Hesketh Fletcher Gym Team

To Hugh.

Thank you for all the information you have been posting.

Can I ask you about the "lad and dad" situation? When they accepted to have an examination together, were they aware that they would both be naked or did they only find that out when they were actually undressing for you?

William, thank you for your reply.

You ask about young men and sensitivity.

After my time in the navy which I thoroughly enjoyed latterly as a ship's surgeon I moved to general practice which was differently demanding though still in the first line of practice which was not so different to being on a ship at sea. I am now retired though and have been for several years.

As you may well know far fewer men than women consult GPs and only do so when they have no other choice, at the time you would always take particular interest in a man with thin notes and be particularly thorough when he came to see you because you never knew what might be wrong.

In the nature of boys and young men you would see them mostly with childhood things and trauma injuries usually as a result of sport but then also sometimes for medical examinations.

Medical examinations presented in a few different ways.

First, some private schools required a pre-entry medical normally around the age of twelve or thirteen, this was most common at boarding schools.

Then you may recall a time when there were university grants that some local authorities required those seeking a grant to pass a medical exam before the grant would be paid, that has long died out but I had to have one myself before getting a university grant.

The next common group were men where pre-employment medicals were needed. That was a lot more common at one time than now and it died out because of disability discrimination, cost saving and the population being generally more healthy.

The last group was younger men taking out life insurance policies early in life and insurers used to insist on a medical before issuing the policy.

In all cases the appointment would be paid for privately and be for an hour in duration so it was plenty of time in comparison to the navy where I would examine thirty men in the same time.

I used to adopt the same approach to men's medicals in general practice as I had used in the navy and would have initial observations carried out by a practice nurse though the patient would remain fully clothed during that time.

For pre-boarding school and university medicals a lad would usually arrive with a parent, I would guess in over 90% of cases his father. As a practice we had a policy that if father was registered too we would offer him an examination too particularly if he had thin notes. Invariably they accepted.

Pre-employment and life insurance patients almost invariably came alone.

Once in the room I would explain what was to happen and ask the patient to undress. Most school age lads did just that and stripped off, it was more often the ones in their early twenties who thought strip off meant take off your clothes but keep your underpants on. In my direct naval manner I always dealt with that by telling them to step out of their underpants and we could begin.

When it was a lad and dad I always offered them the choice of take a turn or be examined side by side and almost always they opted for side by side, sometimes one or the other appeared shy but mostly they were quite comfortable.

My experience was that if a man was naked from the start of the exam he was not awkward when it was time to check testicles, the gluteal cleft and rectum.

While it's perfectly possible to check testicles with underpants at the knees or ankles, the gluteal cleft and rectum really need underpants off simply because if a man opens his legs before bending over he will feel less on the rectal examination and resistance to the finger will be significantly reduced. (One of the reasons rectal exams are seen as uncomfortable is a current fad for having the patient lie on their side. In that position, legs together and buttocks as good as clenched you need far more pressure to both spread the buttocks and insert a finger than you do legs well apart and bending over).

So, some degree of awkwardness among those in their early twenties among younger men but not really significant.

The next group you see are generally aged 50+ when waterworks problems are starting to kick in. Often that is an enlarged prostate (perhaps many posting here have one!) and of course the checks for that are also underpants down perhaps for the first time in thirty years. Most men coming to talk about waterworks reasonably expect an examination of penis and testicles, few know how a prostate is examined and so a rectal exam comes as a surprise but having had one, most are not bothered about a further one in due course. Of all the groups, it's older men who are least bothered but perhaps that will change over time.

Hugh
That's very interesting and clear, thanks. Many contributors who were at boys' schools in the '60s and '70s have remarked on how many young men today avoid at all costs being seen naked in gym and swimming pool showers and changing rooms.
Do you know whether this sensitivity has become a problem for doctors when young men present themselves with something that requires them to remove their underpants?
Like you, we had no notion of privacy at school but there are some today, including on this website, who demand an extreme form of modesty for boys that may make them cripplingly shy about their bodies.
I just wonder whether someone of your background had come across this and whether in practice it caused difficulties.

I was a boarding school boy in the 1960s and early 70s like many here, I started at seven in prep school and went all the way to eighteen and had many of the same experiences already described.

We slept in open dormitories, showered in communal showers both in the dormitory and sports centre, we not allowed underpants for sport of any kind and we swam naked in the pool though there were never outsiders present. Even on sports day there were no parents there mostly because school was for most of us a long way from home and not all parents were able to make the journey and often did not have a car.

I went on to study medicine and was for a time a navy doc so I can shed light on the posts of Philip and James if anyone is interested.

In the process of joining the navy as an undergraduate I experienced exactly the same sort of medical Philip and James describe and during my time in the navy carried out very many similar ones. It was a laid down procedure that we followed, I believe common to the armed services both at home and overseas and certainly while I spent some time with the RAN methods were no different.

So yes, we examined in groups of usually thirty and less on occasion if there were not thirty candidates but there were never less than twenty.

The main rationale for the method was speed. If I was seated in an examination room and men came in one at a time fully dressed then undressed and were examined and then dressed again before leaving I might have been able to examine fifteen to twenty a day. If they were lined up naked and waiting then I could examine thirty an hour so it was a much better use of my time to work in the way laid down.

I think it's true to say that because of conditioning at school most men were reasonably comfortable to be naked in a group and I was rarely aware of anyone who was not. In any event the orderlies would have ensured they were stripped naked and once naked would have checked temperatures, weights, heights, blood pressures and sight before I entered the room.

Examining body parts was also more efficient in terms of time than examining the whole candidate one at a time. Bearing in mind that you were examining what were in the main healthy young men you didn't really expect to find much wrong and it was rare that you did.

If you are working along a line first looking in sixty ears then thirty mouths followed by listening to thirty heart beats and sixty lungs you will soon see or hear even the slightest abnormality and the upper body really is about looking and listening. Only as you move below the waist does touch matter more so you feel for hernias then healthy testicles and finally probe for any internal rectal abnormality and again for instance to focus on the rectal exam you will soon feel anything abnormal as you probe thirty rectums in rapid succession even though you can of course see nothing but touch is everything.

There was also an element as has been pointed out about desensitising men during the examination. There's certainly a power dynamic when you are fully clothed and the man in front of you is naked and you are palpating his testicles and even more so when he's bending over for a rectal exam even if he is expecting it and much more so when he isn't but the handed down policy was not to explain but to examine.

James,
We wore the normal white cotton shorts with mid-thigh length, so modesty was not an issue.
I can understand your embarrassment at having to wear those semi-transparent brief nylon shorts for long cross country runs through villages or for PE with girls who were more modesty attired.
Even more so since you had to wear them without underpants on.
I think this would be one exceptional case where I have to agree with Mr.Dando concerning boys modesty, although I don't think he ever mentioned this particular PE kit which was mandatory for boys in some schools.

Biggles,when we wore shorts for PE when it was shared with girls and other games we were disadvantaged as apposed to the girls who were more appropriately dressed for our sporting activities.The older boys at our school wore shorts that were the same brevity as the junior boys and could be humiliating at times,especially on long cross country runs through villages when our shorts did little to protect our modesty.
Did you wear your shorts with disdain?

Thank you for your comments Phillip. I was sipped as a bay apparently it was usually quite normal when I was born. I had no idea that I was any different or that there was a mixture of circumcised and normal in our class. It was only in later years that some of us realised that we had been done, that we noticed.
William with regards to your comments about handstands, I remember these well. Having a partner holding your legs and being completely exposed. Our pe teacher had another exercise and that was to sit on the floor with a partner with our feet touching. We then had to grasp each other wrists and rock back and forward as if in a rowing motion. As with handstands everything was on view. But no one ever made a comment or as I remember worried about it.

With regards to sleeping at Scout camp, the kit list issued to parents included pyjamas or change of clothes for bed. Although the leaders expected us to change into pyjamas, they did not check. I think what happened the patrol I was in had some sort of competition amongst ourselves and the loser had to do a forfeit. someone was dared to sleep naked and then it followed that we all did. As far as I know only in that tent. I was brought up jointly by my dad and nan( mother died when I was young) Although dad had served in the war as was more relaxed nan made the rules and at home I certainly would not be able to sleep naked at home. So really at camp it was an opportunity to "flout the rules" Furthermore, puberty for me was a late onset and I was kept in tight grey shorts until 13 whilst most other boys were in longs. That was not up for discussion with Nan.

Josh,

I suppose when the doc said I should be snipped I was nervous about what was involved. I had had school medicals before and nothing was ever said, testicles were examined and you coughed but that was about it. I was eleven on this occasion and it was a different doc who was a bit younger and more thorough. I didn't know that a foreskin was meant to retract so had never tried so when the doc asked me about it I was clueless. He told me what to do and it was impossibly tight and he said I should have some of the skin removed and carried on with my testicles as normal.

I didn't say anything when I got home because I didn't know what to say but a few days later a letter arrived from the hospital with an appointment. I pleaded (in vain) not to go but along we went one morning, I remember being on a trolley, going to sleep and then waking feeling very numb in my groin. Peeing was painful and when the dressing came off I was quite shocked but I got used to it quickly enough.

My memory was that six of us out of a class of thirty were snipped and there was much curiosity in the showers for a few weeks then it all settled down to be normal.

I agree about lads at the gym though they must get used to communal changing rooms because everyone aged 25+ seems quite happy to use them, it's only the younger lads who aren't and the same in the showers, the youngsters go to the two cubicles there are while everyone else uses the communal ones.

Josh - you wrote:
"As well as my experiences at school, I was a scout for many years and when we went to camp there normally 6 boys to a tent and again we got used to undressing for bed when most of us slept in the nude."

Sounds very progressive, Avant Garde even, for teens in the 1960's. Was this in the UK, and did you normally sleep nude at home?

Josh H, interesting comment that you slept in the nude at scout camp back in the 1960s. How did you sleep at home?

Phillip
I was at an all boys secondary school in the same era as you i.e 1961 till 1966.I remember that on my first day as a small 11 year old the eldest lads form 5 who were coming up to 16 looked liked giants. My elder brother was at the school but he did not want to know his young kid brother. At least I could find out some things about school when we were at home.So I was aware that pe would be shorts no pants and black plimsolls no socks. However, it still seemed strange the first time we had pe having to strip off and change in a communal changing room. Previously at Junior school boys did pe in their grey school shorts and singlet.
However it did not take long to get used to it and realise that although we were all boys there we differences in body shape.
I also remember the school medicals especially the cough test for the testicles. The examination never included a check of the penis. When you were snipped was it traumatic? As well as my experiences at school, I was a scout for many years and when we went to camp there normally 6 boys to a tent and again we got used to undressing for bed when most of us slept in the nude.
AS you say all of these experience stood as good stead for later life. Like you I had water problems and ended up having a catheter up mu penis for 7 months. This had to be changed regularly until I had an operation which was done through my penis. Like you I think over the years we were accustomed to being seen and examined and so there was no embarrassment when ~I doctors examining and operating on me in those areas.
Nowadays when I go to the gym I am happy to change in the communal area, but many of the younger lads "disappear" into the toilet cubicles to change.
It seems that nowadays youngsters are not comfortable with communal changing areas.

James,
I remember those satin short shorts which were popular in the 70s for PE and other sports. They were also very tight compared to the loose cotton shorts we wore previously at our schools.
Having to wear them without any underwear, as you mention at your school, would have been quaint indeed since they were often semi-transparent. More so if you had mixed PE or competed in some sports in front of or together with girls.
I am sure that they were a distracting sight for girls. :)

For those surprised about men and boys swimming naked you only need to go back to Victorian times to find it normal.

Victorian bathing machines were well known contraptions in which women went to bathe in the sea dressed in neck to ankle swimming suits that were loose and not revealing and it was topped off with a cap.

Meanwhile further along the beach men would strip naked and swim either alone or in groups with their mates with no sense of the improper about them or what they were doing.

@Philip, very interesting what you write about being desensitised - I guess we all were to a point though perhaps not as extremely as you. I don't know how the boys of today would cope! Given the times though what you say makes perfect sense.

Biggles, I meant to say 'quaint custom'.

I think @James on 3rd April 2020 makes a very valid point about boys being desensitised about being naked together from an early stage and not being shy about it.

In the 1960s there was definitely an expectation of World War 3 on the horizon though it faded as time went on. Many male PE teachers were ex military PTIs who had done National Service and they were very much perhaps all one of a kind otherwise why in schools across the land were lads ordered to take off their underpants and go commando and whacked when they didn't?

In those days we were also used to school medicals lined up in our underpants to go into see the doc and dropping them once we were in the room to have penis and testicles checked. I was one of a number of lads sent to be snipped because my foreskin did not roll back as easily as the doc said it should.

I was in the military too for a while though in my case in the Army. I recall the same sort of medical James describes where we were 'processed' in groups of about thirty. There was no privacy, no dignity and certainly no warning of what was about to happen. There were docs and orderlies who were note takers who also gave gruff orders about what was required, the doc almost never spoke and for instance to look in your ears he would simply pull the one he wanted forcing you to turn your head. There were often additional observers in the room in what capacity I don't know and you certainly couldn't ask but you got used to being naked in front of other men who were also naked and men who were fully dressed very quickly.

The routine was that everyone stripped and lined up in alphabetical order, the doc and orderly moved along the line doing the same check on everyone before beginning again with a different check, notes were made but it was the orderly the doc spoke with, not you. Other than we were in a line up it wasn't so different to a school medical or the one I had before university until we were ordered to bend over with our hands clasped behind our necks and our elbows touching our knees and feet shoulder width apart. Maybe I was naive but I had no idea what was coming even as the orderly pressed down on my shoulders keeping me firmly in place. Feeling my buttocks being spread was a shock, the insertion of a finger a bigger one. I guess if you had been at the beginning of the line there might have been some lube on the glove the doc wore, half way along it had certainly worn off and wasn't replaced so there was nothing gentle about it.

Medicals always followed the same routine although you later knew what to expect and of course we got used to it.

There was no privacy in the early years either, we slept in open dormitories, there were communal washrooms where even the toilets had no partitions let alone the showers though men were used to communal showers from school.

One of the things we were told was that in enemy hands you often would be forced to strip naked and subject to a search and maybe have to remain naked for a period of time all part of breaking us down for interrogation. The thinking was we were desensitised to this by the things we were subjected to and I think it worked because being naked in front of other men does not bother me to this day.

About a year ago I was having some waterworks trouble and went along to see my GP who is about 35, he said he would prescribe me a tablet (which has been very helpful) and then with a huge sense of awkwardness he said he needed to do a rectal examination and was that alright. I told him to get on with it and dropped my trousers and underpants and bent over without any sense of embarrassment and barely felt his check so my desensitisation still serves me well!

Like Chris and Michael I too started to wear a jockstrap whilst in the 6th Form in the late 60s. Until then it had been commando for sport and PE. Then we boys found that we needed the extra support rather than everything swinging around. I continued wearing one through sports at college and later. Even at my age now I still wear one for exercise at the gym and when riding my bike. It is really comfortable. I also, whilst in the 6th, along with my friends,wore one under shorts in hot weather. That is something else that I still do.

Biggles,we wore satin shorts for PE in four different colors
to distinguish ourselves from the different school houses.
We wore our shorts without any form of underwear which I found difficult to get accustomed to this quaint as our shorts were so short.

James E, my experience entirely. Swimming trunks were regarded as only an alternative underwear for those that hadn't yet round to purchasing a jockstrap. But once you bought your jock no one ever back to wearing swimwear!

Michael
I would say it was 50 50 re boys wearing jockstraps/ swimming trunks re rugby, but I would think more boys moved over to wearing a jockstrap the okder they got and especially with other sorts of sport

Michael
I would say it was 50 50 re boys wearing jockstraps/ swimming trunks re rugby, but I would think more boys moved over to wearing a jockstrap the okder they got and especially with other sorts of sport

There have been a few comments recently about boys wearing support under sports kit, PE kit etc.
Quite a number have stated that they went commando and knew nothing of supporting underwear.
When I was at school in the 60's it was quite commonplace to wear swimming trunks under our rugby, PE kit or whatever. This didn't only apply at my school but was fairly widespread. It always surprises me that so very few have mentioned this habit.
We certainly found them to be very comfortable and for rugby they most definitely added to our confidence. Something much needed during a tough match.
A few older boys started wearing jocks, but often in connection with cricket.
I'm always pleased to hear from others who want to share their experiences or observations.

I can't remember much about my Primary School PE classes, but I do remember that we generally just took off our shoes, socks and jumpers (if it was the time of year when we needed them) and kept on everything else, shirts, trousers/shorts, vests and underpants. The girls did similarly.

There were no no-underwear rules at either of the two secondary schools that I went to, but but most of us chose to go commando anyway. At some time in my third year in the first school, just after we switched to going topless, one lad got kicked in the "privates" during a rather boisterous team game session, at which point the PE master warned us about the dangers of going commando and advised us to either to wear supportive underpants or a jockstrap. I don't think any of us had ever heard of such a garment before, and none of us had even seen one, let alone owned one at that point.

I didn't get a jock until a few years later, when I moved to another school for my 6th form years, and found that most of my classmates wore them in preference to briefs or swimming trunks as support for athletic activities. And only for PE and games, as many of us got into the habit of wearing a jock as everyday underwear in hot weather.

Jeff,
My Ex felt the same way too; I always had to make sure there was a clean one ready when he was going to play football etc. In his case apparently it was their PE teacher who advise them all to get one.

I can remember our teacher having a similar conversation with a few of my classmates about needing support in a different area!

Biggles
In the 1980s i wore white nylon PE shorts, they where quite short and semi-transparent, cotton shorts where still about but few wore them. A no underpants rule was apllied for all activities, although most lessons where boys only i do remember an after school gym club which was mixed.

Jeff
Don't think any boy would think differently would they?

Jockstraps were on our school games kit list. I certaily would not have wanted to do pe, go running, play rugby etc without one.

Certainly my boys' experience and my husband's

Andrea,

I honestly cant remember what we wore for pe at primary school, it was a long time ago! we had black plimsoles with elastic not laces but what we took off / changed into I am not sure. There was 'apparatus' in the school hall. Older boys (after I had left) played football on the field.

Jockstraps were on our school games kit list. I certaily would not have wanted to do pe, go running, play rugby etc without one.

Biggles,
In the 1970s we wore white short cotton shorts and no underwear for PE; the shorts were quite short like footballers started to wear in the 70s. We just wore shorts and pumps no tops allowed.

Dave,
Nothing unusual there ... l started wearing a jockstrap for sport at 14 mainly because the other boys did. Never regretted it though and still prefer to wear one when l go running even at my grand old age :=)

About PE shorts.

The boys in the picture, which is probably from the 50s, they are wearing long, almost knee length, shorts, which is probably cotton
We wore the same kind of shorts at our school in the 60s except that they were shorter.

It seems that from the 70s the very short, nylon type shorts were more popular in some schools.
It also seems that this trend was reversed a few decades later when many kids today are wearing tracksuit trousers for PE.

What type of PE shorts did you guys wear at school?