Burnley Grammar School

Comment by: Hugh on 29th October 2023 at 11:17
Nathan Hind on 29th October 2023 at 01:51
I wouldn't be willing to share my professional details because who knows what sort of allegations might be made about me by one poster in particular. I certainly don't wish to spend my days refuting allegations at hearings rather than treating my patients.




Allegations about what and made by whom, Alan here?

Your comment cannot be a serious concern and leaves me sceptical about your background, which is a shame because I tend to agree with your points and have taken you as a serious contributor. This answer reveals enough for me.

But Tanya you wouldn't have been placed in that position in the first place would you, as a girl.

Your PE teacher Timothy is the type who would have really got on my wick there for doing that. There really were some bloody minded types. Your well kept front gardens line made me think of Hyacinth Bucket seeing a group from the local school pounding the tarmac past the house. Imagine what she would have said, the curtains would be twitching.

James & Mark J.

Go to the blog link of the whole site and you can see the site is managed by "Brian" and there is an email available. Last comments seem to be from 2020 though. I guess it's "Brian" reading these and deciding who gets posted up. Agree, wouldn't hurt for the site owner to drop a line on his busiest thread would it.

Hugh can you not see how it's a bit rich to ask somebody who already has their full name and occupation out there to add even further details whilst at the same time you make your case for not doing so with anything at all. It doesn't really work does it if you want to be a trusted source.

James tonight at 7.27pm makes some good points there. I don't think this site is purely automated is it. Someone is checking our comments before they come up. Would they care to acknowledge themselves, it would be nice.

I spent six years at secondary up to A levels from 1974 until 1980, four years normal school and two in the sixth form. Four of those years from 1974 until 1978 involved at least two PE lessons each week and now and again a third was dropped in.

It was shirts off in PE from the moment I arrived, right up to O level time. I didn't even bring a top to school on gym PE days, nobody did. We could wear shorts of our choice in any colour. I think there was a mix of bare feet and trainers in the gym, so whichever suited. I wore trainers. But the shirts off rule was universal and applied to everyone in PE who was a boy.

I can remember one day that was really rather lovely and we were in the gym one day and our PE teacher decided it was far too nice to remain inside and so we went back out the gym to the adjacent courtyard and started limbering up with him for a run instead, in our shorts and shirtless, one or two boys even in their bare feet, and off we went filing behind him for a jog around the local neighbourhood streets, along footpaths past lots of well kept gardens, avoiding the occasional dog walker or pedestrian and even having to stand and wait to cross roads for traffic as we went. The regular cross country route we took with another guy when outside (in tops) this most certainly was not. I actually thought it was quite a laugh but we did have one or two cry babies in PE at the time who made a fuss. I also remember some of the girls in the nearby English block looking out the window and laughing at us when we set off from the courtyard. Thereafter I was always prepared to expect the unexpected and we did the same thing probably another five times.

Having read back the last 20 pages on here this evening I see a lot about shirtless PE and also shower fear. I think shirts free gym might have been seen as more normal than wearing something then. Then the words I first heard about showering when I started at secondary school remain clear, there were 2 teachers standing in our changing room and one of them told us we had to shower at school from now on after PE and that he didn't want to have to put up with any nonsense about it from anyone, that we all looked the same. Taking just 3 seconds too long to get in the showers was considered timewasting and got you a clip on the back of your head too when I began.

I'm not sure many of us would have ever confided much in our PE teachers if I am truthful about it. They just didn't seem the type of people you would want to do that with. We just did as we were told when we were told to do it and got on with it to the best of our ability. The PE teachers were all basically fine but very much of their time I think, which by today's new rules makes some seem like little sh*ts!

Yes Chris G, well said. There was a period just over a year ago with this going on for a while.

Unlike many forums where posts appear immediately they are sent, this forum often takes many hours to place a post and sometimes they fail to appear at all. So my question is why are clearly troublesome gaslighting posts and highly personalised comments being tolerated, obviously read prior to appearance and then published by the history site owner, and even more interestingly why is there never any interaction from this site owner/moderator among any of these discussions like many forums do to keep good order.

Chris G on 29th October 2023 at 16:46

Hear, hear. But the problem is that only certain memories are allowed, only bad ones and no one was allowed to have enjoyed school and heaven forbid anyone liked PE.

Given the pic, when you disallow those things, discussion gets a bit difficult when poster after poster sharing innocent memories are recently as this last week is accused of any interest being inappropriate and stopping to watch sport is 'loitering'.

I just want that behaviour which goes back through 184 pages and since 2009 to stop. I don't think that's asking too much?

Ladies and (predominantly} Gentlemen! This site is meant to be devoted to documenting English History in photographs, so can we please stop all of the bickering and inter-personal aggro that seems to be dominating comments just lately.

By the same token, could the site owner use his/her best efforts to restore some sense of civil behaviour, and correct the irritating typo to one of the photographs - It's "County" not "Counry"

Alan on 28th October 2023 at 15:33

Yes, I remember you wanting to email me but why on earth would I want to engage in email with a troll like you? Goodness only knows what would have happened to my data.

Funny you remember that but not the positives about Hugh and that his identity was confirmed by others at the same time. Then it doesn't suit your agenda does it?

Your suggestion that someone share their professional status here is the sign of a drowning man, desperate to cling to any piece of flotsam you can think of and when he refuses, again, take aim at his credibility. Why not challenge others to do the same? Oh, that doesn't suit the Alan agenda does it because Hugh has called out your behaviour for all to see.

Comment by: Hugh on 29th October 2023 at 11:17
Nathan Hind on 29th October 2023 at 01:51

"I wouldn't be willing to share my professional details because who knows what sort of allegations might be made about me by one poster in particular. I certainly don't wish to spend my days refuting allegations at hearings rather than treating my patients. "

As you have attempted a psychological analysis of me on these pages, might I respectfully suggest there is a degree of paranoia in this post?. How many Hugh's are there in the country, practising medicine?. Many thousands I should think. But what am I to know? I am just an ignorant old hobbledehoy who deals in surplus electronics (best prices paid and quotations on request).

It is for Nathan to speak for himself, but in my opinion he has made it very clear where he teaches and made other information freely available. I don't doubt his voracity. As previously mentioned, I gave my name and email address in an attempt to mollify a somewhat abusive keyboard warrior, who persists to this day, and I imagine it could easily be found if you have time and inclination to go back through all these pages. Should you wish to contact me privately please feel free to do so, but I imagine, like the other guy, you prefer to snipe in the background.

Nathan, I have never, at any time, suggested you were anywhere near as bad as our wreck "R", indeed, in this day and age, the pupils themselves would probably have got him out, and my criticism of you has only been that, in common with most teachers, I feel, you treat every lad as if they were exactly the same with the same feelings, though I accept if you are willing to discuss concerns privately with them, then clearly you are not too bad. My mention of that bizarre open showers organisation is that, like naturism, for example, it's adherents seem keen to encourage others into their way of life. probably because to them, it doesn't seem bizarre.

I completely agree with you that if somebody has professional qualifications they should not mind being asked to display them. Clearly, you have nothing to hide, or you would not have been so open. I do not profess to be a doctor (and judging by the conduct of some of them I am very glad I am not!), but I do have a friend who is one (we share a mutual love of music, the sort I used to play), and speaking to him this morning I asked him what his qualifications were, and he quite happily told me: BSc MB BS MSc MD.

See - even an ignoramus like me knows a few brainy people.

Nathan Hind on 29th October 2023 at 01:51

I wouldn't be willing to share my professional details because who knows what sort of allegations might be made about me by one poster in particular. I certainly don't wish to spend my days refuting allegations at hearings rather than treating my patients.

Look back, I was recognised by another poster and I agreed it was me and several more thanked me for the advice I gave them which was hugely beneficial in a world where men's health is a hugely under developed aspect of health care.

I mean this Nathan as the most gentle of challenges back because I read your accounts and take them at face value and you sound excellent at what you do but would you be happy to post your school profile and details of QTS with the TRA for all to see? You could lead on your call by example?

Nathan, at what point do you introduce skins and shirts to the new intake.

Hugh you can solve the doubters by simply placing your GP profile on here as a link as proof. I don't see why that should be a problem as I have given out my own full details on this forum and everyone knows the school I work at and have been able to view everything about me if they wish.

I feel that people who are genuine are always happy to do this, especially when asked. I do hope you can also do so. I always find people who are able to give specifics about what they talk about more interesting. Nobody should fear others checking them out when they speak on a public forum on a certain subject.

Is it not fair that when someone claims something about themselves that they provide some evidence to substantiate it. It would be nice to see more people doing so. I don't think this is compromising anybody's privacy or safety to do so, like I have myself.

I did accuse Alan and others of giving me a hard time over one or two of my own comments about my job but that is free speech for you. I hope I gave back good enough answers. I'm certainly not unhappy about that, I have to handle classes full of teenage boys so one or two critical middle aged men on a forum is no problem at all.

I was unaware that there was anything about the Communal Shower Association website that should cause undue concern. I don't think it had any direct connection to naturism as was suggested but even if it did I'm not sure there is anything too terrible about people who choose that lifestyle.

Michael asked me on 22nd October if PE teachers need to ask for parental consent to allow school showering. The answer to that question is no, there is no direct parental consent needed to be given or asked for in a formal sense in my school. It is 'assumed consent' as all the facts and details are out there and if any of those details cause concern then that is the responsibility of a parent to come forward. I personally wouldn't have any problem with a consent slip needing to be returned but even that could lead to problems and division.

Before I broke up last week I asked some of the new intake how they found their first half term and if they had anything they'd like to say about any aspect of PE over the first six or seven weeks. I made it very clear that any worries can be dealt with quietly out of lesson time privately if anyone ever wishes to discuss anything. I am always available to listen.

Jim Dale as Dr. Kilmore springs to mind more. What a carry on.


(sense of humour please)

Devon Lad on 28th October 2023 at 13:58

Well, no doubt about you being an utter prat!

Gary, Thank you for your message. sadly the friend I mentioned died on December 30th last year, but I was just showing that our school, and the teachers in particular caused certainly a mental scarring, but pace' "Doctor" Hugh not a mental illness. It played on his mind towards the end of his cancer. Incidentally, if that man really is a doctor it just shows the contempt some professionals have for those they consider of a lower order. The way he writes " a list of qualifications which in any event I doubt would be understood" is condescending in the extreme, I am sure we could all understand his branch of the profession, were he to be in it.

There was another lad, who, unlike my late mate Dave and myself was very fond of sports of all sorts, and it was he who was physically abused by "R". He only told me this about eighteen months after we left and I was sworn to secrecy, and the first time `I mentioned it to anybody else was last year to somebody he didn't know, and I know through correspondence of an entirely different sort. I kept the secret for over forty years, and I as I am not in contact with him now, and I'm giving no clues to his identity, I don't feel I have broken the confidence unduly, though clearly I have to the letter. He only told me long after the event because he was afraid of anybody, including his parents, finding out - such was the deep impression R's words always made "if there is any trouble, it is me they will believe not you". He had used those words to us three, and doubtless many others during his career, when they cottoned on to his games and tricks.

I was lucky that I was not "R's" type - I was dark and not very tall or athletic, neither was Dave, but the third lad was, and fair haired to go with it (funny how men with those proclivities have types).

The only agenda I have is to point out that not all teachers are as Mr Chips as they like to make out they are, neither are all nurses "angels" or all doctors monuments to their profession. There are rotten apples in every barrel, including, sadly the police, and certainly among politicians.Let's not just trust them, ipso-facto, because they hold these professions.

We have had a number of people on this site saying how uncomfortable they were made to feel, some of the older ones had much more physical punishment than we did (though as it was towards the tail end of corporal punishment in schools we did experience some, especially from the late and unlamented Mr.Boreham who used the cane like a writer uses a pen - frequently). It is sad to think there are still wrong-us in the teaching profession, and they get away with it because their victims seldom complain until years later.

People who would wish things to return to the good old days as they see them sicken me.It was a charter for the unhinged teacher and their prejudices, like the lad who told us he was given short shrift by his headteacher because his mum was German. However good an RAF man he might have been, he was certainly not cut out for teaching., and he and others ike him should have been weeded out.

Finally, I would just say this. When "Original Andy" started writing his abusive posts about me, I gave my email address and invited him to contact me privately, to save boring the rest of the readers. He failed to do so, despite a second invitation. I don't know what his problem is, or Hugh's, but to be described as a "playground bully" by two complete strangers is a bit thick, when, it seems to me, if I were as sensitive as they are, I could make the same claim about them,

I hope this reply gets through to you, because one I wrote earlier today, after the "good doctor's" previous diatribe failed to make the cut, even though it contained no profane language. Then, you see, I am not a doctor.

Comment by: Des on 27th October 2023 at 11:55
Perhaps he's no more a doctor than Richard Chamberlain was back in the 1960's.


Or Dennis Locorriere - Dr.Hook of the 70s.

Alan on 28th October 2023 at 10:32

Oh dear, as I predicted, more flailing around trying to blame others, making spurious attacks all in an attempt to control the agenda here and kick out at people who are undermining his control.

Of course people are seeing straight through it and out the other side.

Nobody on this forum should be giving anybody else with alleged mental health difficulties a difficult time.

Please just use the power of your arguments to deal with this and not the power of your insults, that will be more effective.


Alan, you are in touch with somebody from your schooldays you say? Would you be able to ask them to add an opinion to back yours up on here. I was thinking about the others at your school and pondering whether if someone else had come on here and made many of the points about your school in the generality whether they would have been met more favourably because of the way they might present it.

Do you actually consider yourself to have an agenda? If so, what is it? Are you infact the one who has been abused in reality. It would explain rather a lot.

So many questions I know, but you do seem quite complex.

"Doctor" Hugh wrote at 0851 on 28th October apropos me:

"I see now the leaking sewer now wants to know my qualifications"

Echoing a similar comment from "Original Andy"

The good "doctor" also adds "ROTFL"

Would a genuine professional person use that sort of term on a public website?.

I leave it for others to judge.

ROTFL

I see now the leaking sewer now wants to know my qualifications, I could list them but how would anyone know it was genuine? You can see the line of attempting to discredit me and all others who don't agree with the Alan agenda rolling out. The playground bully is just what he is.

If you look back though, you will see that I talked at one point about my role as a doc for a rugby team and I was recognised by another poster who was a member of that team and indeed complimented me on what I had done for him. That's more credibility here than a list of qualifications which in any event I doubt would be understood.

The latest post on 27th October 2023 at 17:01 is really a further demonstration that I'm right. There is flailing around attempting to attack everyone and externalising blame for their own failings. It's something you see quite often when you are signing forms for detention under mental health legislation. Fortunately not something that happens often but it's never nice. In addition to the docs, a social worker and an ambulance crew you often have to have the police present to restrain the person. I could see that happening here as false and unfounded allegations are made about all present. The police just put the cuffs on in those circumstances.

Comment by: Ian on 20th October 2023 at 17:15
"Yes, we see each others willies"


The real reason for communal showers fear in school isn't it. I'll admit it was mine. Everyone always skips around this glaringly obvious fact it seems to me.

The same goes for adults in gyms too, like Ian's comment actually was referring to. But the adults choose to be in those gyms, at school you don't.

Alan on 27th October 2023 at 17:01

Dear oh dear, more of Alan's sewage polluting what is otherwise good conversation as ever. On the attack with insults for everyone as he attempts yet again to control the discussion and make it fit his narrative.

How sad he is.

I support Mike's comment at 19.44 today.

I don't agree with those suggesting women should not be participating. Very few women do comment regularly anyway. For example, just recently there were some good comments from Marion about her grandson facing PE at a new school. I see this as a general education forum focused on PE, and boys and girls did this. But if we want to start getting that specific on who should be commenting then perhaps anyone who didn't go to Burnley Grammar should stop saying anything and we can leave it to people such as Rupert recently who actually did.

One for Barney and Marc - Matey Bubble Bath Advert from 1977.

I had these too! What a memory that is. Sharing just like the ad.

https://youtu.be/YqL-2wmF7dw?feature=shared

Greg2: there is certainly a great deal of the actor in teachers, as I suppose there has to be in several professions where you have to "meet the face to meet the face" as they say, but I think it appalling that a man, who, at best was xenophobic, should seek to take out his frustrations on young boys. I know one of our two very bad teachers is now deceased (the"discipline" fetishist), and it was amazing to read the euologies form from people who were quite aware of his "cranky behaviour", as one teacher, long after our school days put it. I only kept in contact with a couple of the lads I went to school with and one very sadly died just after last Xmas, and in his last letter to me he actually mentioned the two men I have mentioned - and this was at a time when he was very (physically) ill. That is the effect he had on us, and as I have also previously mentioned another boy got it far worse than us, as he was actually molested by R.

Hugh: in view of the oft-repeated " professional expertise. " you claim for yourself, perhaps you would be good enough to let us know your qualifications?.

Anon: Strange that you do not feel able to give us your name - I daresay it isn't anything so unique that you would be immediately identified?. John, Bill, Tony?, don't be such a tease, especially when you seek to traduce the character of others.

"OriginalAndy" - don't flatter yourself, you are not that original. I know you enjoy your little potshots, and if it keeps you happy,I wish you joy.

Just to set "Doctor" Hugh's mind at rest, I am not a candidate for a mental institution, I have already said why it concerns me that middle aged and elderly men take such a - strong interest, shall we say?, - of how boys are clothed for PE in 2023, and often regretting the lack of both minimalism in dress and the removal of the ultimate deterrent of the cane. Perhaps it is because it was middle aged and elderly men that caused us problems in our school that I am so sensitive in this matter - and the - as I have mentioned before - no less THAN THREE P.E teachers at the SAME SCHOOL, not three miles from where I live have been exposed as perverts (I have given a link in the past to this disgusting case) and it concerns me that such outrages are still allowed to persist in an era when there is supposed to be protection for both boys and girls.

I do not consider I have given Nathan a hard time - I have precluded him from any suggestion of impropriety, I have merely said that he seems to adopt that "teacher know best and I'll do what I like" attitude that is far too prevalent in both his profession and in politics. One size fits all does not work, has never worked and never will, however convenient it might be to think that is the case.

"Dr. Hugh" implies he is a medical man, and I will be interested in reading his qualifications. Please don't be shy.