Hesketh Fletcher Gym Team

No boy should be forced to ever have to do barechested PE and I'm glad my campaign stopped this school from having a shirtless rule for males. Here are the old rules:

http://larkshill.wakefield.sch.uk/school-uniform-2/

PE Indoor
• Girls R-Y3 - Navy/black leotards
• Girls Y4-Y6 - Navy/black leotards or white T-shirt and dark shorts
• Boys R-Y6 - Dark shorts and white T-shirt /bare chest

Here is the new gender neutral kit

https://larkshill.patrust.org.uk/school-uniform/

PE Kit
White round neck cotton t-shirt
Black shorts
Optional plain black tracksuit (to be worn during winter if needed)

It is optimistic to see that now children are self-isolating and doing PE from home pupils are no longer forced to have school showers or wear discriminatory PE kits.

We must use this hiatus in institutional schooling to repeal all mandatory shower rules such as this one:
http://www.corbridgemiddle.co.uk/uniform.html

Sportswear
Corbridge Middle School maroon shirt with school logo (compulsory)
Corbridge Middle School maroon shorts (compulsory)
Corbridge Middle School outdoor rugby top (optional)
Corbridge Middle School blue base layer top (optional)
Long socks for outdoor lessons
Trainers
Strong footwear (boots or trainers) for playing rugby/soccer/hockey (pupils should bring both types of footwear to outdoor lessons)

Towel (showers will be taken if the weather has been inclement or the ground muddy)

Please note. Earrings must be removed during P.E. lessons and sporting activities

Together we can make schooling a better experience for all kids!

Hi Simon, Although we had separate lessons we could still see boys in the gym due to the reinforced windows that ran the length the of the corridor so we were treated to a good view either of boys exercising or stripping off their vests at the start of a lesson. We did have a boys vs girls basketball and netball game each year normally in May. The boys always played as skins, it was a laugh but always was competitive. I always enjoyed seeing boys go topless for PE/Games lessons but it was good to see boys being able to demonstrate their masculinity. It's something that is sadly lacking in today's world.

Rachael,
I was 9 when the stripped to the waist for boys PE rule was introduced at Primary School. I felt self conscious just wearing shorts and pumps but after the second lesson I forgot that I wasn’t wearing a top and with the rest of the lads actually preferred it. At Senior School indoor PE was topless for gym, basketball was played with both teams shirtless and wearing different colored bibs.
Football was occasionally played shirts vs skins outdoors in winter if the PE teacher ran out of colored bibs, we were lined up and half of us told to take our shirts off. I got to enjoy playing football shirtless in winter, the skins team always seemed to gel better and work harder than the shirts.
For cross country some PE teachers made us run in shorts and trainers, but even if we were allowed to run in t shirts or vests many lads used to go topless anyway.

Hi Rachael, I was one of those boys who wore a vest under my school shirt during the 80s although not everyone in my class did! Interesting to hear your perspective on boys' PE kit,  I wasn't clear whether boys and girls did PE together at most of the schools you attended?
At my school it was usually separate PE classes for boys and girls, alternating between the gym and outdoors. Boys and girls wore the same kit outdoors - T shirt and shorts - but in the gym it was shorts only for boys. We did team games in coloured bibs or skins.
On occasions when the weather was really bad, outdoor PE was cancelled and we all had to squeeze into the gym together. Of course that meant us boys all had to take our T shirts off with the girls looking on and they certainly seemed to enjoy the spectacle! I remember feeling self conscious at first, along with many of the other lads, but as I grew into my mid teens I wanted to look good in front of the girls and having to go barechested probably made me work harder in PE.

John, I hope you don't mind me asking at what age did you first start to be stripped off for PE, what sports did you play when you were skins and did you not mind being topless when it was cold? Thanks for your time.

Rachael,
I think that it was good discipline and character building for lads to be stripped to the waist for PE/games, the policy didn’t do my brother and I any harm.

Danny,
Yes, at Primary both girls and boys wore T shirts and shorts for PE, with our normal underwear beneath.

Did the girls who had just started to develop get any comments / teasing from the boys (or the other girls for that matter)?

Andrea, I don't remember any girls wearing bras in primary school, even in last years at age 10-11.
A few may have had small breasts at that age but I think they were too small to require a bra.
As I said before we all wore vests under our shirts at school, both boys and girls, so girls with even small breasts could be seen under their vests when we changed for PE.
We all wore the same PE kit at primary school, both boys and girls, white shorts and white vest or t-shirt.
Did you have the same PE kit as boys in your primary school?

Hi Danny, I attended mixed secondary schools though due to my parents work we moved around quite a bit. One thing was constant though and that was boys doing PE/Games stripped off to the waist. My last school had lads from 13 to 18 stripped off both indoors and outdoors often when it was cold. Again teams of vests vs skins and just plain skins were very common. It must have been tough doing sit ups and other exercises on a bitingly cold winters day stripped off to the waist.

Jim,
When you say that both girls and boys wore shorts and vests for PE, do you mean your normal underwear vests or ones specifically for PE.

Danny,
Although most of my classmates only started to wear bras when they were at secondary school, a few wore them during our final year at primary. Was this the case at your school too?

Rachael, you are right, most boys and also girls wore vests under their school shirts when I was at school in the 60s.and it remained so till at least the 70s and 80s from what I remember.
The girls only started wearing the more loose t-shirts in secondary school when they started to wear bras.
So the other posters must be talking about today or more recent times. In which case I want to ask them what the kids wear today under their shirts.

I also wanted to ask you if you had mixed PE classes at school since you say that you girls preferred to see the boys doing PE bare chested and whether this was in primary or secondary school.

Back in the mid 80s a lot of boys wore vests under their school shirts. I remember at one secondary school I was at, boys were split into teams of vests vs skins, quite often the teacher had the whole class stripped to the waist for PE. I preferred to see all the boys be made to strip down, I imagine they'd prefer it too.

Sarah - Yes, I'm sure many kids would have stopped wearing vests before they start school but I wouldn't have thought it need be a problem for either boys or girls to do p.e. in just pants at that age.

The only downside of infants doing PE in vest and pants is that many kids have stopped wearing vests long before they start school.

"INDOOR - Infants
The children change down to vest, pants and bare feet for indoor P.E."

Mr.Dando, what is so outrageous in infant kids doing PE in vest and pants?
Little kids that age don't care what they are wearing and feel more comfortable doing indoor PE that way, which is also probably safer and healthier.
In primary school we did PE in just underpants till age 8 or 9. After that age in the last years of Primary we wore white shorts and vest, both boys and girls.

I remember back in the 1980's if a boy did not have his kit some were forced to do PE in just vest and knickers or they had to get something filthy and mouldy from the "lost property" box.

It is unbelievable that there are still some schools that degrade children by forcing them to do gym in just their underwear. Here is one such institution:

https://maryland.newham.sch.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/School-uniform.pdf

INDOOR - Infants
The children change down to vest, pants and bare feet for indoor P.E.

This is cruel to force kids to PE in such a manner and bare feet where they can get verruca and other foot diseases. Lets us stop this outrage!

Anna,
Did your PE teachers give any reasons as to why they didn't allow girls to wear any tops for PE?
Also, did any parents object?

With regard to vests, mum usually insisted I wore one, except in warm weather. The styles didn't change much from when I started school (just before I was 5) until I started to wear a bra (at the start of my second year at secondary school).
Teen bras then were just scaled down versions of what our mums wore, so going from a vest to a bra seemed like a big step.

As I mentioned, by niece didn't want to wear a 'childish' vest by the time she was about 8, possibly influence by some of her friends, whose mums had bought them the half-vest styles. The first ones Sis bought for her looked just like half a vest, with elastic round the bottom, but subsequent ones became shorter, with thinner, adjustable straps, but still a pull-on style.

I remember a little teasing, but as everyone was in the same boat it was minimal. Yes, it probably was a little easier for the boys to be in their pants than it was for us, given that we didn't wear tops.

At middle school I think we all wore vests, bras or nothing under our uniforms. I don't recall seeing anyone in a "half bra", though wearing one wouldn't have made any difference to our PE teachers.

Andrea,

We all got changed together in the classroom for PE.

As far as I remember most of the girls did wear vests, though might've been more like half vests as you mentioned. My memory's gone a bit fuzzy on that part.

Swimming lessons were at a local public pool so obviously we got changed separately for them.

Mike,
Did boys and girls get changed for PE together when you were at primary school and if so did most of the girls wear vests?

When I was at primary in the 1960s, we did change together and I did wear a vest.
By contrast, when my son was at primary, boys and girls started to change in separate areas from the age of about 9 and he rarely wore a vest.

When my niece was about 7 or 8, her mum (my sister), bought her some half vests as she didn't want to wear a vest (which she regarded as childish).

I am also surprised that there were schools like Anna mentions where they made boys and girls do mixed PE at age 12 and 13 in just pants, which I assume to mean just normal underpants,
Even as a boy I would have felt embarrassed at that age wearing just underpants for mixed PE class, which were normally cotton or nylon briefs in those days and I was in secondary school at that age. We just wore the normal white vests and shorts for PE.

Anna, was there any teasing between the boys and girls about doing PE in just pants?
I assume it was more embarrassing for the girls being seen by the boys in just underpants at that age, though not much less so by the boys.

Hi Anna,
I remember our teacher telling a few of my classmates that they should start to wear bras for PE, so it seems ironic that yours made girls remove theirs!

Anna,

I'm surprised they made girls take bras/vests off in mixed classes. Can't imagine how embarrassing that would've been.

You also mention your mum insisted on you wearing a vest. Mine did as well (I was at primary school early to mid 1990s). Brings back memories of how embarrassing it was getting changed and often finding myself the only boy wearing one. Haven't worn them since.

Hi Mike and Andrea

I don't know what my old school does these days but I'd e shcoked if they still make the pupils do PE in just their pants! Like you say, I don't think even many infant schools do it now. I left middle school in 1995.

Yes, when I say "just in pants" that's literally what I mean - we weren't allowed vests even if we wore them (I did, my mum insisted!), an even the girls who had started wearing a bra had to take them off and do the lessons in JUST their pants! I didn't wear a bra at middle school, I didn't habve anything to put in one! But quite a few of the girls in my year, especially in our last year, did, and I guess for them it was uncomfortable as well as embarrassing as it was for us all. Even though I didn't need a bra, I had started to develop a bit and I was always really aware of my nipples standing out as I ran around the gym topless!

Anna,
Like Mike I would be surprised if any schools made pupils do PE in just their pants nowadays. The only exception may be children in reception class, but even this must be rare.

When were you at middle school?
I'm assuming that when you say "just in pants", you weren't allowed to wear a vest or similar? That must have been both embarrassing and becoming uncomfortable by he time you left Middle School at 13?
Although I was still flat-chested when I left Primary School at 11, I was wearing a bra when I started my second year at Secondary (which would be the same as your last year at Middle School.

Wouldn't have thought any schools would dare make kids do PE in just their pants these days

I don’t know if many schools now make boys and girls do PE together in just their pants, but as your say or used to be quite common. I went to infants school then onto middle school until age 13.

At middle school we were basically treated in PE as though we were still at infants. Although we had bigger and more impressive apparatus, were still did lessons in mixed classes and we still had to do them in just our pants! The rule applied to all our indoor lessons so it included gymnastics, dance, circuits and even occasionally things like volleyball.

Emma,
I agree that it is no big deal for boys to be topless for PE, especially if it is just a boys class.
They usually showered naked all together after PE class anyway.
But do you think that it is OK to make boys and girls in primary school do PE in just underpants, which was very common in many schools?
I wonder if this is still allowed today.

I also agree that a school is a safe place if they have the proper supervision at all times.

John, You are absolutely right. Schools are the safest places to give the boys experiences they may not otherwise get. The boys are in a protective environment in the gym so exercising topless shouldn't cause any issues, anxiety or fear. It's not unjust, sexy or anything like it, going topless is simply the most effective way for boys to exercise in the gym throughout school.

Mr Dando,

Schools have a duty to educate children and teaching the importance of good personal hygiene is essential for a child’s wellbeing. After doing gym or playing sports children will have become hot and sweaty and will require a shower in order to maintain their personal hygiene.

Your suggestion that children should be able to opt out of taking a shower after sports is a bad one. You will create a division between those children who are perfectly happy to have a shower after sports and those who choose to opt out. That situation could provide an environment for bullying to take place, bullies have a tendency to pick on children that they consider to be vulnerable and those who do not conform.

Parents are not forced to send their child to a school with rules that they disagree with. Headteachers and School Governors should be able to formulate policies and rules which they consider to be in the best interests of their children. there is no need for every school in the country to be exactly the same.