Burnley Grammar School

You still have to sign in as an adult to see that clip, strange when it was made for the under 12's in the first place!

Comment by: Matthew S on 26th July 2022 at 00:12
Responding to - Paul J on 24th June 2022 at 14:59
I've just watched the Good Health video which I remember from years ago, I'm amazed it's still around.

https://youtu.be/NRRw-k7cGJs

Wow that's a memory brought back there. Our primary school class saw this in school, we must have been around 9. I thought it was unfair the girls got to see all those naked boys but we couldn't see the girls doing the same. Class got in trouble for sniggering, the girls mainly, I don't blame them seeing that again. After it ended class had to talk about what we had just seen and answer and ask questions it raised. Our primary had a shower area one side of the changing room which was never touched but within days of seeing this programme it must have sparked our teachers into action because they started turning the showers on and telling us to walk into them after PE lessons and suddenly we kept hearing about sweat and the term B/O became a big obsessive thing out of the blue. I blame this damned programme for that and for the fact that we started occasionally doing some of our lessons with a bare chest which we had never done up to that point either. It all felt a bit shit at the time. Obviously our teachers were in need of educating on personal hygiene issues and took the advice on this programme quite literally and implemented it on us.







^^^^Answering this old Matthew comment from last year above.^^^^

Watched this at middle school about 1982/3 completely open mouthed all those years ago. Watched it again 2023 this afternoon equally open mouthed. I had a very similar experience to the film and to the one you explained here. Wow.

I read what Harvey has said and over sixty years later it certainly does read as quite a hideous way for anyone to treat somebody. Inside the school gates seems like it created an immunity of some type where adults could effectively assault children and it was deemed appropriate whilst if say an adult had accosted you Harvey outside of school and done the exact same thing wouldn't that have been seen as a serious crime of assault even in the early sixties. Corporal punishment is one thing but on your hands and knees with no clothes being padded with a cricket bat in the locker room is surely designed as much more than a short sharp pain and moves into deliberate humiliation as well. I always worried about PE teachers who seemed to indulge in humiliation tactics. Whilst in is obviously unavoidable that a stroke of a cane might leave a brief reddening when it comes to actual bruising that is not right. Corporal punishment should not leave bruising.

I was at school fifteen years after you Harvey. My own anecdote does not involve corporal punishment or anything physical but at the time I found it to be unjust, very unnecessary and a deliberate attempt to cause division that served no purpose and it was something very simple and at face value rather harmless. In one of my early secondary school PE lessons we had a gym teacher who asked us to line up along the gym from thinnest to fattest, which we had to decide for ourselves. Nobody wanted to do it. He then disagreed with our decision and started switching a few of us around. No shirts on for this. PE was not permanently shirtless in the school gym but we did spent a lot of time like it across whichever teacher took us.

This whole exercise made people even more insecure in the PE lesson than they needed to be. Boys are insecure enough at that age. The same teacher made a comment to one of my friends about his rounded shoulders on more than one occasion in the gym. This lead to me being at home with him one day after school and the both of us standing in front of his mothers dressing table mirror in her bedroom with our shirts off trying to compare his apparent rounded shoulders with mine and being unable to see any obvious difference. We were basically much the same normal sized build for the our age.

In PE I was told that I ran like a cissy. Later the same teacher told me I even walked like one. I ended up walking past large shop windows trying to watch my reflection as I walked along to see what he was talking about and it affected me for at least a few months if not more.

Gary

You asked which had stricter kit rules, grammar or comprehensive schools (or secondary modern for that matter)

I think at the time I went to school (late 60's/early 70's), all schools had pretty rigid and strict rules about things like uniform/PE/cross country kit.

Grammar schools may have been more "traditional", and mine certainly was, but friends at secondary modern schools also had the same rigid rules as us.

We ran xc in shorts/plimsolls, always shirtless. We had to change and line up outside the gym ready, any boy with a shirt on would have stood out amongst 90 other kids all stripped to the waist, and he would have been told to remove it immediately. Later he would have been slippered, and any repeat offence resulted in a caning. Certainly boys in my class were caned for repeatedly forgetting pe shorts or not showering, so it was more than a threat

Comment by: Lee on 9th May 2023 at 00:00
Harvey: You might not have respected him after that but did you achieve more because of it?

We all need a good boot up the backside sometimes.


Harvey was clearly another victim of a sadist. If you have ever tried to teach your own specialization to anybody else, you have to reconcile yourself to the fact that however much you shout, swear and (in this case) beat, there are those who justdo not have the flair for the subject - whatever it is. You can't beat knowledge into anybody, Lee - what might be easy to me, won't be to you,, and vice versa.

I think a teacher who tries to wallop his subject into somebody else, is not only a bully, but a failure.

Where did you get the tougher PE back in the previous decades such as the 60s to 80s, was it in grammar schools or comprehensives?

My home town had 2 grammar schools, 2 secondary modern schools (late 1960's)

All of them ran cross country, and all of them made boys run stripped to the waist all year around. It wasn't anything unusual, it was normal.

As far as I know, they all did indoor PE, as we did, in just a pair of shorts

Harvey: You might not have respected him after that but did you achieve more because of it?

We all need a good boot up the backside sometimes.

Former Milton Abbey school pupil here from 1961 age 13. Now almost 75.

We had a PE teacher at the school who was a big cricket lover and expected all of us to follow his enthusiasm. Unfortunately I found cricket to be a total bore both to watch and play and found it hard to conceal my lack of interest. The teacher was quite fond of swinging the cricket bat at more than a few cricket balls. Henry Dixon-Perry liked his cricket bat making high speed impact with boys backsides both out on the field and back in the building. It was back inside while changing in 1961 he had me on all fours in the changing room with an audience of my peers, pre-shower naked, and launched his cricket bat at me three times in quick succession for the sin of non-achievement. Leaving me bruised on the rear. And this chap wanted me to respect him. It's part of the reason I resolved never to physically hit my own children, I have three, two sons and a daughter, and I never did so. All three have grown up to be decent well behaved human beings.

His view of PE teachers seems to be like women who think all men are rapists.

You're too hung up on this single issue train of thought Alan.

You have never once mentioned that YOU personally have been a victim of the behaviour you speak of. If so I would understand your stance.

Comment by: Joanne on 7th May 2023 at 11:59


I agree ALL teachers, regardless of sex, should keep their hands to themselves. I suspect in most cases of this sort the boys are wiling participants, which I think does lessen the crime. I think when you have a male pederast inflicting himself on young boys it is far worse, because there is always the possibility of buggery coming into the equation, which, frankly, I find deplorable.

My former secondary school, which shall remain nameless, had a decent looking female teacher, I forget which subject she taught, who was 38 years old and found out to be seducing boys in her classes aged 14 and 15 around her home including engaging in sex with them. This happened in around about 2015, a long time after I left the place. When it was reported what caught my attention was how the tone was so much lighter than it would have been if she had been male doing that to them, or girls in school. It was almost as if the boys were lucky to manage to get the teacher to do that or that the teacher was a bit of a cheeky up front so and so, not an actual sexual predator of underage persons and acting completely illegally, unprofessionally and beyond the pale. It's not all men, but when a few women cross the lines they do seem to get treated and thought of less harshly.

Jason, I think this is a trend that is reflected throughout public life - the BBC is a prime example, women football commentators, even rugby commentators, and of course in politics. Given the proclivities of some male teachers, which I have discussed before, and won't again now, perhaps it is not such a bad thing. I think primary school has always been female dominated - certainly it was in my time, and I doubt very few men work in pre-school nurseries.

Ever heard of a dinner man? No me neither. All ladies.

Nowhere near enough male role models in school at that age. It's actually getting worse too. For some reason the gender balance is going the other way in schools under age 12. Far too many women and if you look at many first schools up to age 8 they are staffed completely by women and that is not right in my opinion and yet nothing is done to address this unhealthy imbalance.

I went to Sandbrook Primary School which long ago changed its name for some reason, between 1971-75.

In one of the A4 sheets I still have which details what we could wear to school and what to bring for PE there is an interesting use of the words 'basic' and 'clean' to describe boys PE kit for the indoor school hall. They didn't really have what you would describe as a proper gym as such, the main school hall just had some bits of PE apparatus around the edges that got pulled out and a nearby cupboard stuffed full of mats and anything else PE related.

Boys PE description;

Boys in all years - The only requirement shall be a basic pair of clean PE shorts in any colour, non patterned.

That really was it. Very easy to remember and there was a box of spares if somebody did forget. So like a previous person on here has said, there was no positive describing of the PE lesson as something a boy would do with both an actual bare chest and feet. You draw your own conclusions from the 'basic' description.

In that time boys would never have been expected to complain or question about such an ask in PE and it would have been unheard of for any parent to do so either. Contrast with some today if the same applied.

If the weather was great we'd pop outside to make the most of it instead of staying inside and continue with the same 'basic' PE kit. I did not like walking on grass with nothing on my feet, it felt strange to me.

There was a big long jump sandpit which was quite fun when we went outside.

There was a small shower area in our boys changing room at this school. It was not used as a general rule but if you had PE in the morning and it had been a hot day we might come back and find it being put on and told to use it if we had been very active. But we never had to bring a towel to school so in those circumstances we would use what amounted to a kind of modern day kitchen roll sheet or two.

I remember my primary school seemed to have quite a lot of male teachers for the time, almost half were.

It doesn't matter what school you go to, however good or bad it is, state or private, pompously renamed academies, grammar, fee paying, whatever - you will always get a class twit in every single form, sometimes a couple of them who feed off each other. The fire alarm is a very familiar tale unfortunately in any school.

(ex-teacher)

Haha it's amusing you mention that Chris. I used to wonder what would happen if the fire alarm went off while we were showering at school, so the class idiot decided to find out one day and broke the glass in our changing room as half the class was under the showerheads just so he could find out. All that happened was we ran out soaked and got dressed without drying off and walked promptly outside before getting asked what took us so long to do so. So basically we were prevented from drying, but not putting our stuff back on. Hope that helps!

My school was filled with anarchist students in 1977.

Robbie, You were very sharp to have spotted Dr Dawn Harper in that photograph. She was in a television programme with some young men, whose friend had died from testicular cancer, and showed them how they should check their testicles. But the the photograph is inexplicable. The blogger seems to think it's genuine but I wonder...

Comment by: Ben on 28th April 2023 at 17:31
Thanks Craig for your post about bareskin running! Sounds a great idea and something I'd like to give a try some time when I'm in your neck of the woods. How often do you usually meet? Barechested PE in the gym wasn't uncommon when I was at school late 80s/early 90s, but I never experienced it in cross country. Maybe now's the time!




Is this you Ben? Only asking because its the same full name as your email icon popped up that you left with your post and there were some posts on the same subject as here too.

https://www.quora.com/profile/Ben-Thomas-306

"Woody" commented <In the same lesson someone smacked a ball against the wall, nothing unusual in that, except it hit the fire alarm box and cracked the glass setting it off and sending us all outside only ten minutes into the lesson. A couple of teachers lent one or two their coats to cover and warm up while the rest of us just braved it and shivered until we got back inside.>


We had loads of fire drills at school. It seemed like one every term. I've no idea if they do as many nowadays but it became a bit of a running joke at one point. We might have even had one or two unofficial ones, I'm not sure. I never gave it much thought that I might be in a PE lesson during one and what that might entail. That's the trouble with these things, you can't collect belongings and must head for the nearest fire exit fast and assemble ASAP, with whatever you have with you or on you and nothing else.

Lance on 4th May 2023 at 00:21


No, I wouldn't, Lance. I prefer to feel comfortable.

TimH

Thanks for checking the link - I had checked it myself and found it working.

For the sceptics:
1 - Yes, I am Male.
2 - My username has a derivation of no concern here, but is not gender-related.
3 - I have watched these threads with much interest, but I haven't posted for a long time as I have nothing new to contribute, beyond my experiences of school PE over half a century ago.
4 - I'm flattered to see my posts reproduced, but in "quotes" please.

Rant over! Back to meaningful discussion.

@ Mike et al.
Just to say that I simply 'cut & pasted' the URL and it came up. I don't think I've any special 'exemptions' set up on the PC so why other people can't get it I don't know.

Cutting and pasting - this is what appears:

I've heard that there are still some schools which require boys bing shirtless for P.E. and some don't allow underwear under gym shorts.
Do you know any school with such a rule?I don't know any.(I would like to know the school's names,website...etc. proving it)
What is/was your PE kit at school? (with school names)

Followed by:

Primary School: age 5 - 10
There was no special kit (this was not many years after WW2 when clothing was rationed) and we generally did PE in whatever we had on at the time. This was generally cotton (summer) or woollen (winter) vest (singlet for non-UK English speakers) and fly-front underpants, topped with grey flannel shorts and grey shirt, with a woollen jumper in cold weather. I remember one Summer afternooon, just before I left primary school, the PE master made us (boys at least, I can't remember if we did PE mixed or not) strip to the waist for PE in the sun in the playground. I remember confiding in this episode with my younger sister, but for some reason I was reluctant to tell my parents, probably because the prospect of kids going about without vests on was rather revolutionary in most households at that time.

Secondary School 1: age 11 - 16
Specified PE kit was white shorts and PE vest; on economy grounds, those of us who regularly wore underwear vests, i.e. initially virtually all of us, got into the habit of substituting our normal everyday vest for the latter item. After I had been at this school for a couple of years, the PE staff decided that it would be healthier for us to do PE topless and took a vote among us on the matter. Not surprisingly, toplessness got a 100% vote. With this garb, "Shirts and Skins" was obviously out, so we had coloured sashes to distinguish teams when necessary. Although we were expected to wear vests between the changing room and the gym, this rule was honoured more in the breach than the observance and we soon got into the habit of "forgetting" to put our vests back on under our shirts after PE. As we had PE every day of the week, generally in the mornings, we ended up minus our vests for much of the school week and soon most of us didn't bother coming to school in a vest at all, much to the concern of most of our parents, who felt that all children should wear vests all the year round, regardless of climate. There was no prohibition on the wearing of underwear, although for the first couple of years, most of us freeballed. At one point, probably when we were 12 or 13 and one lad got accidentally kicked in the "privates", the PE master advised us that we should think about wearing some form of support, and mentioned a thing called a "jock-strap". I don't think any of us had ever heard of this item of clothing, and i don't think any of us took the trouble to obtain one, but most of us took the hint, and from then on we tended to keep our underpants on for PE.

Secondary School 2: age 16 - 18
Specified PE kit was rather more conservative, white T-shirt and black rugby shorts, and no exceptions. Despite a persistent campaign by myself and a few others who arrived from schools where topless PE was customary, full kit was the inflexible rule, except for the beginning and end of term weigh-in, when for some reason we would strip down to our shorts. Since the shorts weighed rather more than the T-shirts, the logic behind this still escapes me. "Shirts and Skins" was out, sashes distinguished teams. There were no underwear rules, or even recommendations, but for comfort and safety we generally all wore some form of support, principally swimming trunks (Speedo type) or, increasingly, jock-straps, which we preferred once we had tried them out. This was where I got my first jock-straps, which I still find the ideal mimimal male undergarment, and which I generally regularly wear, particularly at week-ends.

The 'author' of the reply is 'Sidona'.
The only other comment I'd make is that the OP asks questions which are remarkably like those that a regular poster who appears to have left us might have made.

I can say no more.

Regarding the Tapatalk site, I don't think you would need to see it, to assume if is a fetish site, clearly a collection of strange men, and perhaps a few women, who seem over concerned about what young boys wear, or don't wear, when they are exercising. Not exactly edifying anyway, though fine, as Miss Jean Brodie would say, "for those who like that sort of thing"

Jeremy, there is something on that pixnudeswim swimming site you've placed on here that the blogger thinks might not be real but I can say for sure it is. Going to the 'Leftovers' tab on the left hand side, click it and then scroll right down to the final image number 29 which shows a woman standing with 8 full frontal naked young lads. The blogger (American?) seems to think that photo is bizarre but it's absolutely bona fide genuine. It comes from a Channel 4 TV series, he wouldn't know that probably, the name which now escapes me but was in the Embarrassing Bodies genre, it might even have been that show. The woman is actually a doctor, Dr Dawn Harper I think that is, and I've got a feeling the lads with her were a hockey team or something like that. I remember seeing this it must be about ten years ago now. Just another example of earlier gratuitous nudity from Channel 4 pushing the boundaries into CFNM territory. Do not even begin to ask me why there was a need for that to be filmed, I can't remember that much more.

Would you go bareskin running Alan with others like yourself if you thought it would instill greater confidence in you? Genuine question.

Regards your post Stephen.

The boys always had to shower through to fifth form at my secondary in the 80s but the girls didn't but could decide for themselves. They had all the same available options. Two sisters almost never bothered. It's just one of these things where boys seem to get treated so much stricter for some reason and have a need to be told what to do while girls are seen as mature enough to make decisions even when they are very young.

I'm getting a message saying - no route found, for the tapatalk link, so yet again I'm another saying it does not work.