Burnley Grammar School

David made mention of ‘Bullet Baxter’ from Grange Hill rising from Head of PE to Headteacher stating how rare this would be.
My younger brother has done just this. After completing his degree and PGCE in Liverpool he started working as a PE teacher at a school in north Merseyside. Several moves and promotions later he became head of a school in Wigan and is now a Headtracher at a senior school in the Chorley area of Lancashire.
He was born in 1969 so was not yet in senior school when Grange Hill began in January 1978. I was a first year in seniors and we did shirtless indoor PE and had showers after our PE lessons. Our PE teachers were quite different one quite strict and the younger one less so but neither were bullies.
So in the case of my brothers career life did imitate art as they say.

Comment by: TimH on 25th February 2024 at 19:11
Another 'Tour de Force' from Nathan - Thanks.


That was a swinging good post from Nathan there. To use a cricketing analogy I think it was close to the boundary of being a six.

If any of my four sons, all now in early middle age, turn up in a video such as those from 1980 or 1983 then I would be more than fine with it. I'll only be concerned if the daughter does also.

There's nothing wrong with those days. To be a boy means to do things like that.

I think that your main issue is your terrible teachers Alan isn't it, not really the kit, or lack of at all. With really encouraging and decent teachers who you might have liked I think you'd have found easier acceptance and less long term bitterness. I noticed for example you have already stated that you did not mind school showers, something many fretted about. Nathan makes a good point on that subject in part of his post actually.

Big muscly bodies aren't everything. I used to like looking at the skinny boys the most. In first and second year at my Kent upper school we sometimes shared PE and boys had no shirts on. This will be right back to 1972. My advice, don't worry about it, you looked lovely, and the boys in Steven's clip remind me of the boys I used to share PE with at that age and none should be bashful about it.

This may be a slight deviation from the actual subject but I think it has value because the conversation is currently centred on the merits or otherwise of boys being asked or mandated to go with a bared chest for PE, even if they disliked the idea of doing so. My story involved such a thing but unconnected to PE.

Going back to June 1976 I was in my final year at primary school at the age of 12. Some schools went up at 11, others at 12 in those days, mine was 12. Other people here might already have been in their first year at secondary school while I was in my final one at primary at that age.

Two classes from our top primary year went on a coach trip to the Commonwealth Institute in London for the day. It was a quite warm day and nobody took coats or jackets and some of us were allowed to wear shorts on the trip if we wanted to and I did, our school uniform that day was optional and most of us came in our regular home clothes. We all had to make sure to take our lunch boxes and a bottle of juice. I took ribena, a favourite of mine.

I remember very little about this trip or what it was about and what we saw, apart from one thing. At lunchtime we sat around with our packed lunches and drinks and a boy from the other class thought it would be funny to throw my beaker of ribena I'd poured from my bottle, at me, covering my light coloured polo top all purple & red. It stained the whole thing over the front and shoulders. He got sent to face the wall and stand there hands on head as punishment for doing that.

I was a mess and sticky, and it didn't look good but I had nothing else to switch it with. I was only wearing the one layer that day as it was warm. The teacher (a woman) was furious with that kid for doing that and because I looked such a state she was wondering how to deal with me and asked the other teacher who came with us that day (male) what to do. He suggested me and him quickly find a shop and he could buy me a clean cheap makeshift top, after asking if anyone with us had a layer they could spare for me and getting no joy there. But the teacher who was directly in charge of our group (a woman) told him there was no time to be doing that and told me the simplest and quickest solution was for me to take it off, put it in my bag because she couldn't be having me walking around looking like that, stained all over with ribena, as it wouldn't look good.

I told her I was okay to walk around like that but she told me I couldn't and made me take my polo top off against my wishes and very reluctantly go bare chested, then got a tissue out and wiped away at my sticky chest too for added embarrassment just like she was my mother, it had come right through to the skin. It was actually the other teacher (male) who was not happy with this but she was in charge of our group and was a forceful character.

I remember saying I can't walk around like this for the rest of the trip. We still had all afternoon at the Institute ahead of us after lunch. I was just told it was a hot day and it would not matter, I'd be alright and if anyone not from our school asked, then tell them what happened and if anyone from the Institute asked she would explain my appearance. During the afternoon I was heard moaning about it and was told to stop complaining and pay attention by her. Various classmates were sniggering at me from time to time. The boy who did it to me was kept at the teachers side and not allowed to leave it.

So I was forced to spend an afternoon going around that venue with my school in my bared chest, and spend the whole trip home on the coach like that as well, facing jokes, which came thick and fast on the coach trip back.

Now that is when being bare chested is humiliating, and it was done to me by a female primary teacher.

When we got back to school at the end of the afternoon my teacher told me she was writing a quick note for me to take home and explain the ribena stained top to my parents. By that time I had been relieved of my top for hours on end and was used to it, it was very warm and I just walked home much the same rather than put this horrible sticky top back on, I could hardly suffer much more humiliation than I already had.

When I got in and handed the note over and got the stained top out the schoolbag my mum was cross as hell with that kid that did it but thought the teacher should have allowed me to decide if I wanted to spend half a day of our school trip going around a London attraction stripped to the waist. I felt like I had been punished more than the kid that did it to me actually.

But there is a good point to this as well and halfway through the afternoon going around the Institute my best friend at the time could see I was seriously peeved and asked his own male teacher in charge of him if he could take his top off so I didn't feel so bad about it and was allowed to. He was super confident. I was just averagely so. That's a best friend thinking about you.

Next day back in school out on the playground me and my best friend pinned the kid who did it to me against the wall and with another boy relieved him of his school shirt and tie and ran off with it, as he chased us and began crying to get it back.

In the years afterwards I did as much bare chest PE as anyone else at the time probably and I was largely accepting of it when it happened.

Lisa, did boys join your PE like that only once? If not, how often did this happen?

Do you remember if the girls ever spoke to the boys about it or teased them in any way?

Comment by Nathan Hind on 25th February 2024


"If I am correct in my assumption of you Alan, you were at school in the early 80s at the time these recent videos were taken. Just a touch before I was born, only just. The culture definitely has a different look and feel to today that's something I can see. But would you have ever considered an approach to your PE teacher, any of them, to express your worries and unhappiness, and even if you would not have done, what do you think the reaction might of been from say, your nicest PE teacher, you must have had at least one who seemed reasonable?"

With respect, Nathan, there seems little point in repeating what I have already said. Had you read some of my posts you will know I went to a run-down school, in East London, forever on the verge of closing and we had ONE P.E. teacher (no deputy) who listened to nobody. What chance do you think I would have had?.

You are talking of an especially unpleasant teacher of the old school, and I was dealing with him even before you were born, by your own admission.

I still, however, can find no reason why you are still submitting pupils to these old fashioned bare-chested teaching practices in the 21st century. I can only assume you are instructed to do so by your superiors, and like yourself, they have no reason for it except it is how things used to be done. The practices of yesterday are not necessarily the best ones for today.

As regards showers, at least you can take your towel to the shower with you (even if it gets a bit wetter) to give you a slight degree of modesty, or protection, call it what you will.

Of course, you are right if you held a vote in your school about that schools practices I guess all the lads would be reluctant to put their hands up, but why have an unnecessary system in the first place?. It should be clear to you that, even in later life, if you read other posts more than you do mine, many lads were unhappy with it in our own day and if anything kids are more sensitive today.

Another 'Tour de Force' from Nathan - Thanks.

If I'm looking at the right school it was Brackenber House in Belfast, a 'Prep School' that closed in about 1985.

Nathan asks us: My question - Do you really think the boys in Steven's film from 1980 are being humiliated, or the ones in the previous grainy video from a couple of years later?
After looking briefly at the film on YT - my answer is simply 'No' - there is a bit towards the end where two older boys are caught 'deep in conversation' (a 'Candid Camera' moment. The looks on their faces when they realise whats been happening ...
(Of course others may disagree)

I made a post a little while back about 6th Form PE back in the mid-60s. I missed out the last line which was something like: 'at the end of the session we all stripped off and showered - because it was the sensible thing to do'.

For footage of boys PE outside the school environment there is a 1962 'Look at Life' 'short' entitled 'Boys without Girls' - about the 'Boys Club' movement - an interesting view.

I'm being tempted back by the improved quality and a point I wish to raise about the clip left here by Steven today. Certainly some nice historic films coming up on here whatever you think of them.

But Alan, it always comes around to you so much here doesn't it, and I know I will never be able to fully satisfy you with my answers but let's leave that aside, we dealt with that one and don't need to go there again on my own specifics.

My question - Do you really think the boys in Steven's film from 1980 are being humiliated, or the ones in the previous grainy video from a couple of years later?

What I will suggest to you is that there are clearly differences between one generation and the next, it would be surprising if there were not, and there is more awareness nowadays surrounding personal issues as I've tried to suggest.

If you are not aware of a problem how can you solve it.

Now I suppose I could gather all the classes I take together throughout the week and simply ask for a show of hands about who is happy in PE and see if any remain down, or maybe I could directly ask for a show of hands asking for anyone to indicate a discomfort being asked to do the occasional PE lesson in a bare chest. But I tell you now what would happen, certainly in the latter case, there would be no show of hands, and not because they might all feel great about everything, nobody needs me on here to tell them how hard it would be to admit this. The story that Mark Twyford left on here was a very powerful one with a good message and I thought positive.

We do PE, some is non shirted. We require showers, they are as you'd expect, wearing nothing. But to reiterate, it is nobody's interest to impact anyone's mental health and wellbeing to the point of trauma about such things and if with some that was the case and it was identified then alternative provision would be sought. But just look at the Twyford comment, they did that and look what happened.

One other thing, I see a lot of comment surrounding the bare chest issue but within many of these comments a lot do not mention the shower that comes after PE, which if you are concerned about losing your shirt you must surely be even more concerned about losing everything but this does not always translate in many comments I have seen here. Perhaps it should be seen as an assumption that those who disliked PE done in a bare chest automatically felt the same when asked to shower after their lessons?

If I am correct in my assumption of you Alan, you were at school in the early 80s at the time these recent videos were taken. Just a touch before I was born, only just. The culture definitely has a different look and feel to today that's something I can see. But would you have ever considered an approach to your PE teacher, any of them, to express your worries and unhappiness, and even if you would not have done, what do you think the reaction might of been from say, your nicest PE teacher, you must have had at least one who seemed reasonable?

Whether I continue to contribute will depend on the quality of the posts.

Comment by: Chris 69 on 24th February 2024 at 18:11




"I was born in Nov 69 which made all my teenage years sit within the eighties.

Like many other men who seem to be around my age on here, I had very similar outcomes in PE at that time.

Just went to the local comp like many of us.

Never was a fan of going bare chested in school PE. It made me feel very self conscious almost every time I did it. I definitely did not like being told to do so when we already had a kit we could wear.

Although we had a set PE kit for both indoors and outdoors which we had to bring on the right days, I'd say that when it came to going in the school gym for those days we must have actually put on the proper PE kit in about 20 percent of cases because the teachers weren't interested in boys doing PE covered up and all of them acted the same as each other and made us keep our tops off and do those lessons bare chested.....


"When we did stick the PE tops on I think it was either because we were doing one of those notorious skin and shirts games against each other or the PE teacher was feeling generous and having a good day or something. It's not worth trying to understand the why's of it all I think.

But my own father told me he never did PE like that in his school in the fifties and sixties period. He said he always wore a slim firm fitting white vest along with everyone else and never remembers doing PE in school at any age in a bare chest like I did in the eighties.

Going back another generation I have a grandfather who was in the navy and I have got many photo's of him on ship, and some include what they then called PT (physical training as opposed to education) and in all of them he is wearing a white vest as well. There are no bare chests to be seen in any of the photos I have from his navy days on ship.

Quite what all this means I have no idea."

Your father and grandfather's experiences backs up what I said recently, Chris, that the documentary films I have seen on television, which shows services PT sessions - even for conscripts - were done with singlets.

What it means, I am sure is that the teachers just want to exercise the power that is given to them. Most teachers I knew of would be aware of, but totally uninterested in, the humiliation they sought to impose. All their excuses for it is just that - excuses with no basis in fact.

Here's an excellent video from the 1980s showcasing physical education as I recall it: boys always stripped to the waist, wearing white shorts, barefoot indoors, and with white socks and trainers for outdoor activities. These pupils seem disciplined and well-behaved. It's disheartening to observe how much cultural regression has occurred in Britain since then.
https://youtu.be/uyzO5cA14v8?si=-1GnZ9rXWB-oCCID&t=16

There was a recent mention of the Grange Hill school programme on here regarding the PE scenes in it and teachers.

I just saw online that an actor called Stuart Organ, a name that meant nothing to me, but did have a familiar face from TV, one of those know the face not the name types, has passed away.

Taken direct from his wikipedia entry tonight,

'Organ was best known for his portrayal of the character Mr. Robson in the children's television drama Grange Hill. Organ portrayed the series' longest-serving teacher, arriving in 1988 as the new head of PE. In 1998 he finally landed the headmaster's job, but left the series in 2003 soon after production of Grange Hill transferred to Liverpool.'


I know it's fiction, but what I found interesting and a point worth raising here is that a PE teacher became an actual head teacher. Just how common is that in reality I wonder? It just feels rare.

Some of you asked about my e-mail adress. There is no special meaning of it. Some of my mates was kidding I was like a freedomfighter in my teenage years. I was rebellious sometimes but in an innocent teenage way. So I kept that name when I chose my mail.

Well I respect everyone's dignity but I've never thought having to be barechested in PE (for us only in shirts vs skins back then) as an attack to our dignity. Swimming lessons are the same as I wrote some days ago. Well wearing the vest is almost the same as barechested 'cause it doesn't cover too much. I think keeping our dignity is not about wearing vests or T-shirts. In spite all of these it is interesting that in some schools PE lesson of the 80's were stricter about PE kit than some 60's schools.

Is it too much of a side-step to muse what guys wore as sleepwear in mid/late teens? I was always T/boxers and hadn't had PJs for years. At our sixth form induction residential I was surprised the variation - from proper PJs through to just PJ bottoms or boxers.

I guess I didn't voluntarily go shirtless often at all!

In my school in the late 70s a boys PE group came and joined us and I was so embarrassed when they all came filing into the PE hall without their shirts on and I think many girls were as well by just being around so many boys like that when we must have been something like thirteen at the time. I never noticed whether the boys might be feeling strange about it but know how I felt. I do remember feeling rather distracted by it all to see real boys like that as I didn't have any brothers or male cousins and my parents didn't go in for beach holidays so that was my first memorable time seeing the opposite sex undressed in the actual flesh so to speak, in school PE and I got an overdose of a couple of dozen of them at once. I do remember thinking many of them looked nice though.

I guess some of them might have been as embarrassed as I felt if these comments are anything to go by. But like is being said, that was how it was in school, pushed about and doing things you didn't like.

I was born in Nov 69 which made all my teenage years sit within the eighties.

Like many other men who seem to be around my age on here, I had very similar outcomes in PE at that time.

Just went to the local comp like many of us.

Never was a fan of going bare chested in school PE. It made me feel very self conscious almost every time I did it. I definitely did not like being told to do so when we already had a kit we could wear.

Although we had a set PE kit for both indoors and outdoors which we had to bring on the right days, I'd say that when it came to going in the school gym for those days we must have actually put on the proper PE kit in about 20 percent of cases because the teachers weren't interested in boys doing PE covered up and all of them acted the same as each other and made us keep our tops off and do those lessons bare chested.

I saw the video clip from 83 with the PE display earlier upthread. A familiar scene there to me.

When we did stick the PE tops on I think it was either because we were doing one of those notorious skin and shirts games against each other or the PE teacher was feeling generous and having a good day or something. It's not worth trying to understand the why's of it all I think.

But my own father told me he never did PE like that in his school in the fifties and sixties period. He said he always wore a slim firm fitting white vest along with everyone else and never remembers doing PE in school at any age in a bare chest like I did in the eighties.

Going back another generation I have a grandfather who was in the navy and I have got many photo's of him on ship, and some include what they then called PT (physical training as opposed to education) and in all of them he is wearing a white vest as well. There are no bare chests to be seen in any of the photos I have from his navy days on ship.

Quite what all this means I have no idea.

For the benefit of Frances who wrote that overnight perhaps a good time to simply paste up what I put here on 28th January incase you might have missed it.

Comment by: Russell Spark on 28th January 2024 at 11:24
P.E at school seemed very dictatorial. I can remember a somewhat scary man who I met in my early days at the big school, the usual style suburban home counties all abilities comprehensive. It's really quite true what Orson says about such memories staying with you, it's the same with me as someone who had my sixtieth birthday at Christmas just gone. I can still remember many lines teachers of all subjects used to come out with.

The scary PE teacher actually meant to scare us I think. I don't think I imagined it. It was all part of creating that first impression and making sure it stuck with you for future reference. It worked on me. He gathered us all fresh in our school uniforms in the changing room before the first lesson and i remember us all being cramped against each other with bags and bodies, shiny shoes on, blazers and ties and feeling very apprehensive indeed. There didn't seem to be a great deal of warmth or pleasure to see a group of new boys he was going to work with, not at first anyway.

He was full of explaining rules. He kept saying "at this school". The one that got me was, and yes I can literally remember every word of it al this time later to perfection. "at this school you will shower whether you like it or not, starting today, and I don't want any excuses or any notes coming from any of your parents about it to me".

A few more bits of information and then it was "get out of your uniforms quickly, anyone brought their P.E vest?". Quite a few hands went up including mine. "Don't bother, you do P.E with me without that, you'll go without when I take you" and so we did. Another teacher always allowed us our P.E vest but we rarely had him. Footwear was never a regular gym option either whoever we had.

I disliked this teacher despite his slight mellowing as the years went on and he got to know us but his basic attitude just never changed and was accepted by not just us at school in his class but clearly by everyone he worked alongside who must have known what he was like.

Luckily for me I did not allow this to put me off enjoying keeping physically active in various ways, swimming, running, cycling, skiing and even some rowing after school and was not somebody who had some of the fears expressed on earlier pages but know he made many lives I shared at school less than happy while under his tutoring.

I ended up running one of the early London Marathons in a sub three hour time, I bet my P.E teacher couldn't have done that. I did run sirtless at school but only with the teacher I mentioned who did it with us that way but others we went out in shirts. Now I'm sixty I've been reading the comments on the new bareskin craze and wouldn't hesitate to give it a go. I saw the comment that was made a few weeks ago that less confident men have given it a go feeling safe in numbers doing so. If you are one of those types at least try it once it might just surprise you. I was okay with it at school but know others hated it.

IP Logged: ***.**.85.59

Comment by: Frances on 24th February 2024
The eldest, now in his fifties, sailed through school and PE came easy. The younger, struggled a lot. We had a lot of talks at the time about things he didn't like doing in PE, which was just about everything really, apart from some of the summer games they used to play outside. I remember one troubling comment he made to me one day when he described his school gym as being like a prison for young offenders. I could never quite get to the cause of that reaction, looking back I might have taken it more seriously.


Ask him Frances! It's not too late to find out is it. Everyone has long memories of their time doing PE in school even if we got through it without much bother or concern. I wouldn't read too much into the young offenders prison comment if I were you. I rather know what he was thinking and I'd imagine many others will do too from those boys gyms in school years ago.

Comment by: Frances on 24th February 2024 at 03:18


"....... My other the youngest by five years disliked sport in general, wore smart clothes all the while, always stayed clean and liked more studious things such as reading books and finding out facts......
I remember one troubling comment he made to me one day when he described his school gym as being like a prison for young offenders. I could never quite get to the cause of that reaction, looking back I might have taken it more seriously."

Frances I can never sleep beyond about 2.45, whether I go to bed early or late. At least the brighter days are coming and I always love being awake, up, and alert by 4.30 in the summer mornings.

As you will probably guess, if you have read anything I have written on this topic, I have every sympathy with your younger son. The yelling, shouting and, frankly, bullying, - certainly of our P.E. teacher,- if you were not good at (or frankly uninterested in) his lessons was incredible. Many P.E. teachers are almost Evangelistic in their desire for everybody to be 100% proficient. Other subjects as well, but you lost any interest you might have had, when the teacher more or less encouraged the "good" students to join in with their derision. The worse you were the louder they shouted, all, alas, to very little purpose,

Somebody the other day made the very good point (it might have been the teacher himself) that he knew most boys loved and were good at football, and they kept their games at a high level, but for the group that were not, he made it more fun for them by having little five a side teams, so that, while they still took part, they were not involved with the hard core of football lovers. Such teachers seem rare. Perhaps less so now, than they were in the 1980s.

I was trying to make the point to Nick yesterday (23rd February 4.01 a.m.) that not everybody is comfortable in situations that he clearly had no problem with, and, when I was working in a band I was able to dress smartly. I always wore a suit, and collar and tie when I was playing. I always had this theory that if I played a wrong note it would not sound as bad (or as noticeable) as it would have been in jeans, tee shirt and long hair. I probably wasn't right, but that is how I felt. At least it gave me dignity, and some sense of control. When you have some loudmouth forcing you to take your clothes off that makes you lose all dignity in your own eyes.

There was, I repeat, absolutely no need - then OR now - to make lads dress down like that, especially in their sensitive teenage years. The only reason they do it, in my view, is this power trip that teachers are on, and they know they can "make you" do it. If only they knew how loathed they are by the adult victims of their bluster. Just because they forget us, we don't forget them!




Comment by: Ethan on 23rd February 2024 at 13:00



Believe me, Ethan, Just like you, I dread the arrival of the toolmakers son and his acolytes and I dread to think what they will get up to. You will have no argument from me!

I'm a 78 year old insomniac mother of two boys. Both went to school in the 1980's as teenagers. I'd prefer not to name the school if that is alright because one of the languages teachers while they were there actually took her life and the inquest at the time recorded a suicide verdict due to staff bullying against her. So actually not just children at school face these problems but the staff can from each other too.

Although my own two sons came from the same home and the same upbringing they held many different ideas and attitudes to the world and the interests they took up. The eldest loved getting thrown about, doing things that made him dirty and he loved PE. He would get stuck into anything and still does. He was always out in the garden without much on any chance he got and still does when he comes to help do gardening over springtime and summer if it's nice out. My other the youngest by five years disliked sport in general, wore smart clothes all the while, always stayed clean and liked more studious things such as reading books and finding out facts.

The eldest, now in his fifties, sailed through school and PE came easy. The younger, struggled a lot. We had a lot of talks at the time about things he didn't like doing in PE, which was just about everything really, apart from some of the summer games they used to play outside. I remember one troubling comment he made to me one day when he described his school gym as being like a prison for young offenders. I could never quite get to the cause of that reaction, looking back I might have taken it more seriously.

That aside, the one thing that used to bother the younger one the most was simply taking his clothes off in front of anyone, even his family, after he was about ten years old. I noticed the change almost overnight. I remember him becoming very fearful of going to school and having to shower, and the school he was at had the added complication of doing the PE inside without anything on the upper body. His older brother left school just as he began there, and I remember he was always asking him questions.

They were both, and still are, very good looking boys. I would say that though wouldn't I, but it's true. Except they have vastly differing personalities poles apart about everything.

A shame the clip wasn't a bit longer Ethan. It seems to be among this site with further general pics and vids of school in the 70s if anyone is interested.

https://www.gettyimages.ch/video/school-70s


Did that mere 8 seconds traumatise anyone here then? I say half jokingly.

Alan....."With all due respect, Nick, we sometimes forget that what we are comfortable doing, might not be the same for others."


I'm not going to like living under a Labour Government for the next few years but am going to have to put up with it whether I like it or not, with my background. With all due respect of course to you Alan too.

While I'm here, I stumbled across this very short little snippet film of the school gym as I remember it, not that I was too bothered. I was quite good at a few things.

Titled;
School boys climb ropes and ladders at gym class / UK
Climbing ropes dangle from rafter / boys climb ropes / boy swings through ladder and turns around / boys climb down ladder

https://www.gettyimages.ch/detail/video/school-boys-climb-ropes-and-ladders-at-gym-class-stock-videomaterial/mr_00106250?adppopup=true

Comment by: Nick H on 22nd February 2024 at 21:45
Re; The 1983 Gym Display Boys Video.



"They were in front of a few parents I presume, so they've already seen their sons shirtless so many times, their friends in class obviously have and so have the teachers of PE, and just look at them all, normal looking and in perfect shape as far as the eye could see in that poor quality film clip....

.... It never crossed my mind that anyone I was in school with might actually be scared to remove their top and go shirtless in PE when we sometimes did that."


With all due respect, Nick, we sometimes forget that what we are comfortable doing, might not be the same for others. For example, I would have been quite happy to get up and play a solo on "A Night In Tunisia" on the trumpet. Would you?. I wouldn't expect others to do what I could do, and wouldn't regard them as "lesser" for not being able so to do. We all have different talents. I would not say, as you did, that those boys who were reluctant were "scared", but that some might have been uncomfortable or nervous.. What's wrong with that?. It's called being human.

I wonder if the teacher who filmed that display 41 years ago got permission from every lad to film them?. You can be sure he didn't seek them out to get their permission to place it on You Tube decades later.

Just a couple of weeks ago I went to see quite a famous musician performing at the Pizza Express jazz club in Soho, and a bloke quite near me had the audacity to get his mobile phone out to record sound and vision. I doubt it would have even crossed his mind to ask permission of either the musician or the trio who were backing him. Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean to say you should do it. Forty odd years ago he would have had to take a camera and a cassette tape recorder into that club, to achieve the same object, and I very much doubt he would have had the space, let alone the permission, to do what he did so casually a few weeks ago.

Again with this teacher, I daresay he thought he could do what he liked because he had the power to do so.

Re; The 1983 Gym Display Boys Video.

No problem with that at all. PE is supposed to push you out of your comfort zone. Get shirtless and enjoy it. That's a great gym look. What is exactly wrong with what is being done there, the boys all look fine and fit, so where does the problem arise exactly?

They were in front of a few parents I presume, so they've already seen their sons shirtless so many times, their friends in class obviously have and so have the teachers of PE, and just look at them all, normal looking and in perfect shape as far as the eye could see in that poor quality film clip.

I'm sure they all went off for a nice hot shower afterwards with each other too. That's school in the early 80s for you and at many other times before that and since. It never crossed my mind that anyone I was in school with might actually be scared to remove their top and go shirtless in PE when we sometimes did that.

Comment by: Chris G on 22nd February 2024 at 17:33
Just tried to look at this - it doesn't seem to be available any more!


The link provided by Dave does still work. I just checked it out as of 7pm tonight. This should start at 8m23s regards the part talked about today.

https://youtu.be/yvk1Moxdva0?feature=shared&t=503


Comment by: Simon Mayer on 22nd February 2024.

Quite an interesting little story of your own private experience on a public day there. At least you got thanked for doing it. It is a pity when you do something like that which made such an impact on you and there is no record of it that you know of. But with things as they are nowadays, never say never, this internet thing may yet turn up something one day from someone if it hasn't already.

Why are so many people who use this forum insomniacs, or are they just very late to bed or very early to rise? Last night was a bit busy!

Comment by: Nigel on 21st February 2024 at 23:29


"I'd have been horrified if my school had made me do that!

It actually brought back some of those old days feelings I used to have just watching it."


Me too, Nigel, where that last line is concerned. And pace Neil saying that all the participants "took part willingly", I wonder? - we can't possibly know, 41 years later - certainly Simon Mayer in a similar situation gives the lie to that, and I suspect there were many more Simon's both in 1977 and 1983. it reminds you of the old army saying "I want three volunteers - you, you and you!". Those lads are now in their fifties and if some of them were aware that video is still around, it would be interesting to hear their views on it today. Was it entirely voluntary?. Sometimes you can be good at something and roped in to do it, whether you want to or not, through that other favourite expression "peer pressure". It looks too well drilled and choreographed to be "fun", though I suppose the mums and dads in the audience enjoyed it.
Comment by: Jack on 22nd February 2024 at 07:57
#

"News: Japan Naked Man Festival To End After A Thousand Years"


A nation mourns! :-)


Comment by: Gary on 22nd February 2024 at 15:33



I did a little detective work - it seems this school was in Walthamstow E17 (the name Sidney Chaplin rang a bell, many of the E London schools carried the names of long dead local dignitaries) and it looks like the man Broughton, who posted the film was a PE master there from 1970 until 1985. The school is now defunct, but unlike mine was retained and renamed and carries on, hopefully in a more enlightened way. Mine luckily became a supermarket. It seems typical of those dreary East London schools of the time:

Walthamstow Memories - Sidney Chaplin Secondary School

Walthamstow Memories - Sidney Chaplin Secondary School
Dedicated to the memories of those who were born, arrived, lived, worked or died in Walthamstow, formerly an Urb...

"Comment by: Dave on 21st February 2024 at 15:36
Sorry I haven't sent the link in my last comment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvk1Moxdva0"

Just tried to look at this - it doesn't seem to be available any more!

Thankyou Bill for that positive response.

Ross.

Comment by: Nigel on 21st February 2024 at 23:29
Am I missing something here? Dave's YT film, this part from about eight and a half minutes in for a minute or two looked less like a gym lesson and more like a Miss World parade from those days, except for boys. All they were doing was lining up and then trotting around in circles for the pleasure of those watching and getting applauded at the end, for what exactly?
I'd have been horrified if my school had made me do that!
It actually brought back some of those old days feelings I used to have just watching it.



I think I would have been too, just running around in circles in that manner. They needed large numbers on their wrists, it was like some kind of viewing parade. But at least they got the gym shoes, I went without those in my school gym as well, but you are correct and just looking at something such as that takes you right back to your own days, especially if like me and others your own school dictated this was the way they wanted you in their gym for PE.

I thought the gym set up looked a bit of a rabble really, boys hanging off the wall frames, random people hanging around the sides, the part with the boys line up and synchronised turning and off was the only part that looked neat and orderly. I'm also willing to bet that it was not a parent that took that but most probably someone on the teaching staff who did that and stuck it on there. Quite surprising there are so few comments under it, you might have thought with all those boys and girls one or two might have noticed it and commented since it's been up.

I can only begin to imagine what an old film of me in PE might look like if it had ever been taken and I had a chance to look back at it. I think it would both horrify, embarrass and fascinate me in equal measure to see myself as I was doing such things in school gym in similar style to those boys.

Comment by - Ross on 21st February 2024.
I may as well show my hand here. I took a screenshot of what Bill wrote on this forum and emailed a copy of his comment as it appeared here direct to the school he mentioned.
From my inbox I will share a cut and paste reply I had below;
-Hello Ross,
Thankyou for your recent query and attachment. The statement you provided by that gentleman has been seen and the details confirmed to me by the physical education team here at Queensbury Academy and I hope this answer meets with your satisfaction. Good luck with your future research.-
That was the reply and authenticated the comment made here that interested me as a 37 year old bare chest averse schoolboy myself from not too many miles away.




No complaint about this at all Ross. I am perfectly relaxed about this because it was an honest observation, one I have now made on three occasions since the first one I saw on 27th November three months ago, so for anyone wishing for anything more abrasive I'm sorry to disappoint and I'm pleased they gave you a reply even if it did take such a long time. Details matter and verification is fine by me.

News: Japan Naked Man Festival To End After A Thousand Years.

It seems there are no longer enough younger people willing to strip off and get naked around loads of other people anymore as the older generation once did as the demographic ages.

Just google, plenty of news items about it. I'd never heard of it until a paper review last night spoke about it on the telly.