Burnley Grammar School

Orson, there was a time, before modern day interpretation, when there was a total disregard for male dignity, and probably always worse in all male environments, though not always. This would even be taken advantage by some, be it from same age peers as in your case, or even by adults, and of either gender. It’s just how it was, and we all had to put up with it.

I doubt such would happen today, especially in a school environment, as everyone is now so hypersensitive to such things. I was still at school in the 70s, though I never experienced or witnessed anything as you described, but others on here have mentioned similar. I did have my own awkward moments at a similar age, and I expect most of us did in one way or another.

By the way, despite always being quite a sporty kid, I think I was about as good as you at rope climbing.

Rope climbing holds a particular bad humiliating memory for me and it was something we were told to do a lot at school.

I suffered a PE class with a generally unsympathetic PE teacher to those of us who didn't have the required abilities he expected of us and rope climbing was one aspect he would never accept a boy being unable to achieve with apparent speed and ease. But the class has a pair of clowns who loved jokes and got away with them.

One day I began climbing the rope in my usual cack handed useless manner, uniform for PE was only shorts, no shirts, and as soon as I began climbing someone grabbed my shorts and pulled them right down taking my underpants with them and pulled them right off me. My teacher laughed and told me to carry on going and forget my shorts laying underneath the rope on the mat and I was made to climb the rope completely naked to about as far as I could manage which was about three quarters of the way up, not touching the ceiling. I never managed that ever. Coming down I was called a completely useless good for nothing idiot and had my shorts thrown into my chest.

I don't even think this was that exceptional at a school in the 1970s and similar cases must have happened all over the place. The incident lasted no more then two minutes but left a lifetime of memory.

So I have no liking for the PE rope and even less for anyone who finds it amusing to deliberately set out to dreadfully humiliate a child on purpose. I think I must have been about twelve at the time.

This is the first time I have ever told anyone this story. I now live in Hong Kong where I am a software engineer so couldn't have been as useless as I was told and have never needed to climb a rope again in my life but feel sure if I ever do need to do so to escape a fire or something then enough adrenaline will enable me to do so if needed.

Comment by: Jason on 24th January 2024 at 21:30


Thanks Jason for that opening remark. I agree with you 100% about the now ¨Lord¨ Watson. That was purely politically motivated. You alone seem to have seen the hyperbole of that revolting suggestion that I was Carl Beech manque. Again, thanks for being the only person with the decency and courage to say so..

To everyone else, including the resigners (I know now how Rishi Sunak feels getting blamed for everything!). Do you all remember - I can´t be the only one? - who finds that these days weeks go too quick, and years flash by.

Remember in your teens how slowly time went?. Weeks seemed like months, months seemed like years. Just imagine how it felt to have to cope with individuals like the two I described , for years, and there was nothing you could do about it?. The only consolation today is that if such things occurred, there is a very good chance that those concerned could speak out, and the perpetrators bought to justice. But not always - as Nicky Campbell is sadly finding out.

I think the Carl Beech analogy was just a little unfair but I understand why you made it in the context you did. Of course in that case that person was being given airtime on national radio by the quite utterly odious O'Brien chap who uses an LBC show for personal crusading himself. Luckily I'm at work and never have to put up with such garbage but that dreadful presenter allowed that man a platform that caused enomrous reputational damage to innocents and in our ever mad world got away with it whereas a few years ago he would have been out on his ear and lucky to find further employment on the tiniest local network if he was lucky. The same goes for the lamentable Tom Watson, now Lord Watson the former Labour deputy. And they say Britain is one of the least corrupt countries in the world do they, who are they kidding? It's just more sinister and underhand although in the two cases I've mentioned quite out in the open.

I don't mind people coming on here saying how they feared doing PE with their shirts off, didn't like the forced willy waving naked showers and all that, that's actually normal stuff many felt with PE, or the winter cross countries and all those things, or the rope climbing, WE ALL DID IT! You're not special if you did these things and got watched. I should think looking at the 200th naked lad that week was quite boring for most teachers, not some kind of thrill and to pretend otherwise in so many cases is just silly. A few teachers yes, most no way.

So quite right not to overdo the paper articles about such people in a country with 35,000 schools and 65 million people. 180 years ago you' d have been sent naked down a coal mine with girls at the age of just 6 or 7 sometimes, for 18 hours a day!

I'm saying goodbye too.

Geoff had it right. To hijack a thread to never stop pushing the same agenda against people like me in my former profession who never did anything wrong all our lives and acted professionally at all times is deeply hurtful to many good people.

To come back after the truce with more of the same showed a total lack of basic sense and proved to me once and for all the agenda was going too far.

This is not the place for some people to work through their deep seated problems of this nature. To say Happy New year and instantly go into a paedophile teacher case was quite literally stunningly stupid in the extreme. You lost your final backers with that one. There is a time and a place for everything and that was just so wrong headed.

No more from me - goodbye History World.

I am an teacher who has chosen to work in the private sector, now well into my second year at my latest school. We teach boys and girls years 1 to 6 so 6 to 11 years of age. This is an excellent school with an outstanding OFSTED report, but it does have one peculiarity these days which seems very anachronistic. During the upcoming Summer term the boys indoor PE kit will change from T-shirt and shorts to shorts only. It was school policy last year and it will be again this year. The reason given for the policy is strictly practical, to keep the boys cool while exercising hard indoors in warmer weather. The head teacher does not want some boys suffering unnecessarily from the heat of summer so all boys must go bare chested while this is a possibility. It is seen as addressing a genuine health and safety need. It is therefore seen as no different to mandating bare feet in PE also for safety reasons. Doing less active work in PE as an alternative to keep them cooler is seen as undesirable. The mandate only applies to years 4,5 and 6, so the older boys who are indeed expected to work harder in PE. At this school physical education is taken seriously. The boys do something every day, swimming one day, outdoor games twice a week and indoor PE twice a week. The mandate does not apply to outdoor PE where top must always be worn to avoid sunburn, but hot weather is a reason for bringing the session indoors, as is rain. If an outdoor games session is deemed undesirable due to weather conditions the boys come into the hall, remove shoes, socks and rugby top and do a normal indoor PE lesson in just their shorts. In these lessons boys and girls usually share the hall while in PE they are split. As far as i can tell last year all the boys i took for PE adapted to the mandate without too much fuss.

So i am asking how do you mothers of sons who read this site feel about this, and the teachers, i would like your opinions too. It is mandated on health and safety grounds which often trumps all other considerations. Is a bare chest not too different to bare feet in the context of indoor school pe. I was really surprised myself at first but have come to think that it does make sense.

If this school has made its decision based on health and safety maybe your kids school will soon do the same as summers become hotter and longer. How do your sons schools adapt their PE to the warmer weather?

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Comment by: Geoff on 20th January 2024 at 16:06


I do know for a fact that Boreham died sometime in the early 1990s, Geoff. It is quite likely Roberts is dead as well by now, so they will never pay for their behaviour. I don't see the point of justice beyond the grave. Anyway, with the sort of shower we get on this site, even if it could be proved, I doubt they would believe it.

I am sick of people alleging that I post under multiple names - Hugh was deeply offensive towards me in implying insanity, claiming to be a doctor of some sort - and we all remember who Karl Beech was and what he did. If I am to be regarded in the same vein as that creep - and even very recent offences are shrugged off here, frankly, what is the point?. I doubt the events of 40+ years ago would be of any interest to anybody.

Frankly some of the comments I have received from some of these posters are in the gutter.

It will be interesting to see what schools of the future look like, when Nanny Starmer starts his teeth brushing lessons!

As regards "Original Andy" yesterday and what he and his wife "think", I haven't the faintest idea what he was talking about - neither, I suspect does he. Perhaps Mrs Original Andy could translate for us.

As T.S. Elliot wrote many years ago "humankind cannot bear too much reality"

I agree with the first line of Geoff's post.

Enough is enough. I was largely sympathetic for a long time but that was the end of it for me.

I will no longer be posting on this forum as it just revolves around the same things. It looked promising for a day or two but didn't last.

So it's a final goodbye from me.

To sign off actually Andy I've disagreed with some of your comment and tone in the past but today I have to admit that was one of your best comments I've seen and persuasive.

The legacy of this forum is that it might make me and my son do a bit of bareskin running together come the spring. He likes the idea.

The new ID system seems deeply flawed and a waste of time. I've already seen people with differing IP's. Quite pointless in my opinion.

Goodbye.

Geoff, you give sound advice however I think in this case and I’ve thought it for some time that here we have more of a Carl Beech than anything else otherwise why would someone who is so perpetually obsessed with abuse not have done something rather than continue to post here to an utterly disinterested audience. I note three links posted in recent weeks and not a single person has responded to them in any way but they continue to be posted. I have previously been accused of all sorts in the past by him including the usual one of being someone else who I am not and all to no avail. Fortunately the other posters in the room here are adults.

I do note with some relief that the multiple posts of noise agreeing with the poster in question have ceased since the matter of IP addresses was put in place, it’s not perfect but it’s clear no one is multi posting in short order from the same place. You might wonder where they have all gone but of course, it was obvious to me at least what was happening and I simply couldn’t put up with the level of twisted, nasty abuse from a single source using multiple names that were chaotic, misquoting and building on the misquotes. There’s more to life. I think similar to another poster, my ‘offence’ was to have enjoyed PE at school and appreciated the expertise of the teachers.

My heart sank the moment I saw more of the same regards abusive teachers with the article posted at the start of the year. It was hardly the new beginning I would have expected with yet more of the same.

So here is my advice as a former police officer and detective. The statute of limitations does not apply in cases of the kind you write about Alan. Even if the person you speak of is now deceased that does not matter.

You clearly feel very strongly. Therefore I urge you to make an approach to your local police after collecting all your facts. They will take you seriously, more so nowadays than ever in the past. You owe it to yourself and others. If you do this further enquiries may well find a bigger story, discover more people like you and others who were abusive who can be held to account.

Have you never considered this? It is not too late. Do so. That is my advice. You have nothing to lose do you.

Acting in the way I suggest will be much more useful than the never ending complaints on a small read forum here and posting stories about other schools. Worry about yourself for once and try to act for yourself.

You will feel much better off doing this once you have chosen to get this off your chest in the proper manner.

No more excuses, go and do it. You are not powerless.

Good luck.

Comment by Robbie on 19th January 2024 0524::

Robbie I think you are right - the IP system doesn't seem to be as foolproof as it used to be, which is why I continue to give my email address as some sort of proof that all I write comes from me, though I suspect a few people still think I am "Mr. Dando" and about six other characters!. So be it. I know I am only me.

Let me say straight off I was really sorry to read about your grandparents - I lost my family early, but to illness - a sudden shock like you had must have caused unimaginable distress - even worse than illness in it's swiftness - you are half prepared for the death of somebody in poor health for a long time. . I can't imagine how it ,must have affected you.

As regards Mr Hind's comments. Perhaps I was wrong, but I did feel that there was an element of a ticking off from teacher, plus the implication I had been lying. I won't rehearse the entire message just this short quote will suffice:

"As for this nonsense about looking up boys shorts while they climb ropes and all that kind of thing, it really is just complete imagination in nearly all cases.

Why would a PE teacher even wish to waste his time doing this? PE teachers see hundreds of boys in changing rooms each week, they don't have to try hard to see what anyone looks like, they've got boys willies literally in front of them day after day if the school showers, like mine does. So ask yourself why any teacher needs to play such silly games like staring up shorts, when they've got every boy in their class parading most of what he's got before their own eyes without much need to try and see in any kind of furtive manner."

I am just surprised that those last six lines didn't induce an accusation from one of my complainants - if noticing a fully dressed young man of 17/18 has a beard God alone knows what they would have made of those observations, but luckily for DH it has been a "gang up on Alan" week/month/year . Just imagine if I had been their author!.

As I attempted to explain to him, it really DID happen and Roberts boasted to us about what he did (only when no other school staff were present of course. or younger lads - 14+ was his especial interest). With his sort it was all about control and cheap thrills. Why does it concern me? - well, we had not one but two perverted teachers at the same time (Royal Liberty who I have highlighted on here are even unluckier since they had three - at last count). My best mate at school had some really shocking experiences with Roberts, because at the time he was very good at sports. I am not going to rehearse what happened to him, in case it inspires yet more salacious muck about me, but suffice it to say he turned to drink and drugs in his late teens. He used to confide in me when he was sober, I am not saying (how could I know?) if Roberts was the sole reason for this, but it must have been a contributory factor. It also, on a personal level, make you very suspicious about others. Probably one of the reasons I work for myself, and haven't taken a holiday in several years is the
total disinclination to be under anybody's thumb.No work, no pay. I was lucky never to have a bully boss like Roberts or Boreham (the other rotten apple in our barrel), but I wouldn't be prepared to risk it. So that sort of early experience CAN have a lasting effect. In my case, a good one, I think, in regards to working ethic. I genuinely wonder what damage the repulsive music teacher who has a thing about 5 to 8 year olds will have on them in later life, or the boys subjected to physical abuse at Royal Liberty. I was (perhaps I am genuinely naive) absolutely dumfounded to find out that this sort of industrial abuse can go on in today's computerised, "Big Brother is watching you" world. I would also say it doesn't say much for those very young boys parents to continue to send their 5/8 year olds to a music teacher who now has a criminal conviction for grim matters of an appalling nature (he is a private teacher, the P.E teachers at Royal Liberty in the state system). They have a choice in regard to the music teacher. (the parents - not the children) I am just glad I was largely self-taught and only had minimal contact with a music teacher, who was entirely straight, in every sense of that word.

Was I wrong to answer DH in the way I did?. Perhaps. Probably. but was he, as you suggested , being "friendly"? - not in my book, if you doubt the truthfulness of what you are being told in good faith. I didn't detect a friendly tone. It just made me wonder what his response would be if one of his pupils made a similar allegation against one of his teaching colleagues. Would he just dismiss it as a lie or "nonsense"? - only he can answer that. Personally, I believe there is never smoke without fire, and I would not just dismiss it so lightly. Perhaps my response wasn't politic, and it it offended anybody, including yourself or him, then I am sorry. But, Robbie you sort of suggest that I might "enjoy victim status". I think you will agree with me my "F*** you" attitude, (which I doubt few on HW would disagree I possess!) which I apply to all areas of my life dispels that idea. I do feel real and genuine concern for lads like myself, then or now, who are unable to express themselves in the way I am able to do. I ,might have gone to a dump that was a disgrace even to the run down area where I lived, but there is more to me than that. I am more or less self-educated. I won, the school didn't, So, no, I am no victim, nor have I ever considered myself to be.



I hope you and others continue to post, The day may come when I cease to post, but I will not be run out of town by a couple of silly, harrumphing old men making the most sordid allegations against me, in very colourful language.. I hope this reply, though long is proportionate , but honestly when you are called a paedophile and a pervert by two old men who don't know you (and let's face it seem somewhat eccentric) - I think that is going a bit too far. But I seem to be the only one who thinks so.!

Just one last point, if I may, I did receive an email from somebody wanting to know why I only employed "boys" between the ages of 16/18. The answer is simple. It was a Saturday casual job, involving lifting metal objects - servers and the like, When we started Sun Microsystems servers were very bulky. for example and there was electro mechanical equipment, often dirty dusty and oily. These were often lads who didn't want to work in a supermarket, or had been turned down for such work, or only wanted work on occasional Saturdays. No girl ever wanted the job, but if one had, and she had been prepared to put her shoulder into it, she would have been welcome. I do remember one lad was surprised I called him by his forename, because, apparently at school he was always called by his surname only by all teachers. - In 2010!. Like I have said before do teachers still live in the 1950s?

Since the topic of bare skin running came up last year, I’ve been interested to try it but I haven’t run outside for ages. Normally before my gym sessions I use the cross trainer but after discussion with my PT, I moved to a treadmill. Quite a few leg massages later, I’m capable now of keeping a steady 14-15km/hour over about thirty minutes and so he says it’s time to give it a go so in the next week, I’m going running with my PT a couple of times in addition to my normal gym sessions. He’s not fully committed to the idea of getting his shirt off outside yet but I suspect he’ll come round. Anyway, I’m looking forward to it.

Now, to digress. In my line of work, it’s quite common to set an elephant trap for someone to fall into. This board was becoming utterly toxic, it has always had elements of that, where people were making sensible posts and shouted down and I’ve been on the receiving end of that on several occasions in the past, along with the regular allegation that I was posting under multiple names.

I know I wasn’t using multiple names however over the last three months of last year it reached new levels of nastiness aimed at me and others and some of the posts were quite frankly defamatory along with, again, the tedious allegations that I was posting under multiple names which I wasn’t all coming from someone who I firmly believe was posting under multiple names (why else would he be so obsessed with the idea, it had never occurred to me to do that) and that same person appeared to be orchestrating the nastiness using multiple names including posts deliberately misquoting people and even when that was pointed out, making the misquotes worse, using multiple names and following it up with more names doing similar things to a point where what was being quoted was out of all relationship to the reality of what had been said and the original poster was being defamed.

I showed some of this to my wife who knows more about this sort of thing than I do and she was particularly annoyed at some of the things that were being said about me which she knew to be downright lies. As I said at the time, I’m not a retired school master living in France and I never have been, I’m a barrister living in Hertfordshire. Equally, I know no other poster on this board personally but only last week someone was referred to as my ‘friend’ by someone trying to suggest something unpleasant and it was made by someone who obviously observes this board hour by hour with a nasty response for anyone he doesn’t agree with. We have seen a great deal of this in the last week.

So the elephant trap. Well, I meant what I said back in December and my wife is still keeping an eye on what is being posted here but the elephant is in the trap for all to see as a result of the issue of IP addresses and their at least part publication. Everyone can now only post in their own name or risk being caught out and shown up for what they are, a multi-name poster posting the same nastiness to and about other posters.

The noise has calmed down and the nastiness which continues the previous theme is only now, as all can clearly see, coming from one place only and it’s clear for all to see. Were it not, I suspect my last post and a few made since Christmas would have attracted the same barrage of abuse as they were previously. Other posters have made posts in the course of the last week which has dug the elephant trap deeper and while I sought no assistance, it has cleared the picture for all to see. I attracted a nasty post, very quickly from the person who had always been the chief suspect of the nasty orchestration of posts others have done the same in the course of the last week almost without exception.

Add to that the utter obsession with abuse including repeatedly posting links to stories about it that are of interest to no one and to which no one has responded and you have a nasty, toxic, unhealthy poster who ogles at school children and I note the point that he wishes them to be adults because that in some way assuages his guilt for his wrong doing.

I would just ask then, since people can now post only in their own name and we’ve had several posts in the course of the last week that would have definitely attracted a barrage of abusive responses in times past and those posters have (and possibly without realising it) added to the elephant trap this week by expressing their frustration, why is it so quiet and where have all those other names gone that have been a party to the systematic abuse of posters in the past. They all seem to have vanished into thin air and somehow, I doubt will be back.

Stand forward Alan Giles, you’re guilty as charged many times over and there’s no army of shouters and blusterers running to your defence and now you are finally caught in a nice, deep elephant trap for all to see.
Before you start retaliating and posting more foul abuse and accusations just remember, you are being very comprehensively tracked and if you continue, you will hear a lot more about it, your history and more will be displayed for all to see and there is lots of it.

To others, please keep posting, leave the elephant in the trap for all to see and get back to a good discussion about fitness, health, gym and happy times past.

It looked to me that the teacher took a lot of effort early in the morning before he started work to offer some very well meaning advice to Alan on these pages, he did not have to do that to a complete stranger.

Sometimes advice comes from friends in ways we don't really want to hear and I think this was a good case in point actually.

I'm really very shocked at the hostile reply that came back to the PE teacher who made that effort. Nathan you wrote a fine post.

You are judging a modern teacher by the standards of your own one Alan. Why are you letting a bad teacher from 40 or more years ago to continue to play on your mind and upset you so greatly? Do you really wish to feel like this for the rest of your life and give a bad teacher from many years ago such immense power to control you like this?

There are genuine people here who have sought to be useful to you and offer help but I do hope you are not one of those people who simply enjoys their victim status rather than wishing to move onto more positive areas in life.

Many people have come through traumatic times in life in so many ways and it has ended up being the making of them as better more resilient people. It's not easy but can be done. I lost both my young grandparents and in a car crash when I was just 22 and thought my life was over. It wasn't, I used the that to power me on to greater things and work through the pain. A drunk driver ended their lives in a fleeting moment and never even served time for it. That's how easy life can vanish out of nowhere, so make the most of it. Make that move today. You can do it, you are stronger than you will ever realise, most of us are. Human beings are amazing.

Although a decent attempt I don't think the IP system will address the issues that concerned people. IP addresses alter frequently based on many issues, I see Alan you've already had about four so far. It means little actually.

But if this standard keeps up and nothing changes then like others have already said, I will choose to leave the website for good. I see many missing regular names already and who can blame them.

Unlike the PE teacher who was beginning his day I am now finishing my media night shift at 5am and off on my way home after a long night.

I give everyone my best wishes for the year ahead and hope for better debate, and that includes you Alan and the PE teacher and others.

If I get a similar reply to Nathan Hind I will no longer post.

Comment by Paul 18th January 2023 at 22.23

Paul, I am very happy for you that the remarks I am getting give you so much pleasure. So you think by proxy I am a "weak, whinging, wet whimp" , do you - or at least you imagine you think that is what your late PE master would have said. Well, we are all entitled to our own opinion,

I would, though, just ask you to consider this. All my posts are made under my own name, I always provide my email address as proof of my bona fides, so that anyone who wishes to contact me can do so. When I make an accusation I back it up with a printed reference. For instance, just this week in our local newspaper, we were confronted with this:

https://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/24053715.hornchurch-paedophile-choirmaster-still-teaching-kids/

Another teacher - a music one this time. I apologise for any teacher reader who feels I am besmirching his profession, but remember, I am not a journalist I didn't write the story. I was not one of his pupils, but don't you think the fact that 5-8 year olds were involved is disgusting and that he is able to go on teaching after conviction, just as Quinlan in the other case did. makes it even more so?. As I have previously explained I feel these things deeply having had two teachers with similar proclivities, and one of them inflicted severe damage on an old schoolfriend of mine - the other inflicted damage on all of us at one time or another. To see it still going on today despite all the old crap of "safeguarding" and CRB checks is genuinely shocking and intolerable to me.,

I know it is winter and everyone needs a hobby, but what I do take exception to, is the fact that two old men, one of whom cheerfully regaled us with his stories of caning boys in his former profession, just weeks ago, had the cheek to refer to me as "a child voyeur" of peddling "perverted filth" and "obsessed with children". The faux outrage is almost laughable, especially as he hides behind his screen name in France. Another, in some unspecified location, can't wait to rush on here to tell us how many lads he saw without shirts (in the middle of one of the coldest January's in 40 plus years, according to the Met office), and his hyperbole reaches very vulgar conclusions, including a masturbatory allusion, and allegations of hiding behind "net curtains" (twice - obviously they have some strange significance for him). What is my "crime"? - just my observation that some older school pupils, who wait at a bus stop just a few yards from where I am working have beards. Prince Harry has a beard - by these elderly gents logic, does that mean I have some sexual interest in Prince Harry?. It was just an observation, yet you, Hind and several others have not suggested these over-the-top responses are in any way disproportionate. It is only myself that is at fault. Sorry, but when I am hit unjustifiably, I hit back.

It is open season on me, OK - as I said we are all entitled to our opinions, but mine is that some of you are being rather hypocritical The only reason I mentioned the beards was to illustrate my point that treating such lads as "children" is one of the reasons that there is so much truanting these days, I was making the point (and I run the risk of being accused of perversion yet again by the usual suspects) that today's older teenager matures a lot quicker than those of previous generations. I have employed 16-18 year olds in the past, and I have heard their complaints about the way they get treated at school. Some teachers still seem to think it is 1955. They do not want to be patronised (as indeed a current teacher had the effrontery to try on me in my 50s just a couple of days ago - go back a few messages to see it if you have a mind to)

I don't see why I have to justify my working arrangements to anybody, least of all to keyboard warriors, but this observation was based on the fact that I am receiving and despatching goods from couriers who happen to come early in the mornings at a time when school students are around. Perhaps I should keep my eyes closed while so doing so I can see nothing that reduces old men to apoplexy.

I hope the owner of the site, in the interests of fair play, sees fit to publish this message. He seems to have no compunction in printing really vulgar comments against me, but has, on occasion, "forgotten"to publish a perfectly polite rebuke to quite scabrous messages against me.

Meanwhile, Paul you can think what you like about me. I know the truth, and it is far from the hateful, twisted motives ascribed to me by a couple of old timers feigning outrage.

Now on my third IP address!

Alan, I will repeat that you are now on the receiving end of the sort of commenting you have and still do dole out to others over years here when anyone posted anything your agenda of abuse everywhere was disagreed with and if you don’t like it, then you can of course leave as you have driven out many over the years. I haven’t read anything that sounded untrue. I was on the receiving end of it myself for having committed the mortal sin of enjoying PE at school.

Perhaps you were one of the lads our PE teacher used to refer to as the W lads.

Weak, whining, whinging, wet, wimps and there were many more. Please stop inflicting your problems on others.

Further abusive response expected.

FFS! This is turning into Groundhog Day with a vengeance. Give us a rest from all of your excessively-documented posturing.

¨Mr Chips an obious psedonym, writes:

¨he is a child voyeur at the very least, looking at school children, noting their physical features and then posting on line about them. I’ve never participated in any forum with that kind of perverted filth before and it would be nice it a stop was put to it.

He seems to claim that because they were clothed it was acceptable, it isn’t, it’s disgusting. That poster was a key player in the abuse I was on the end of but now we find out what he’s really like, obsessed with children. Maybe his claim that under eighteen year olds are adults is to justify his attraction to them and behaviour around them. ¨


I invite you to repeat those highly libelous (and untrue) remarks under your real name.

Comment by: Barney on 17th January 2024 at 14:56


¨ your twitching net curtains with one hand and no doubt having a tug with the other and then posting about it here. Utterly disgusting.¨

The owner of this site might not care to admit it, but this is surely the coarsest statement ever published on this site.

Back in the day and it now seems many years ago, I was a keen rope climber in the school gym, it wasn’t easy and I burned my hands more than a few times in getting better at it but it had a great sense of achievement when you got to the top and safely back down again and of course after burning your hands a couple of times, the last thing you ever did was want to slide. I don’t recall ever thinking that our PE master was positioned to look up our shorts when standing underneath though, it seems rather a perverse thing to conclude, I'm certain the master had more to think about.

As a master who coached rugby with a couple of training sessions a week, if I had wanted to look at boys without clothes on then I had plenty of opportunity as they changed and showered but as Nathan Hind has rightly said, you see so much naked flesh in those circumstances that you really don’t take any notice any more than I took notice of my fellow rugby players as I showered and changed with them or indeed the guys I now join each week for a cold water swim and some of them swim naked but then c’est la France.

That brings me nicely to cold water, I’m getting addicted to cold water swimming. Like Barney has reported, as you get older, cold is an incredibly effective way to reduce the joint and tissue inflammation of exercise which sadly does occur more easily as you get older – you younger guys have been warned – keep making the most of exercise, it does get harder but I won't be giving in any time soon.

We also have a place here which offers cryotherapy and I’ve been a couple of times now midweek between swims after cycling. All I can say is that I came out feeling much better than I went in and had the same sense of exhilaration as I get from cold water swimming.

I’ll just touch on one more point before I finish. In the weeks leading up to Christmas, my posts too were twisted, misquoted and twisted some more in an utter barrage of abuse I received for truthfully answering questions asked by people who I believed were sincere in their requests. I would say than none of the abuse came from the questioners but anything I said was met by such a lot of noise and unpleasantness, that I gave up for a while.

Things seem to have calmed down with the exception of one poster continuing to make some very nasty posts but who has tripped up to admit that he is a child voyeur at the very least, looking at school children, noting their physical features and then posting on line about them. I’ve never participated in any forum with that kind of perverted filth before and it would be nice it a stop was put to it.

He seems to claim that because they were clothed it was acceptable, it isn’t, it’s disgusting. That poster was a key player in the abuse I was on the end of but now we find out what he’s really like, obsessed with children. Maybe his claim that under eighteen year olds are adults is to justify his attraction to them and behaviour around them. They are children, as someone pointed out, they can’t apply for a credit card and so, are children.

I’ll also add that there is a huge difference between that and noting a class of lads out bare skin running on a cold day. One is incredibly general and something you would observe in passing, the other is a detailed look and inspection of the children. One is completely innocent and acceptable and given the interest here in bare skin activity completely acceptable and relevant. The other is going down the path to criminality. Or maybe the poster is there already.

There were still bare skin lads out again this morning and if anything it’s colder than yesterday.

FWIW, switching off a router will usually but not always change an IP address but also, if you use a PC, a tablet or phone on your own wi-fi, each one will have a different one. Equally, if you post from a different venue as I am today, the address will be different of course.

Nathan Hind on 17th January 2024 at 06:37

Thank you for your highly sensible and comprehensive post. It makes great sense and is very thoughtful, I appreciated reading it. I’m interested in the cold thing too though I’d be more tempted to try cold water than bare skin outside. After old gits gym – my session with mates each morning, we all shower in cold water because it calms the joints down after stressing them with weights. It works very well. For some a cold shower would be a punishment, for us it's pain relief.

Alan on 16th January 2024 at 16:46

Once again you choose to misrepresent what I actually said quite clearly and repeated when you misrepresented what I had said before Christmas and you keep doing it. Is it ignorance or just utter stupidity or as I’ve seen suggested before, do you need professional help?

This is the last time I will respond to you, post whatever bilge you like about me, it doesn’t matter to me but makes a clear statement about your unhealthy obsession. I know I don’t have any perverse interest in boys unlike you, gawping, your twitching net curtains with one hand and no doubt having a tug with the other and then posting about it here. Utterly disgusting.

Just for the record, I'm already on my 2nd IP address of the year, without doing anything. I think it resets every time the router gets turned off and in again.

Nathan Hind 17/1/2023 0637

Mr Hind - you are quite right about my age. Excuse me, if I am equally as frank with you , as were with me. I am rather older than you, I expect, so how would you know what I and my classmates experienced (endured might be a more apt word) back in the bad old days?. How dare you presume to talk down to me in your "schoolmasterly" voice. I am not one of your pupils. You might not like to hear things said about some of your predecessors in your profession, but I assure you Roberts, the man I am talking about did exactly what I have mentioned in my previous post. He was known for it amongst my peers - and he himself made no secret of the fact that he "inspected" us in the way I have told you.

Have you never heard of voyeuristic homosexuals? Because that is what Roberts was. I am sure you believe homosexuals don't exist in your world, but you have to remember that back then, it wasn't the in-thing it has become in recent years with vicars, teachers, politicians and other would-be do-gooders coming out of the woodwork waving their rainbow flags, advertising their predilections . Who knows, under the next government it might well become compulsory. . If a teacher (or whomever it might have been) felt he was in danger of being outed, back then, he would use his authority to quash it, but such was Roberts vanity that he almost boasted about it ("if there is any trouble it is me they will believe, not you"). You might find it inconvenient to believe, but it is true. Quinlan, remember, was teaching well into the 2000s.(with two criminal convictions for indecency under his belt). How the HELL could he have been allowed to have a second ´career´ in an all boys school, in the same LEA, after his first, custodial, sentence? (rhetorical question). Could it be that assaults against boys are treated less seriously than those towards girls?. I don't know about Roberts, he might well be dead by now, for all I know or care.

I don't need any advice, thank you, about keeping fit. I keep fit by working (lots of movement and lifting heavy equipment) and not over-eating and not indulging in drugs or drink - though the tone of your incredibly patronising and condescending message might drive any reasonable man to drink.



I notice it is only me you direct your advice to - not the inflammatory posts made by others - the old man who hangs around school playing fields, for example, who accused me of "gawping" at fully dressed pupils who I see every day at a bus stop a matter of yards from where I am working. There is an example of bloody hypocrisy, but you have nothing to say about that, nor other allegations made by other vexatious posters - it is just me. Still, I can't complain, or I will have to endure another of your lectures, and be accused of victimhood again.

He who can, does; he who cannot, - teaches. My caveat to that remains that homosexuals should not be allowed anywhere near a school PE department, even if they were former Olympians. It would stop the Quinlans and Roberts of this world, who, as you suggest, I am sure still exist. Even if they were the only two, it would still be two too many.

I have always considered that teachers have a frankly vastly inflated idea of their own importance, quite divorced from reality. Thank you for confirming it so openly. As for any pupils going to you privately if they have problems - given your response to me here, I don't blame them for not wasting their breath, just to be given the sort of frankly wishy-washy pep talk you have attempted here. What practical help could you be to them, given your attitude, if that is how you talk to an adult, God knows what your manner would be to a kid.?. As you seem to appreciate the status quo so much, what good would it be if they did talk to you?, what would it achieve?. I suggest damn all.

Let me end by wishing you a good 2024 as well. It would be nice to think you might be more even-handed in your condemnation in future, but I won't hold my breath..Forgive my annoyance, but I had my guts-full of teachers years ago - and their condescension - so I don't need them now.

So, that Christmas truce didn't last long, did it. "Footballs away, lads, and back to the trenches smartish"!

Have people learnt absolutely nothing after the events before Christmas on this thread?

Come on now, let's not start repeating all that again.

Alan, it's long past time to stop this never ending agenda you persist with. We get the points but we don't need them forever rammed down our throats time and again. Know when to finally stop. I've been reasonably kind to you and but you are now trying the patience of the most saintly of us.

We know there are dodgy PE teachers out there and always were, possibly still are. You are not telling anyone here anything they don't know. The impact of your points would have been far more effective if you had used them sparingly.

As for this nonsense about looking up boys shorts while they climb ropes and all that kind of thing, it really is just complete imagination in nearly all cases.

Why would a PE teacher even wish to waste his time doing this? PE teachers see hundreds of boys in changing rooms each week, they don't have to try hard to see what anyone looks like, they've got boys willies literally in front of them day after day if the school showers, like mine does. So ask yourself why any teacher needs to play such silly games like staring up shorts, when they've got every boy in their class parading most of what he's got before their own eyes without much need to try and see in any kind of furtive manner.

Come on now, let's just get real about this once and for all. I'm absolutely fed up with having my profession never endingly rubbished like this and lessons never being learned. I've tried to be very reasonable with you but it just seems to fall on deaf ears doesn't it.

Are you prepared to accept what people tell you in all seriousness and genuinely or not. Later this morning my first class will be a gym one and I'll supervise a group of showers involving 40 boys, along with a colleague. I sure don't need to play weird games in the gym to try and view them underneath clothing when I've got that amount of naked lads surrounding me at the end of a lesson.

Most boys don't mind being like this amongst each other even in the year 2024, I hate to break it to you, and their teacher being able to see a few dozen lads like that with does not a pervert make for one moment, except in the mind of those with some very strange ideas. It is quite possible for a PE teacher to look upon a group of naked lads after PE, or before, without sexualising them and just taking them at face value for what they are, a bunch of boys without anything on doing what you'd expect in the place you'd expect them to do it.

Before Christmas you asked me about something to do with why some lessons end up with the class bare chests while others don't. There is no specific reason for this and I suggest that would have always been the same for teachers going back decades too. Often we do fitness regimes and games that suit bare chests because they involve a lot of intense activity that produces sweat to cite one example, but I am fully entitled to ask my PE class to do the gym bare chests for everyone if I so wish and actually I rather prefer it that way rather than the times when some of the class are asked to remove tops and others keep them on for skins and shirts games which is not my own personal taste for PE but comes from on top with my immediate head boss who dictates such.

I have no reason to have to defend my job and how I do it when all I am doing is my job to the best of my ability. I'm coming up to nearly 10 years doing this job now and compared to some of the older men who did this job long before I was born I think I must be quite reasonable. I've not spent my life with my eyes closed and have heard first hand from older men about the old days of PE long ago and some did leave a lot to be desired.

Just remember this, I've said it more than once on here in the last year. Anyone can come to me or others with their problems privately, or openly if they so wish. It rarely happens. I cannot force someone to say anything to me can I. So if I've got someone who is scared witless about being made to take his shirt off in PE or having to remove all his clothing to shower briefly with others but he will not tell me this but keeps it all to himself then what am I supposed to do about it?

Now I've been so reasonable it's unreal but I can never really win, there is always yet another pointed question.

In the end, even if you are very shy and self conscious about your appearance the best thing is just to get fully stuck in and try hard. It works. I know full well I am only speaking for a period very recently going back to just 2015 and years earlier may be somewhat different but I still think the general principles of what I am saying apply.

Now Alan, you seem like a man in his fifties, you say you have never personally been abused directly so why are you simply unable to let go? It's not good for you to keep on going around within the very same never ending loop like this.

It may not feel like it when you read this but I am still trying my best to be so reasonable with you.


I want to mention the bareskin/bare chests running fad that does seem to be taking a hold. I'm not sure if social media has a part to play in why this is happening but I see it as a quite interesting development and positive for those who wish to do so. It clearly has health and wellbeing benefits and doesn't have to be done in just hot weather, cold conditions can actually be quite beneficial for a number of ailments actually. It's not something we would actually do at school outside as part of an outdoors PE lesson at this time of year and would be frowned upon if anyone tried to do so as a command to a class but I'm gaining interest and have been wondering if it would be something worthy of an after school club situation for those who would like to try something a little different but nothing has been said yet. I certainly don't think it is something that should be considered a young persons pastime and can apply to all ages. Men and and boys who have good well kept bodies are most likely to wish to take part in such things one imagines but any body type should be acceptable, fat or thin.

This is the trouble with this thread over the time I have read it this past year and a half or so, it's like the male human body has somehow been stigmatised, and why should it be? It's nothing to be ashamed of and if people think you look good without your top on don't get funny about it, feel good about it, and at school at the moment there are absolutely no boys at all that I take for PE who have any reason to be ashamed of the way they look, not one.

More body positivity please in 2024, and Alan, get doing some exercise to improve your own self esteem, it works and will do wonders for you and stop worrying about a long gone past and grasp the future ahead of you and stop playing the eternal victim.

Once you do that you'll gain so much more than you realise. I've seen it in other adults younger than me, much older than me and some youngsters too.

Please don't spend the rest of your life wallowing like this. I'm trying to help you by saying this.

May I wish everyone a slightly belated new year and keep it POSITIVE!

Time for me to get ready for work after eating my bran flakes and orange juice.

Well it was nice for the brief period this board went back to school PE memories.

I'm out.

Going back to 'Pirates' - In the 1960s the gym in my Grammar School (which dated from 1896) also served as the Assembly Hall, exam hall, theatre & concert hall, etc. It was a high room with rafters & trusses holding up the roof. 'Pirates' was played there, but I think it may have stopped after one session where the last two boys 'in' were chasing each other over the beams at what seemed like a great height! (To cheers from 'us' and looks of horror from the PE teacher).

Regarding the IP addresses - I see that one poster has posted with four(?) separate IP addresses - I'm sure there's nothing wrong with this, but I haven't had a chance to speak to my friendly 'nerd'. Does this mean that anyone wanting to post under a different identity can just move to a different 'network'?

Barney 16/1/24 1324

And a happy new year to you, too, Barney. You have some chutzpah, it has to be admitted. I apparently "gawp at children", by observing facial hair on older "children", who are fully dressed on their way to the bus stop near where I work (and not through lace curtains - I have storage space backing on to the road where couriers pick up and deliver goods, and I am often out there in the mornings ). Some of us work during the day, and not necessarily near playing fields.

This said by the man who habitually hangs around school playing fields, to see how many lads are not wearing shirts, and by his own admission , had the effrontery to question a PE teacher about the boys showering arrangements!

Recognising facial characteristics is not unusual - how else would we recognise postmen, shop assistants, customers etc?.

As regards our pervy Mr R., it was well known by the lads in my class that he looked up at us climbing ropes - how come otherwise lads who broke his rule (a rather kinky rule IMO about not wearing underwear) got called down and made to go and remove underwear, often getting a a slap as they did so?,. Anyway, he admitted as much even if we hadn't figured it out. How else does Britain's answer to Joe Biden imagine he knew?.

Please Barney, make your New Years Resolution not to judge everybody else down to your own sadly low standards. If I am "gawping", what are you doing, eh?

I hope Matron had a nice hot cup of Bovril waiting for you when you got back from your morning stroll.

Walking back from my old gits gym session this morning, the temperature with wind chill was -3c. As I passed the school there were two classes of lads out running circuits of the field and I would say there were still about 20% of them running without shirts. Very brave lads IMO. Bare skin running clearly has a following. Continuing my walk home I met another man out, he must have been late twenties or early thirties and he wasn’t wearing a shirt either. Clearly there are some hardy men around.

On the age of majority, just one thought. Littler may be an accomplished player but if he were to apply for a credit card, he would be turned down because, legally he’s a child. That’s one of the acid tests of whether someone is a child or an adult and no doubt with his winnings, Littler is a boy with money but that’s what he is, a boy. He also looks like he’s eaten a bit too much lard and might do well to participate in a sport that gets him some exercise.

On the other matter raised recently, gawping at children, no doubt from behind a twitching net curtain, commenting on it and giving a physical description of them is very distasteful. I was utterly pilloried by the same poster for merely observing that a group of lads were bare skin running and I certainly didn’t note any detail on it.

I think we see here, one poster’s very unhealthy obsession with children as he also claims he was sent to climb ropes so his gym master could look up his shorts, how utterly bizarre. I can remember climbing ropes at school and I never for a moment imagined that the gym master was looking up my shorts while I did it, I would think he had far more on his mind with thirty lads in the gym than whether a lad was wearing underpants or not. There’s a very disturbed mind at work here.

I’m another one who liked climbing ropes but it was a scary and nerve racking thing to do particularly as you got to the top and your arms were feeling a bit weak. It stood me in good stead for joining the navy where things like that were in our normal gym routines.

Alan, you might say that Original Andy has given you a small taste of the sort of treatment you have handed out to others over years and years while attempting to turn this board into a discussion about abuse while abusing those who disagree with you and you still can’t resist your bad behaviour. Well done Original Andy.