Hesketh Fletcher Gym Team

Biggles,we were not allowed to wear any form of underwear under our shorts for PE and games and our shorts were were inordinately brief unlike the ones in the picture.
I also wore short trousers for school and home as this was my mother's preference,although they were not compulsory for school.

Biggles - At primary school p.e. was segregated in the last couple of years and the boys wore a pair of black shorts with no shirt and no footwear inside, sometimes plimsolls outside, other times barefoot. However, I think we kept our pants on under our shorts.
At secondary school it was made clear that we wore shorts only - no shirt, no footwear and no underwear. As others have said hygiene was given as one reason - it would have been pretty unpleasant to put sweaty pants back on after our shower. Also, so we were told, it was good for boys to have plenty of fresh air and not get too hot in that area.
Things did bounce around as we got older but I don't think it bothered any-one even on cross-country runs where we were more concerned with where we put our feet. I rather enjoyed the feeling of our minimalist kit.
I too didn't hear about jock straps until long after I left school.

Biggles, the reason for no underpants was hygiene. In the gym or running or doing athletics you sweated, playing rugby you got dirty and sweated.

Back then mothers did not have automatic washing machines and underpants were generally white cotton Ys. My mother certainly would not have appreciated several extra pairs to wash and iron.

There was supposed to be a second reason back in those days. World War 3 was expected and men in numbers would be called up and forced to live in basic military conditions, it was considered better that we were comfortable together when naked and in no way shy in front of other men and for most that desensitising worked, a few probably remained uncomfortable but the majority weren't bothered by for instance communal showers and stripping naked.

I joined the navy for a while after university and from the pre-entry medical group nudity was the norm where we were lined up naked and examined with no privacy at all including examination of penis with an order to skin back if necessary and testicles and then turning round and bending over for a first taste of a gloved finger. In the latter case there was no warning about what was to happen, I was just aware of the lad bending next to me gasping but no idea why and all of a sudden I was gasping too and my eyes watered followed closely by a gasp from the lad on the other side of me as the doc moved swiftly along the line.

At university and later when I had to do my own laundry I didn't wear underpants for sport or gym because I had extras to wash and anyway, I was used to going commando. I did have a jockstrap for rugby at university but I preferred to just hang loose and I thought I ran better that way. Sometimes something would slip out but no one took any notice. Even today it's not so unusual to see a bare bottom in a rugby tackle.

Hi, I started wearing a jockstrap at 16 for X country running after seeing other lads wearing them

Biggles
Hygiene is the answer. We were expected to work hard in gym. It made no sense putting sweaty pants back on after having a shower. Thus no pants. It was our drill from day one and I never heard anyone even mention it. The only time it crossed my mind was doing handstands when another boy would hold your legs. I never saw jockstraps until after I left school.

Jeff,
At primary school if you did not have proper pe kit, what did you wear, vest and pants or something else?

When it came to the 3rd form at senior school, were jockstraps included on the pe kit list sent home to parents or were you just told about them by your teacher?

What was the reason for not being allowed to wear underwear for PE?

At least they afforded some support, so it would have been illogical not being allowed to wear them.

The only reason I have heard was hygiene, but then our PE lessons only lasted an hour or 90 minutes at most, which I presume was the same for most schools. So this would not have been an issue.

I also cannot imagine boys doing long country runs in just shorts with everything dangling under their shorts, and I don't think that jockstraps were so common then.
From what others describe most say that they wore nothing under their shorts, even for cross country runs.

Biggles
At primary school we did not have proper pe kit; I left and went to Prep school (boarding) when I was 10. Here we had proper pe and games kit, underwear was not allowed. At the senior school again pants were not allowed, from 3rd form onwards jockstraps were worn.

Thanks to those who responded to my question about the order in which boys tended to get changed for PE. You've confirmed my view that it depended a lot on body confidence!
To answer Dave's question, I don't know if the shirtless PE rule was still widespread after mid 80s - but I know from friends and family who are slightly younger that it still existed in some schools more recently. Maybe not a blanket shirtless rule for boys but definitely shirts and skins at least.

At my (all boys) school we had three PE teachers, all men and I think ex-military PTIs, that was common in the 1960s and early 1970s.

There was a no underpants rule, PE was shorts and plimsolls only.

Two were younger and while strict, popular. They were fair, encouraged you but also whacked hard when you were out of line. They both wore white shorts and plimsolls as we did and you could tell that neither wore underpants.

The third teacher who was older was disliked. I suppose these days we would say he was burned out. He had brought forward a couple of good athletes who had won things at the Commonwealth Games and I think was satisfied with what he had done and was now all for an easy life. He often sent classes out to run alone rarely joining in anything. I do remember one summer day though when he did decide to participate in athletics which was track that day. I remember being fascinated to run behind him and realise that he was wearing a pair of very patterned brown and orange underpants under his shorts. Nylon Ys were becoming the fashion at the time and I remember wondering why a man who slippered lads mercilessly for wearing underpants was wearing underpants.

Of course no one dared ask.

For those who went to school in the 80's:
You have written you had a shirtless PE rule.
Was it widespread in the UK as far as the 80's? I've thought it was widespread only to the late 70's or early 80's.

Biggles
I do not remember our pe teacher checking as such to see if we were wearing pants under our shorts. As other people have said our shorts were white and very thin, if I remember correctly some of them were nylon The only style underwear worn at that time was normally white briefs and if worn under the shorts would have shown through. Over time, coloured briefs came into fashion and it certainly would not be possible to wear them under white shorts.
There was only one occasion that I remember one of the lads was silly enough(yes he purposely wore pants under his shorts why I don't know)and of course the teacher saw them So, in front of the class he had to remove his sorts go to the changing room and return in just shorts and then bend over and "receive" the slipper.
No one ever did any such thing again.

Biggles,
At secondary school, far from being made to remove our underwear, our indoor PE kit consisted of the regulation navy blue knickers we were supposed to wear under our classroom uniform and a white polo shirt. We were also allowed to wear our vests or bras under our polo shirts. However, at the end of the lesson we did have to strip off for a shower. Did you have to shower after PE / games?

At primary school both boys and girls wore their normal underwear beneath their PE kit. I know this because we had to change in the same classroom. Was this the case at your primary?
Towards the end of primary, most girls developed the knack of putting on their PE shorts or skirt before removing our skirts or dresses.

Simon
I was at a boys' grammar school in the '60s. For gym we wore shorts (no pants) without a top. How boys got changed reflected their confidence. At first I was shy and skinny and changed in the way described by Andy, even though we all saw each other nude in the showers. But the way the confident boys just stripped off looked more manly and after a while I followed their example. Hiding behind a shirt started to look more embarrassing than having nothing on.
For the shy boys getting changed for swimming was worse than gym. We went to the local pool and two boys changed in a cubicle designed for one adult. You can't dry yourself wearing wet trunks so you just had to take them off and get on with it. Modesty was impossible.
Biggles
We never wore anything under shorts: gym, rugby, hockey, athletics, cross country. I don't think we were inspected. None of us would have dared to disobey our gym master; he would have noticed in the showers. No top and no pants quickly became ingrained. It helped that it was the same for everyone.

I was a "top-off-first/top-on-last" dresser right from early childhood, probably responding to a domestic ethos of covering at least one's "rude bits" even if otherwise completely bare. In that respect, I was perhaps one of Simon's "confident boys" although as my mum, unlike Simon's, was rather keen on vests, until I was about ten I rarely went without one, except for the few weeks of the school summer holidays. And so it continued into secondary school, until the introduction of topless PE eliminated the need to take (or wear) a vest to PE classes and with it ultimately eliminated the need to wear a vest to school, or anywhere else, at all. I certainly had no issue with wearing just shorts and plimsolls for PE, and three years of topless PE certainly prepared me for my transition to boarding school and life in an open-plan dormitory, where nobody wore vests and where almost everyone slept bare-chested.

Biggles: we had a no underpants rule and PE shorts were thin and white so anything underneath was quite obvious. Periodically there would be a check when we all had to turn to the benches in the changing room and bend over and anyone wearing underpants had to take them off, step back into their shorts and stay bending over for a dose of the strap, six was normal and it stung so much I take my underpants off on autopilot to this day.

The PE teachers were often in the changing room when we were changing and any lad dithering over taking off his underpants would be reprimanded. Equally they were there when we were stripping for showers and if you were wearing underpants you were as good as caught.

It really wasn't worth the risk of the strap and I would say compliance was over 95% if not 99%.

To Josh and others who had the no-underpants rule for PE at their school.

Were there any inspections or supervision by the coach or teacher to make sure that no boys wore underpants under their PE shorts?

We only wore shorts for PE at my secondary school but we didn't have to take our underpants off.

Also, for the female posters here, were there any girls schools which applied this no-underpants rule for PE, or was it just for boys?

One last question, was this rule for boys ever applied in primary or junior schools, or just in secondary and other older boys schools?

Simon,
I too was at school in the 80s, I remember always getting changed for PE in the same order. Being shy I always took my trousers and underpants off first, that way my shirt offered me some cover while putting on my shorts. I always put my T- shirt on last. I noticed others changed their top half first and this left the lower half fully exposed while putting on their shorts. Some also changed sitting down, but I found shuffling into shorts a difficult so always stood to pull up my shorts.

I attended an all boys secondary school 1961 to 1966. I do not ever worrying about having to do pe with not top or just wearing shorts with no underwear and plimsolls with no socks. It just was that way. I suppose I was a bit ready for it because my elder brother attend the same school I already knew that when I went there it would be the same for me.

Rachael, to answer your question my mum didn't insist I wore a vest - I'm sure if I'd said I preferred to go without, she wouldn't have made a fuss. It just wasn't something I'd ever thought about but you're right, PE probably did influence me to gradually stop wearing a vest. I was 12 the first time I did PE barechested and probably started to leave the vest behind within a year.
One thing I remember noticing, as a general rule, was that the more confident boys tended not to wear vests. Also, they would often get changed for PE in a distinctive order - taking their school shirts off immediately to show their bare chests before even untying their shoelaces or anything like that. Then, if we were doing PE outdoors, the T shirt or football shirt was the last thing to go on. If PE was in the gym it was mandatory skins anyway.
Boys who were a bit more shy tended to change in a different manner and I was no different at first, anyway - I'd put on the rest of my PE kit and postpone taking my vest off until last.
Did anyone else find boys had a particular order for getting changed?

Rachael: Introduction of topless PE when I was about 13 had the unintended consequence, for me and for virtually all of my mates, in that instead of going to school wearing our vests, taking them off for PE and putting them on again after the lesson, we soon "forgot" put them back on and we generally went vest-less for the remainder of the day. Inevitably, it was then just a short step not to bother with a vest at all on PE days, and a further short step to not wearing one at all. Mum, always keen on kids wearing vests, even in summer, had been surprisingly encouraging when I first told her I wouldn't need a PE vest any more, but was less enthusiastic when she realised that I had stopped wearing them altogether, even in winter, as a direct result of this.

Hi Simon, did your mum make you wear a vest under your school shirt? I remember there were plenty of colours vests that lay discarded by those on the skins team. Did being picked to strip off to the waist influence to stop wearing one and what age were you when you stopped.

John, thank you for taking the time to reply to my post, it's appreciated

I was about 13 when topless PE was introduced in my school. The PE master gave us advance warning just before the summer holidays that from the beginning of the next term the only kit that we would require for indoor PE would be shorts and plimsolls, and actually asked what we felt about the change. I don't remember anyone, in my class at least, having any objections or reservations. As far as I can remember, all of us thought it a good idea and there was a lot of working on tans during the holiday months in readiness.

Unfortunately, after three years of topless PE at this particular school, I moved on to a boarding school because of family circumstances. Here, heavyweight cotton T-shirts and rugby shorts were required PE wear at all times, a ruling which concerted pleas by myself and a number of like-minded classmates to the headmaster and PE teacher failed to influence.

Simon, Rachael,
I totally agree with both of you that requiring boys to strip to the waist for PE was a good thing. I’m sure that the boys that I was at school with were more disciplined exercising bare chested and it helped to deal with any body issues that any of us might have had. I was a skinny kid but soon realized that I was amongst other skinny kids and lads who had weight issues. We tried harder at PE and did want to look look good as we got into our teens.

The skins team in shirts vs skins team games always seemed to work together and often beat the shirts. Making lads wear tops for PE is wrong if lads don’t want to wear them.

Rachael, you're absolutely right. Even when I was at school a lot of us boys had hang ups about our bodies and I suspect that problem is worse nowadays. I was initially shy about going barechested in PE because I had excess puppy fat. But there were other boys who found it difficult because they were worried about being too bony, or having acne, or later on having too much or not enough body hair... whatever it was, we all had to deal with our issues. I think in the long run it helped being required to strip to the waist. You wanted to look good, in front of the other boys as well as the girls - and later on it was such a confidence boost if you realised a girl was impressed by your body!
I don't know if others agree, but I think gping barechested also helped to make us more disciplined overall.

I agree with Danny. Following Mr.Dando's comments where is this all going to lead. Are we going to expect a return to the Victorian swimming attire and arrangements for male and female? The majority of males do not wear a top when they go swimming. Furthermore does he expect that men will be made to wear tops at all time even in the summer?
When swimming my preference is to wear brief style trunks and that should be my prerogative without anyone else saying what should be worn. Unfortunately, there are some people who want to dictate otherwise. Likewise it is up to individual schools and institutions to set out what should be worn as uniform or sports gear.

Mr Dando,

My reading of the original rules is that boys had the OPTION to go bare chested for indoor PE if they so wished, not that they were FORCED to. So it could be argued that the new rules are more restrictive. Similarly it has removed the option for year 4 to 6 girls to wear leotards if they wish to.

Mr Dando, surely encouraging boys to strip to the waist is a good thing. It would help reduce the do called hang ups with their physique and done in the safety of school and fully CRB checked teachers.

Mr.Dando,

Maybe your other campaign to make boys wear tops for swimming to cover their chests will also be adopted in swimming pools and for school swimming.
Who knows.

Mr Dando,
I completely disagree with you, boys are different from girls and this is a biological fact. Boys should be allowed to decide if they wish to wear a top or not for indoor PE; if boys prefer to do gym classes barechested they should be allowed to do so and not forced to wear a vest or t shirt.