 1986 and in private schools in 1999. Often teachers refused to hit girls for quite serious offences but beat boys for much lesser misdemeanours. If a girl was hit it was usually a light tap. Our headmaster at primary school did not hit girls at all.

Likewise, bare-chested pe is a form of sex discrimination. True boys bodies are less defined at 5-9 years of age. This is also true of girls. At that age they have not developed breasts and are below the criminal age of responsibility for indecent exposure. However, parents would go mad if girls were forced to go topless.

In my view all pe kits should be unisex no matter what the age.

No boy/girl should be forced to pe in underwear and knickers. All schools should have a spare kit policy.

No boy should be forced to do swimming in brief style shorts. All should have the option of swimming in wetsuits or rash vests and long bermuda shorts.

All pupils should either be allowed to wear tracksuits over t-shirts and shorts or have compulsory sports trousers in the school to cover bare-legs to protect modesty and protect from the sun or cold weather.

Both boys and girls should have the same colour pe uniform. There should be no white shorts and T-shirts for boys. Girls would kick up a fuss if you could see their underwear under their sports gear.

There should be no compulsory football boots for boys. If girls doe pe in trainers then so should the boys.

The showering poicy should only be optional or recommended. There should be no compulsory showers or situations where girls have optional showers and boys mandatory showers.

There should also be no compulsory change of underwear or dictation that boys wear swimming trunks under shorts.

Football and rugby should at best be optional for boys if not phased out altogether in schools. All PE subjects should be gender nuetral.

Overall, PE kits must be unisex. Publis sector unions in school are quick to demand the end of sex discrimination against teachers but they are more relaxed about gender bias against male pupils. State sponsored mysandry may have been acceptable in past days when we had male conscription and illiberal divorce laws but in today's post feminist pluralistic society such rules have no place.

To Roger G.
Was the boy doing the handstand on the box "imported" from an older class for the photograph? He looks bigger than the other pupils in the photo. To me, that boy on the left of the group of four standing watching seems to me to be thinking "I don't want to have to do that. I thought I was coming to this school to learn Physics and Chemistry and Latin."

Rob, I suspect that if a boy made it clear he was that unhappy about doing PE barechested, his parents would send him to a school where shirts or vests were permitted. But I'd be surprised if many boys of that age were terribly bothered about it. I think it's a different matter when a boy reaches puberty, suddenly he may be more self conscious about having a six pack, whether his chest is more defined than other boys and several other body issues, especially if they do PE in front of girls. So I don't think a barechested uniform should be enforced for teenage boys, but at a younger age I can't really see that it matters.

Remember Mr Parry as am one of the boys(class3m?) in this photo (taken when BGS moved to the 'new'school in Kiddrow lane).We also did cross country races in snowy conditions also lightly clad,it did us no harm in fact toughened us up.Happy days!

But if the boys are unhappy with it they probably can't do anything.