Hesketh Fletcher Gym Team

Andy quote 'I wonder if this webpage existed 30years ago what would people be discussing?'


Going back to 1975-9.

Good point. I suppose if this site and other forums existed 30 years ago or more then that history would be looking further back to people who were at school in the first half of the 20th century, the 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's, although there are some people on here who have ,mentioned being at school in the 50's I think I've seen. But I wonder if anybody in school back then would be coming onto forums and complaining about having to do the things they now mention as older adults retrospectively, like going barechests for PE and being made to share group showers close up with lots of others naked while being closely observed by the teacher doing it.

Jacob post, I really liked reading that one. I remember being extremely envious of boys like you at school who could go about like you said you did and not be bothered. I could never have gone around town with my shirt off or to the pictures even if we were sitting in the dark for the film. Sometimes when we had to run cross country we did it with no shirts on in the spring and we ran around beside school and even though we never bumped into anyone there was always that threat we might even though it was a quiet woodland area. I was always aware of my heart racing and pounding away strongly through my chest through both the running cardiovascular exertion and the anxiety combined.

Although I never actually shared any PE with the opposite sex, both boys and girls formed outside together before we went off to do our separate lesson with our respective teachers and when we sometimes went without any tops that was the one opportunity girls got to see us for a few moments as we hung about near them and it was not so much that any of them said much but more how they looked at us that I remember. I could imagine some of them comparing notes with each other about some of us they liked or even disliked. One of the girls female PE teachers would take our lessons sometimes along with our main man and even come on cross country with us, although she did not seem to have the power to tell us how we should turn out and it was only our male teacher who ever told us what to wear or not outside when he shared the lesson like that.

Yes, we had shorts and could also wear tracksuit bottoms or leggings for outdoor games if we wanted to.
The boys wore shorts both indoors and outdoors though.

I presume Becky you got shorts instead of older fashion gym knickers though?

The arrival of trainers as an accepted footwear vs plimsolls was an issue I remember from PE.

I wonder if this webpage existed 30years ago what would people be discussing?

The subject of boys wearing vests or not wouldn't be "isn't it amazing it used to happen vs today" but maybe more "who's school is odd because they dont do barechest anymore?"

Maybe there would be debate about whether school should now allow shorts for girls vs gym knickers?

Maybe school might now allow trainers over plimsolls?

Maybe some schools are now doing more mixed lessons?

When I was at High School (early 2000s) we all wore trainers rather than plimsolls.

Most of our PE lessons were single sex, but we did have a few mixed lessons.

I wonder if this webpage existed 30years ago what would people be discussing?

The subject of boys wearing vests or not wouldn't be "isn't it amazing it used to happen vs today" but maybe more "who's school is odd because they dont do barechest anymore?"

Maybe there would be debate about whether school should now allow shorts for girls vs gym knickers?

Maybe school might now allow trainers over plimsolls?

Maybe some schools are now doing more mixed lessons?

Though some will disagree it just looked right to see the boys stripped to the waist for PE and Games lessons. The boys were told to strip off in the gym so there was a line of discarded vests visible through the rather large windows that ran the length of the gym I don't think too many in my years at school objected to the attention they received from us and we'd regularly see them in the gym with sweat on their upper bodies. A lot of boys also agreed they preferred being stripped off than having a sweat soaked vest on.

So many people over 40 post similar type of experiences on here so it is welcome and almost a surprise when somebody else pops up who is considerably younger than most commenting here and doubly so when you have something rather similar to say.

I'm 24 and have not long left uni in Sheffield where I did a sociology degree. I had thought about doing sports sciences at one point. I lived in Driffield in East Yorkshire and went to the local school by the same name there. When I was there I had to take PE showers in a communal changing room in a communal shower (no clothes at all - 100% nude) when we had finished doing PE. The only time I didn't have to do that was when I stayed on in the sixth form but that was only because I no longer did PE. My younger brother is ten years younger than me and still goes to the school and he still has to take showers after PE right now. It was compulsory and we always had to bring towels with us with our PE kits and my brother still does. Just incase anyone thinks that these days we could wear shorts in the shower at school to spare our blushes you are wrong, that was not allowed. I've read a lot of much older people on here spell out what they did and it seems just about identical to me really.

On the subject of not wearing any shirts for PE, we did wear tops much of the time but sometimes when we were told to take them off for team games or other reasons when we all did it the same it was so unusual that it really did feel like quite a big deal. I don't think modern boys are really very different to the previous couple of generations really, I think we are all similar behind the mask. I think I did five or six PE lessons each year without the top on. I never saw any open resistance to any of the things I've described and we always knew what to expect from the website which set it all out clearly at the time, which is at least the big difference compared to older people who were at school in the last century.

I agree with Michelle's comments about changing social norms regarding clothing etc.
When I was at High School in the early 2000s we wore shorts for PE the same as the boys. Unlike the boys we were able to wear tracksuit bottoms or leggings for outdoor games.
However my mum told me that she had to wear regulation PE knickers for indoor PE and a PE skirt for outdoor games. They also had compulsory showers, which we never did.

Even at Primary School there were differences. In mum's time boys and girls changed in the same classroom right through Primary, whereas we changed in separate classrooms from the age of about 8 onwards.

The bodies in the photo look mighty fine. I wish I could have done PE like that in school. It's the perfect way to do it.

I was so carefree at school when I was 7. I didn't mind what I had to take off and in front of who. Fast track another 7 years and where had that little boy gone, as I'd become completely obsessed with how I looked and couldn't stand going shirtless for PE and skipped the showers at any available chance I could get, all I could see were imperfections in myself and perfection in everyone else. PE seemed to make me unhappy in my own skin and constantly comparing myself against everyone else I was able to see, on the sports field, in the gymnasium, the changing room, the showers, you name it. If we could take our 7 year old persona and keep it that way many of us would stay a lot happier for a lot longer and less bothered about how we are judged by others, and PE is one of those things that does it relentlessly in your teens. I wonder if anyone else was going through this continual comparing themselves against the others too and in what ways?

Michelle, I remember being at junior first school in the early 1970's when we did quite light exercises mainly to music in our PE where both the boys and the girls did not wear any tops and were all the same. We would have been about 6 and 7 then, everyone had shorts much the same as each other. Even at that very very young age in those lessons I looked at the girls beside me and remember thinking it was unfair they were the same as the boys and that they shouldn't be, even though there was obviously not much difference at that age. Our lessons were all taken by ladies too who you might have thought would have been more sympathetic to girls rather than boys. But we were all treated exactly the same for that short period of time. I got into empathising with others at a very young age clearly. We all changed into and out of our clothes in the same space together as well without any gender divisions. By age 8 it was dramatically different up at middle school.

Michelle, if it's any consolation you weren't alone. Our girls at middle school got to wear shorts and t-shirts like the boys (mostly) but felt a backwards step in terms of uniform (as did the boys mind) at the next school at they reverted to a more old fashioned t-shirt and gym knickers combo, so probably felt the same way if not more so!

Social standards of clothing really have changed haven't they! I remember at school in the 80s we still had to wear blouses and gym knickers for indoor PE and games in the summer, which we did not enjoy wearing, especially on the occasions we had lessons with the boys. We never understood why we couldn't wear shorts like they did!

Ivan, Your post on the 3rd very much tallied with experiences I had especially at primary, but the difference being I attended a middle school too which gave us a taste of a 'proper' PE kit a bit earlier. Despite this upgrade in PE kit on moving to upper school the kit was a little smaller which felt a kind of step backwards at the time.

Jacob, I remember the school summer holidays. As you say going out in the morning and staying out until late afternoon. Sometimes when it was hot we would go as a group of lads across the fields to a secluded river, Strip off and jump in wearing nothing and letting the sun dry us off afterwards.
There was no inhibition however we were not only school mates we were in the same Scout Group and when we went on Scout camps we would be sharing a tent so were used to undressing in front of each other.

Ivan, responding to your football comment.

In my younger days of the early 1980's I played on a Saturday morning youth football team in a small competitive little local league for boys under fourteen. I played for about eighteen months until the age ceiling was reached. It was fun while it lasted, although I never did anything similar afterwards for the older age groups and the budding England footballer that some in my family fantasised about simply had a rather more straightforward occupation in accountancy.

Shorts in those days really were shorts. They went nowhere near the knees. We always played in short sleeved football tops, not long sleeves, apart from the goalkeeper. Our socks were not too long either, certainly not to the knees. I had to remind myself with a check on one or two photo's from 1984 I have.

Many of the pitches we played on were at local youth clubs and such places and the occasional school ground in the main. So much of them were not kept that well maintained by today's expected standards and could be a right old state of uneven grass, patches of earth and grass, water puddles and such like. I remember very many filthy goal mouths for instance.

Our parents would often come along to these things and get over enthusiastic, some things never change with that. Mainly the dads were the weekly regulars, especially if they'd brought us along, sometimes picking up others on the way. It was the dads that took it more seriously than the boys which in some cases began putting one or two off when it stopped becoming as fun.

We'd often get so wet and messy with mud soiling our shorts, shirts, socks, boots and our actual selves that the last thing parents wanted to do was put us in the car and make a mess of the car furnishings as well so most of the time, even on the not so mucky days we'd clean up at wherever we played football and most of the places we played, even the youth clubs had changing rooms that included washing facilities and even showers that we could use, which we did.

There was no paranoia about any of this. The boys on both sides would share the changing room all together, there was no choice in most places anyway with just one place to do so. Nobody seemed especially bashful and you would see most of us stripped down out of our football kit and walking about without tops on, and naked because we were coming and going to the showers that were available to us. During this time many of the male parents would also be hanging about in the changing room with us or close by outside the door, with little or no concern for anybody's personal private space or privacy and walking in and out on us whether we were dressed or actually getting showered with nothing on at all. Most parents stayed outside but there was always about half a dozen actually wanting to be in the changing room with us. Now I don't think there are too many twelve or thirteen year olds who would be keen on their parents seeing them with nothing on but the dynamic of being in a large group of boys on those Saturday football teams in the early 1980's kind of made us braver about such things and I didn't worry too much about it.

It's not just the football team either. I spent a lot of spare time away from Saturday football with a group of the boys, all from various classes in school and have memories over summer months of hanging around with them often in groups of four or five when none of us even bothered wearing any tops at all, sometimes even leaving the house to meet them or when they called and going off not even taking a top along just incase. We'd go down town and hang around the park, ride our bikes around and some weekends could be out all day from breakfast until teatime shirt free and bare chested like it on quite a few occasions. I have photo's of myself and four others lined up on our bikes in our road and we all look happy in small pairs of shorts and trainers, stripped off on top completely. I think one of the mothers took it.

I think the five of us went out on a hot day in the summer hols and impulsively chose to see a film at our towns long gone one screen old style cinema with pocket money just before the explosion of the multiplexes of the late 1980's and we were all allowed in and went in without a top on into a hot un airconditioned old cinema. I think it was 1983. We watched War Games, five shirt free lads in the cinema, care free with just our sweets and a bit of loose change on us in our shorts. I also watched Superman III around about that time too. But when we left and congregated back at my house and said what we'd done my dad who was also on holiday from work was furious that we'd spent time inside a cinema on a nice sunny day instead of being outside doing something and when my mum joined him she agreed we should be outside doing things in the fresh air and saving cinema for a rainy day. Neither cared about how we went around dressed like or to the cinema.

A totally different attitude from a period which really is not that long ago at all in the scheme of things. It seems so much healthier to me than the clammed up fear of everything that prevails and is indoctrinated now. Those boys like me who did these things are now the same adults and fathers that seem to have inflicted a self conscious, bashful and paranoid outlook on our own offspring even if we've tried not to do so.

I've heard so many people lately talking about simpler days of the past. When I think of simpler days I think of 1880's and centuries long past, not 1980's and within our still young lifetimes. We haven't realised what we have lost until we've lost it.

I hope you found it worth reading.

Nigel
With regards to your closing comments about footballers almost completely clothed. I saw a similar thing recently at a junior football match at our local recreation ground. As the teams came off the pitch the boys all wore long sleeves long socks which almost reached their long shorts. I wondered are the youngsters going soft or most probably following the fashion as seen like you on television. It seems that they cannot stand the cold. Although if you are running around playing football you should feel warm.

That Huntley clip looked just like lessons I took at those ages.

My school years were 1969-1981.

Not sure how unusual my own situation was but I did compulsory barechested PE in the infants school from the age of 5 until 8, then again in my middle school from 8 until 11 and at my comprehensive from 11 until near to 16. Every indoors lesson I can remember at infants and primary, and rather a lot at comprehensive. At the two lower schools everything was shared boys/girls, and just now and again at the comprehensive. Outside was a mixture at all three schools of tops or nothing. I took compulsory showers in both my primary and comprehensive. All the schools had two lessons each week. So I guess I didn't have much time to get funny about these kind of things and it all felt quite normal but as I got older I didn't like sharing PE with the opposite sex if I didn't have any top.

I don't know of any explanation that was ever given to us about the reasons we did things that way. It was just how it was, you're told to do something and you do it and don't reason with it very hard.

I do wonder if everyone would have a much better self image if they all went through school doing things the way I did instead of obsessing about covering up. I saw a recent football match on TV where the both teams were completely covered up, the only skin exposed was the face and hands, the socks were so long they were to the knee and the shorts so long they went to the knee, meeting the socks, and they were all in long sleeves, some wearing gloves!

Chris G, Likewise I don't remember many objections when vests came off other than a few grumbles about going barechested outside during winter. No-one really minded being barechested indoors. Our PE teachers really made us sweat so it made sense. I'm guessing your teachers were of the same ilk.

Re the clip of the primary school. When I was at primary/junior school we did not have specific clothing for pe. The boys all wore grey shorts and for the lesson we simply removed our shirts and we did the exercises in our vest and shorts. The girls simply removed their dresses and exercised in their under wear. That was how it was. I agree however that when I went to secondary school, that there was a feeling of growing up as we now had to change into gym kit. No top was worn indoors and no underpants and plimsols and no socks.
The next "taste of freedom" was going to Scout camp and being away from parents when we went to bed it was felt daring to sleep in just our pants and not wear the "nightwear" that according to the camping list we had to take with us.

Don, it's a long time ago, no, but I seem to remember that it was the health aspect of going bare-chested that was stressed when topless PE was introduced after I had been in secondary school for a coupe of years. Contrary to the experience of many posters here, much, I don't remember anyone (in my class at least) objecting to the new order of things, in fact I think we all relished the freedom from clingy restrictive clothing.

This is a link to a piece of colour footage of a gym and school playground, taken at an unnamed primary school in 1981:

https://www.huntleyarchives.com/preview.asp?image=1041996

Huntley Archives are a business, but state they are happy for members of the public to view the watermarked low-resolution previews on their site, such as the one above. The 1981 date is on the clapperboard at the start of the playground sequence.

Was at school until 1995 and going barechested in the gym was mandatory. We were told it was healthier and more appropriate for physical exercise

Bernard, it sounds quite plausible this rumour was in fact had some truth in it. I remember do less apperratus based lessons as the year went on, but whether that was the trend anyway or driven by safety worries I have no idea. I have also heard the trend toward a more mixed PE lessons forced changes to more modest kits was another driver...again I don't really know unless anyone else does?

Andy - I had heard that as well - apparently there had been one or more accidents reported when a boy's shirt got caught in the parts connecting apparatus to the wall. In addition I heard that the momentary loss of vision caused by a shirt falling over a boy's face during an inversion could also be dangerous due to reduced spatial awareness.

Back on the 17th Robbie mentioned his amazement anyone over a certain age would have never experienced barechest PE.
It was an experience I also encountered into the 1990s, but with two different schools whereby one was it was the rule for all indoor lessons, and at the next it depended on what we were doing in that lesson.
I heard a rumour in that second school it was risky to do apparatus work with tops on, which might explain the ban on tops to a certain degree kept going for so long. Did anyone else hear anything like this as a reason?

Back on the 17th Robbie mentioned his amazement anyone over a certain age would have never experienced barechest PE.
It was an experience I also encountered into the 1990s, but with two different schools whereby one was it was the rule for all indoor lessons, and at the next it depended on what we were doing in that lesson.
I heard a rumour in that second school it was risky to do apparatus work with tops on, which might explain the ban on tops to a certain degree kept going for so long. Did anyone else hear anything like this as a reason?

Robbie, can I add Switzerland to your list of countries where topless PE, while not necessarily the norm, occasionally happened. I spent a couple of terms at school in Zurich in the sixties, and PE in the height of Summer was often "hemdli auf" (my Schweitzer Deutsch is a bit rusty now).