Burnley Grammar School

Whenever somebody cites discomfort about a shirtless PE class maybe they should remember Jeffrey and offer thanks they didn't grow up where he did. Now that was pushing the boundaries to the limit and rather unkind and seems to stray into outright nudism/naturism as a school practice, and such things should be considered a personal lifestyle choice not an institutional requirement, don't you think.

In placed this short essay elsewhere about 5 years ago. I now live in the UK.

During the middle years of the last century in the American Midwest pornography was all but unknown (to us boys anyway) and even innocent nudity was taboo. Taboo that is unless it happen to appear in the pages of National Geographic. Without fail even infants were dressed in public. However, under certain very limited conditions, boys fourteen and under were exempt from the nudity prohibition. At that young age we were thought to be sexually innocent and chaste. Grownups felt that young male children didn’t require privacy. Girls were another matter entirely. More on that later.

April 25th 1952 was a Friday and I was twelve years old. Along with my friends I stripped down naked placing all my clothing as well as my cherished St. Christopher’s medal into a locker at the Y. We had no swimsuits, no sports jerseys and no shorts to cover ourselves with. We didn’t even have athletic supporters. It wasn’t as if we were forgetful and had left those things at home, it was that any sort of clothing was strictly forbidden. My fellow swimmers and I marched from the locker room to the indoor pool completely stark boy naked, our little white bare bottoms swaying from side to side with each step. No towels, no flip-flops, no swim googles, nothing at all. It was embarrassing, I’ll admit that, but I told myself that people wouldn’t see me as an individual naked boy, but rather as just one naked boy in a group of many naked boys. There’s strength in numbers. My nudity would blend in with all the others, or so I hoped. For a devout Catholic boy, such as myself, it was actually sort of thrilling in a weird and twisted way. It was like getting to stay up well past bedtime or going out on Halloween night to toilet paper the house of a mean neighbor. The normal rules of decorum had been temporarily set aside and that was a novelty for a scrupulously well behaved boy like me. It was like an extreme case of “opposite day.” We were engaging in an activity that would otherwise have been considered wicked, even shocking, but it was all done with complete parental and church approval.

I was a handsome child, slender and athletic, but small for my age and late to develop. I was afraid that my genitals where better suited for a nine year old than for a boy who would soon be turning thirteen. No one had ever given me a hard time on this issue. I’d never been teased. But in my current state I felt that my diminutive boyhood was the first thing anyone would notice about me. I stayed close to my friend Sammy Jones because he wasn’t all that big either.

The ancient gymnasium was beyond big. It was cavernous, or so it seemed, and I felt almost lost in it. Rather than feeling like a gladiator about to do battle I felt more like an early Christian entering the colosseum to be fed to the lions. On the pool deck stood the coaches, timekeepers and race officials. About 120 other boys ages seven to fourteen were seated naked on wooded benches along either side of the pool. No kidding, you never saw so much pink flesh all at once. As a person of deep and abiding faith I believe that there’s nothing inherently obscene or wicked about the human body. I believe that God created us all and that, man or woman, boy or girl, we are all beautiful each in his or her own special way. But even so it was a pretty strange sight.

It was a family night so grandparents, mothers and father, brothers and sisters had come to cheer their progeny on to victory. However the spectators had been relegated to the balcony, the lowest level of which was a good 15 feet above the pool deck. I kept my eyes focused away from the on lookers and on the other boys. We didn’t look up at all and our family members seemed to understand why. They didn’t call out any names or try to distract us. You could almost forget that they were there and that’s what I wanted. I wanted to feel that this was just another swim practice. I felt exhilarated as I smelled the chlorine and heard the P.A. system echoing off the walls in the vast space. I was ready to go.

The younger boys raced first. Raced? Actually most of them just sort of thrashed about and avoided drowning as they laboriously made their way from one side of the pool to the other but that was good enough. They all emerged at the other end glistening and triumphant. Then I heard my group called and took my position on the assigned starting block alongside the other twelve year olds. Standing there with our dicks hanging out I felt completely exposed, but the feeling didn’t last long. With the “BANG!” from a snub-nosed blue steel Smith and Wesson 38 police special loaded with blanks we were off the blocks in a flash. The moment I entered the water everything changed. I was transformed from a little naked boy into a demon possessed. I was fast, oh so very fast, and swimming flat out felt fantastic! I forgot all about being naked. I forgot all about the females who were watching. I forgot about everything but the cool water and the race and it was simply grand. I gave it everything I had, every atom of strength, and I finish well ahead of my nearest competitor. The crowd went wild as they say and as the other swimmers came in they all congratulated me. I was spent but exhilarated. The large clock on the wall recorded my time for all to see and it was impressive,

Then it was time for me to climb out of the pool and step up to my rightful position on the winner’s dais to receive my trophy. The second and third placed boys were to my right and left and although they might have been larger I was made taller by my place on the center and highest step of the three stepped podium. Standing there as my name was read over the loudspeakers I happened to glance down momentarily at my nakedness. It’s true what mountain climbers say. Don’t look down!

I realized in horror that the cold water combined with the physical exertion of the race had caused my already diminutive boyhood to shrink even smaller. Like the barrel on the starting gun my circumcised penis was a snub-nosed affair but now it seemed to have no shaft at all. It was just a little rounded pink button with a frilly collar. As for my balls they had pulled up so close to my body that you could hardly see them. I looked like a castrati. There were seven year olds present in that old gymnasium who were better endowed than I. I comforted myself with the thought that from the balcony the audience probably couldn’t make out too much detail. From that distance we all must have looked like eunuchs. I wondered who was watching. My mom and two sisters for sure and the sisters of some of my friends and schoolmates. Probably even some of the girls from my class were there as well. That possibility gave me a strange feeling like giant butterflies fluttering about in my tummy. The next thing I knew I was being reverently crowned with a green plastic laurel wreath and handed a trophy. I’d have been more appreciative of a towel.

We then returned to our bench to watch the thirteen and fourteen year-olds compete. That’s how it was, the younger boys swam first and then the older boys, but we were all required to sit and watch every race. No sneaking off to the locker room early

I saw someone try to refuse to shower after PE at my school and I can still see and hear what the teacher said to him - he told him to stop being childish and grow up! We were no older than thirteen.

I agree with Nathan. It should be a part of regular PE everywhere.

Liza: It is a shame these days people get so easily "offended" when nothing has been said about them. It is a good way of shutting down conversation. Straight out of the left wing playbook, but I think most people would agree with the sentiments I expressed.I have already made it clear that any other branch of teaching it doesn't matter. As somebody who had to tolerate the sort of man we had, who happened to have those proclivities, for several years, I think it a perfectly fair comment. Sorry if you really were offended. Was offended every day for 7 years.

One of my PE teachers used to share one end of the school showers with us when we took them after games. That was in the 1976-8 period when I had PE at the end of the school day quite a lot. That teacher didn't get too close to us and he kept his shorts on when he stood with us but the boys and me were completely naked. Neither of my parents batted an eyelid when I described this to them at the time. Nothing inappropriate to report. I used to trust my teachers and the thought that they would do anything wrong simply wouldn't have crossed my mind. It all seemed quite normal then. Everyone is getting a bit too fond of rewriting the past in the image of the present.

I still remember sometimes a PE teacher would briefly massage someone at the end of gym in the gym or back in the changing room who said they had a muscle ache on the back, shoulders or leg. This happened to me one day when I pulled a neck muscle and it hurt like hell and I found it difficult to turn my head in either direction. I had no top on, none got worn inside most weeks, and the PE teacher that day placed his hands on my shoulders and the back of my neck and rubbed and massaged it to try and help my movement. It helped a little bit but that was the day I found out I was actually quite ticklish and couldn't keep still as he did so without wriggling and giggling, some in my PE group looking on finding it highly amusing and even bringing my teacher to laugh at me. It's a fond memory.

What a shame a PE teacher probably can't or wouldn't feel able to help out like that nowadays because of crazy over sensitivities about the motivating factor.

Lisa, I should think that many contributors feel uncomfortable about Alan's views but hesitate to say so out of politeness, since he clearly had an unhappy time at school, and because he is frequently dismissive of any view that is different from his own. I'm sure he will not mind my saying that because sometimes he has been good enough to apologise for causing offence. Stand by!

Ivan

You said that you saw a whole class being slippered by the p e teacher. Did you know what crime they had committed? Was there a "no pants under shorts" rule and, if so, could non-compliance have been the reason?

Are any other contributors on here just a little uncomfortable with the strong way that Alan presents his arguments using sexuality issues which seem a general underlying theme.

Some just cannot separate disrobed bodies from anything other than being sexualised. The overt homophobia is deeply disrespectful to gay men and lesbian women, of which I am one.

In many years of PE/Games sessions at my school, in the company of dozens or often scores of other boys, I never once encountered any issue, from any person, about skins/shirts, showering or body image or anything remotely the like.

Frankly, we had far more immediate concerns to occupy our minds, like trying to avoid breaking our necks whilst executing mindless somersaults, or fracturing limbs by falling from ropes or climbing frames, etc.

If any such accident happened, the teacher would simply say that we hadn't been following instructions properly, or we had been messing about. No blame would attach to him.

After the session ended, showering, drying and dressing was always done at top speed. This gave us no time to ponder each other's physical irregularities or the whims of fashion, or indeed if anyone was watching us inappropriately; (I'm convinced no-one ever did.)

Despite our best efforts with our towels, we often arrived still dripping wet at our next lesson, looking, as one teacher put it, "like drowned rats!"

Nathan - I have said it before, but here goes again - you show me the boy who will admit to his parents, or teachers, that he feels uncomfortable - that is the reason you don't get notes. Rather than be singled out, the lad will just go along with it, and feel uncomfortable, and it probably stays with him all his life. I trust, however that these days, especially older pupils, are granted privacy and not gawped at and inspected as we were. You just had to hope enough steam escaped from the water so that the teacher's view was a bit clouded, and a towel was at hand as soon as you got out. Incidentally, if the parent did write a note, as I understand it, the boy himself would be "spoken to"about it, I assume in an effort to get him to change his mind?.

I wouldn't like to comment on the religious aspect - all I can say is that our school was not a religious one, but I suspect, that like that foul nurse who killed several babies and attempts to kill several more (her refusual to appear in the dock for sentencing, in my view, confirmed her guilt, just as the old man's desire t cling to South. Africa confirms his), the rotten apples hide behind the "angels" and Mr. Chips image of the two professions. Who can fathom the mind of such a woman that she could kill or maim tiny premature babies. In the same way a paedophile teacher might find the added cover of a faith school adds smoke and mirrors to his grim interests. Again, I emphasise that I do not think every teacher or nurse is a wrong un, but there still appears to be too many. One is one too many. That is the reason I would discourage homosexual or lesbian teachers from taking up a role as a PE teacher - no problem with any other branch if they are that way inclined.

On the case of Nicky Campbell's revolting old teacher - I think that his fight to stay in South Africa, plus the added prop of a walking stick to make him look infirm and pitiable is just confirmation of his guilt. I think I can say that because I am sure he has a lawyer astute enough to let him die in South Africa, without ever coming back to this country to appear in court. The recent local case I mentioned, resulted in one PE teacher, found guilty of multiple offences , given a 22 month SUSPENDED prison sentence. That "man" is a decade younger than the timid old man in South Africa. I doubt he ever spent even a night in a police cell. I don't think we need feel too sorry for schoolteachers, frankly.

Phil, you have just coincidentally pulled up my own school's website on here.

Last year Mr Dando who posted another extreme opinion again here this week stuck a similar rant about my school and another teacher showed it to me and I decided to answer him directly then. It's on the Fulwood section from 3rd April last year. I had to search through to find it again.

Nowadays teachers sometimes feel they are the vulnerable ones.

I fully support the use of showers as a part of PE at school and that they should be taken in most cases unless there are good reasons to the contrary. Hygiene is important. Everyone takes them. You can throw yourself 100% into whatever PE with all your energy in the knowledge you will be freshened up or cleaned afterwards. Isn't that sensible? But just go back and read some of the things I have said. Any parent could write a note making it clear they didn't wish their son to shower in school and it would have to be abided by, no question on that. I suppose any child could persuade their parent to write that note on their own behalf too if it was so concerning. Eight years so far and I'm still waiting for the first note to say such a thing. I've only ever had two mild concerns about school showers in a parent meet evening and both ended up reassured and nothing further went forward. If I was to receive that first note my first reaction would be to speak with the pupil to find out more and then the parents and ultimately their view would prevail.

So maybe somebody with strong views like you Mr Dando, or Alan or someone else would like to tell me why they think I don't get those notes.

I've actually authored a couple of small books that might be available somewhere still, possibly the usual places online if anyone wants to check them out. One relating to body confidence. One thing I have noticed when pupils are occasionally shirtless in class is that they all want the defined stomach and a lot like doing stomach crunches.

I know Alan has previously placed a link to this story. Here is an update from today on the BBC site regarding broadcaster Nicky Campbell's experience and his fellow class pupils in his school.

Nobody should be in any doubt about why people who experienced such people and such schools become so overwhelmed with anger. I got angry simply reading about these kind of people and how they treated pupils.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66580604

The catholic school point is familiar Phil. Going back decades isn't it the catholic schools that were also the ones generally in the United States that were the ones that predominantly went with the forcing of boys swimming being done completely bare butt naked. It was only through reading one of the years old comments on here once that I even became aware of that being a thing years ago and when I read more about it discovered that even boys at school in the 1960s and their families were finding that strange as a blanket rule to be adhered to in a school. I've never thought of bringing a religious aspect into this whole thing but if the suggestion is that catholic schools are nowadays disproportionately requiring showers then it seems noteworthy at the very least.

Thinking about what Mr Dando says, I do not know of many C of E state school which require showers now. It seems to be a particularity of Voluntary aided Roman Catholic schools.

All Hallows Roman Catholic school seems to be another outlier with its website showing https://www.allhallowssalford.com/parents/uniform/

A note must be brought in to excuse any pupil from P.E. or shower.

Maybe it is time to ban faith based schools in the United Kingdom given that we are a predominantly protestant country and The Catholic Church has historic links to child abuse including compulsory showers.

Thinking about what Mr Dando has written, I sincerely hope there are not too many eleven or twelve year olds out there getting ready to join a new school very soon now in the autumn term for the new school year who are spending the last few days of August worrying themselves silly about what to expect.

I remember seeing a school list like the one Mr Dando placed that my parents had been given which I read and saw it made reference to bringing towels to school and showering for physical education. I remember how I kept going back to this piece of typed out sheet of paper and re-reading it hoping against hope that what I'd seen would somehow no longer be there, but of course it was. I agonised over it more and more as August progressed and I fixated on my first day back in Sept 78 and being obsessed about just when the first games lesson might be. In that school holiday I hung about with a couple of boys from my old class and told one of them what I'd discovered on the parents note and did he know about it and he just laughed at me. Both my parents filled me in on their time at school and what they did which did nothing to reassure me in any way.

That worry was actually the worst part of the entire thing. Facing things and then actually doing them was surprisingly easy in the end. We are all guilty of building things up in our minds into bigger problems than they really are and I suggest that facing school showers was one of those that felt a scary prospect until we actually did it and realised it wasn't so bad after all.

Rachel & Paula,
I recall one PE teacher taking few a few girls aside at the start of one school year and telling them to ask their mothers to buy them a bra, which they found a little embarrassing.
Thankfully, I had just started to wear one anyway.

You're right Jim. I'm unsure if I did write one of those comments myself but either way it's how I felt too. I never made any fuss about going swimming at school, mixed as it was, but later really didn't enjoy being told to remove the top in general PE. Perhaps age played a part in this as I only swam at school between the age of 9 and 11 but the actual shirtless PE started after those ages sometime about 12, but I don't think I would have become touchy about swimming if it had continued past 12 years old into those difficult older years. I definitely would not have wanted to put on some kind of body outfit and I'm confident in saying if I had been offered even a wet t-shirt to swim in I would have declined it as just looking stupid. I know a lot of others have come on and bemoaned their lot in school PE on the issue but not many people, however self conscious they might be, or with low self esteem, would think that what Mr Dando says is the way to go.

If you are parents who hold a strong view against such shower requirements then you have that information at your fingertips and can quite freely decide not to send your child to that school or any other that makes it clear what they require. Therefore nobody is making anyone do anything, and it's the parents view that matters most in the first instance.

As for making boys cover up for swimming, down that route lies madness. I've seen more than one comment on this discussion where men who were set against having to do PE in their school shirtless also said that they didn't feel the same about doing so swimming because that felt different. Good luck trying to find any men come on here and admit they would actually have preferred to have gone swimming at school or anywhere else wearing some kind of full coverage body suit.

The past stories provided by the contributors on this platform is harrowing to say the least. The fact is that PE Teachers under the so called Loco Parentis rule had too much power and parents were too deferential in their view of authority. The communal shower and shirtless PE was a bygone age product of a declining colonial empire and the still often held view that National service would make a "man" of you.

Even today there are still some schools which compel pupils to take naked showers whereas in most right thinking educational institutions this is either optional, recommended or no longer available.

Swimming lessons should no longer require boys to be topless and boys should either wear rash vests or have gender nuetral one piece swim suits when entering the school pool. All Mandatory school shower programmes should be banned and PE Teachers who require males to go topless in Gym class should be struck off.

Here is one offending Voluntary Catholic academy that still requires pupils to shower.

https://www.stphiliphowardglossop.srscmat.co.uk/information/dress-code-and-equipment/

P.E. KIT – The Essentials
Black or white approved Polo shirt with school crest.
Plain black PE shorts.
Trainers or plimsolls.
Black socks.
Optional approved sweatshirt with school crest.
P.E. Kit – Additional
A plain black track-suit where P.E. staff say it is appropriate for winter – no logos or designer outfits.
Ties, jumper with school crest and all items of P.E. kit can be purchased from school.

A current price list is included.

Physical Education is a National Curriculum subject and all students are required to participate in the course

All students are required to shower unless there is a confirmed medical reason for not doing so.

It is time we campaign in the next general election to outlaw school showers, phase out school uniforms in the UK or have a gender nuetral unform for males, females and non-binary people to wear. Together we can make a difference and strike a blow for diversity and inclusivity in education.

William (20th August):

One definition of power:

"noun The ability or official capacity to exercise control; authority."

Shouting at people, belittling them, making little boys call you "sir" , at one time not too long ago, being able to hit children and enjoying exploiting your authority.

Sorry, I don't withdraw a word of what I said.

Neil: I always prefer to be clean, to this day, so yes if you like that is a confession, but I didn't like being watched by a dirty old pederist. There's another "confession" for you. What's your point?

So I've teased a quite fascinating admission out of you Alan.

It's a big deal to be instructed to have a shirtless PE lesson but you actually admitted to a preference to take a shower.

I'm scratching my head in confusion trying to work out how you can be so against one but in favour of the other when the one you are in favour of involves a complete naked body and shirtless just means getting your top off.

I agree that a responsible school should at the very least encourage a shower.

Roy, 20th August. You raise some interesting points. Frankly, whether it was in 1950, 1980, 2000 or 2023, I think it was totally unacceptable for teachers to hurl either physical objects (throwing blackboard erasers was a trick of some of our teachers - though these days I think they are no longer called blackboards, and a duster will wipe away the ink markers used on whiteboards), or hurl insults, especially about physical characteristics in a pejorative way, as it encouraged the other pupils to take their lead. It is strange that it was tolerated at any time. Just imagine if that teacher, so unable to control his/her temper, went home in the evening and chucked objects at their spouse because he/she had upset him/her. In the case of the boy Anthony has mentioned, it seems he had not "come to attention" as quickly as the teacher wanted. Was his behaviour acceptable?. I would say not - most of them can shout loudly enough.

As to why it was prevalent in the 80s and 90s (and beyond) - how to put this without causing offence? - although it was still socially unacceptable to be homosexual, it was not illegal, and indeed these days and for the past several years it has been encouraged to "come out" at work, including schools. Those teachers who behaved in that way prior to decriminalisation risked prison - and so their behaviour was carefully masked, under the guise of "discipline", and continued to be until the press and the BBC decided gay teachers were a good thing. My teacher had been in the army, was a rugby playing drinking and smoking lad - couldn't be a gay soldier or rugby player could there?. Well, R was one, and many of his colleagues were aware of it, but would always have closed ranks if a complaint had been made. It was noticeable in our case that R was great mates with our pervy "discipline fetish" teacher (the one who would cane at the drop of a hat, and liked to touch the target's backside before the first stroke). Birds of a feather, I suspect. It was blatant, and it was outrageous by any standards, but parents perhaps didn't take as much interest in those days, nor the local press.

I have no problem with gay teachers in virtually any other branch of education, but I really do think employing gay men to supervise showers etc, or lesbian women in the same situation with girls should be greatly discouraged - especially now it seems to be the norm to stay on at school until you are a young man or woman. It s like putting an alcoholic in to run a brewery. Some people thought one of our other teachers was a bit camp, and therefore gay, but he was quite harmless, was one of the few who treated us kindly, and apart from sometimes putting his arm on your shoulder, that is all he did - and he had no authority to make you take your clothes off, and of course, never did.. It didn't bother me, it is when men (and I suspect some women PE teachers were/are lesbian, as we have had a couple of example recently of a woman talking to girls about their bodies in a very unnecessary way and the person who said that the woman PE teacher was nice to the girls but extra harsh with the boys indicates that was a possibility. Some Sapphic women are dedicated man haters.

I am not, of course, suggesting all PE teachers are lesbian or homosexual, (no doubt a few posters will accuse me of that solecism) but it happened to be the case at our school, and I suspect many of the posters on this forum had teachers of this persuasion. It just wasn't talked about or even understood

Paula I can relate to that. I was very flat chested throughout school and was told many times I should join the boys. The ironic thing was I'd have loved to do football which I was good at long before it became a thing something the boys grudgingly acknowledged, basketball and their indoor gym was more interesting than ours. Thankfully said teacher left very suddenly when I was 15 and was replaced by someone with a lot more sense.

Most gym lessons like the illustrative photograph seemed to be preparing everyone to leave school and join the circus as acrobats.

Just like algebra, literally no practical application in the real word most of us would end up inhabiting. Even the army comment is a bit dubious. The army could take the unfittest national service lads and bring them up to shape in no time in many cases, they didn't really need school prepping them ahead of induction.

Most children used to be naturally fit and active without school PE by walking everywhere, running about outside and racing around on bicycles or kicking balls about.

There is nothing wrong with compulsory shirtless PE though. It makes you aware of yourself and hopefully take an interest in looking as good as you can. It's good to have no hiding place and be seen for what you are. Most boys had nothing to fret over, look at them all, they're a fine looking bunch.

It is true it was not just P E Teachers who were strict. In my all boys school, it was quite common for the black board rubber to be thrown across the room and either hit or land squarely on the desk in front of some pupil. But then again that person usually deserved to be chastised(perhaps not in that way) because he was not paying attention. After all we did go to school to learn.
I do remember our woodwork teacher. During one lesson (which was quite unruly) He explained that we would be using Piranha pine as a timber. For some reason he then said were to remember the name of that timber(never called it wood) for the next lesson. It ONE boy forget the name the whole class would get the cane!!! And he was man not to be messed with. throughout the week at every opportunity we all recited to one another Piranha pine. The next time we went for woodwork we were worried who he would ask to name the timber. HE DIDN'T but to this day I remember Parana pine.
I never though a whole class would be punished but one day when I was on prefect duty one of the pe teachers made the whole class bend over and he systematically went along the line giving them one slap of the slipper. Neve seen that happen since.

Another fantsastic generalisation from Alan: "teachers, especially PE teachers, seem to think they are exempt from normal civilised bahaviour." What nonsense! And deeply unfair to teachers.

In the recent article that was placed here about the Bromley teacher the dates of 1981 to 1997 which that story covered seemed a familiar time yet again for those kind of events. For whatever reason many of these cases that come along appear to relate and cluster to dates often around the early 1980's or that decade in general. So what is going on here. Was there a serious systemic failure that allowed this at the time, a culture that developed in the 1970's that had not previously been there, and why has so much come to light from this period, is this because that generation, my own generation in our late 50's are more vocal and the teachers that taught us are still around and able to be brought to account for behaviour in schools or what.

The reason I say this is because when I've spoken to my father and elderly uncles they have got largely respected views of their PE teachers at school in the earlier generation before mine, almost glowing infact. Yes there was an old school strictness that prevailed in those days but alongside it went quite a bit of respect. Now this does not seem to be the case in my generation who were schooled later on including up to the 1980's. In the past when I've sat around discussing schooldays with friends and family we haven't spoken in the same way about our own PE teachers, and comments have cropped up about weird behaviour and someone being "one to watch".

It's quite possible that my generation has not been prepared to put up with the same things that the previous generation was, and the generation now below me even less so.

The story of the boy getting knocked out sounds shocking but the action that caused it isn't. That kind of thing was par for the course in school every day back then, things often got chucked at people by teachers, not just by PE ones either. Quite thick exercise books used to get cracked hard on top of heads by a certain type of teacher, chalk would be thrown and I can even remember a chair flying across a classroom at someone, and I mean fly, over the heads to its intended destination with no thought about what it might actually do to someone if it hit them. When you describe this kind of behaviour you'd think ah well he went to a poor school in a rotten area, but not at all, these things went on in some of the schools that liked to consider themselves very good places to learn.

Paula: That is terrible. Of course at my school we had no girls and the few women teachers who drifted in and out were minimal and were usually frosty old dears who treated us like the scum they thought we were. As I recall there were only two or three. None were "Mrs" and most only stayed one year or were temps. I think far too many PE teachers had a very unhealthy obsession with pupils bodies and what they perceived as faults. It would be very interesting if they had to explain their behaviour today, preferably under oath in court.

Anthony - Our Mr R was always trying to inflict "accidental" mishaps, luckily for him, he never succeeded in felling a pupil, but then I think very few of us would have wanted to be carted off to his "room" for his version of first aid. You can only hope that they would not get away with it today, but sadly, I don't think there are any guarantees, as, like politicians, teachers, especially PE teachers, seem to think they are exempt from every kind of normal civilised behaviour

I was in a 4th form (age 14/15) PE class in the early 80s when a guy in our group was knocked clean out by our teacher when he had a football thrown straight at his head for not paying attention and looking where he should when our teacher commanded we all gather around and listen. He went down and out instantly and we knew immediately he wasn't joking. You should have seen the change come over the teacher from the usual cocky arrogance to petrified blind panic. I think the kid nearly swallowed his tongue or something before coming back around.

We got called in individually to another non PE teachers office to seemingly corroborate what had actually happened which made me wonder if they doubted the teacher's own explanation on how one of our class ended up knocked out. It was very strange. I didn't lie, I told them the teacher had deliberately hit the ball towards the head and it was not accidental.

Plenty of girls hated their PE teachers too Alan.

I was in my teens in the early 1970's at a mixed senior school with about 800 attendees.

When it came to personal comments the most memorable, for all the wrong reasons, was a woman who took the girls in my early teens who thought it was appropriate to discuss certain girls breast size development whilst we were topless and openly discussing support for girls who developed faster than others. That's you Mrs Jeanette Cribb if you're out there still and reading your school history. Quite mortifying.

I think as a rule of thumb girls tended to dislike PE far more than boys and many were super sensitive about our looks. Taking a shower was a huge embarrassment for so many of us, girls did these things too back in time in exactly the same way as boys did and very few girls liked it for many reasons, some of which I don't feel the need to repeat here.