Hesketh Fletcher Gym Team

Hi Jack

There wasn't much privacy really I guess. The dividers were the kind you may have seen in sports halls with the bottom couple of metres made of thick plastic type material and the rest up to the ceiling made of netting. We occasionally saw into the other half of the gym but not very free. Also, we entered and left the gym at slightly different times to the boys so there was no mixing then.

Our dance lessons were also single sex. They weren't ballroom or anything that needed a male partner but were more modern dance and ballet.

In reply to John I remember yhe grey school shorts. I wore them until I was about 13 in secondary school. One of the few still waering them at that age. They were tight and very short and they were worn during winter as well. However,we survived. By way of interest does any one know why we were not allowed tp wear underpants under our shorts for PE. I presume in this modern day & age underwear is worn

Pete, we also wore those nylon shorts that you mentioned, without the benefit of underwear and no vests and we had to go bare foot for gymnastics. The thin nylon shorts were so thin that any under wear was clearly visible if anyone was foolish enough to wear them and they became translucent when wet.
Short trousers could be worn, if parents chose to compliment the uniform as my parents did. Unlike board shorts these were trim and were worn well above the knee throughout the year.

Just catching up with the postings a bit late I know but Andy & dave 9/10th Nov. At my all boys ssecondary school which I attended 1961 t0 1966 When I was 16 Our pe kit was sorts only ( no pants) indoors and out. Teams were distinguished by wearing sashes in the colour of our house. Re deterent to waering pants, this was the threat of the slipper. WE wore white nylon shorts which were thin and any pants worn would be visible. Having said this I remember one lad was silly enough to take the risk and he was caught out. He was called out to the front of the class instructed to go and remove his pants and come back suitably attired in shorts only. When he had done this, to remove one of his plimsolls with which he was "slippered" several times acroos a taut backside in thin shorts. IT NEVER HAPPENED AGAIN!
Also during this time coloured briefs were coming into fashion so would have been clearly seen under any shorts.

It always seemed the normal thing in all boys schools no tops or pants for pe as my friends from other schools said they had the same rules. As for no tops even in coed schools, I cannot see the issues as lads do not wear tops on the beach or in public swimming pools. What do others think?

The fashion nowadays is to wear long board shorts which I do not like, but that is their choice.

Emma, you said "It was mixed and indoor PE was single sex but with girls in one half of the gym and boys in the other with a screen/divider between the two halves."
So there doesn't seem to have been much privacy, especially if one could look between the screens.
I think that as secondary school boys we would have done our best to look at the half naked girls from behind the screen from any gaps available.
You also mention that the dance classes were also with girls in just underpants. Were these also single sex or mixed?
Can't imagine 12 year old secondary school boys and girls doing dance classes together in just underpants, unless it was a "progressive" school. :)

Hi Andrea

It could be a bit embarrassing yea. I'd worn pants and vest at primary school so having to do PE with nothing on my top was quite a shock when it first happened. My patents didn't complain about the lack of PE kit and I guess not many other did else things might have changed.

Jack -I guess it was sexist. But since we didn't normally do PE with the boys it wasn't a direct comparison.

Emma,

I would imagine that having to do PE in just pants (or bra and pants) was unpopular - particularly for those who had started to develop, were not yet wearing a bra (which was how I was towards the end of year 7)?

I'm surprised that some parents didn't complain.

Had it been the same at Primary school, or had you been allowed to wear vests or T shirts there?

Hi Emma, I find it amazing how boys were allowed to wear shorts for PE but girls only in underpants at that age, especially when one considers that girls develop earlier than boys.
It should have been the other way round or the same for both. Your school must have been sexist :)
Did you or your parents never complain about this humiliating situation?

I just left school a few years ago and can confirm that, although we never did pe shirtless, we did have compulsory showers after football games, which were done without clothes, although we weren't forced to. After the game, finished we stripped int the changing room, went to the shower room, showered for less than a minute, went back and put school cloths back on.

Hi Jack, years 7 & 8 are ages 11-13, the first two years of secondary school. The boys wore white shorts not their pants which was pretty unfair! They didn't wear tops though.

Emma, what ages were years 7 and 8? I guess we had a different gradation when I was at school in the 60s.
In primary we had Forms 1 to 5. In secondary it was again Forms 1 to 5, or 6 for sixth formers.
What did the boys wear for their PE at the same time as your class? I presume it was the same as for girls, that is in just underpants.
Did you try to look between the screens to see each other in just underwear, as most boys and girls that age in secondary would be obviously curious about each other?
I think it was very unusual for boys and girls in secondary school to do PE in just underwear, even in the 60s let alone in the 90s. Even more so if it was a mixed school. It may have been somewhat common in some primary schools, but not in secondary schools.

I went to secondary school in the 1990s. It was mixed and indoor PE was single sex but with girls in one half of the gym and boys in the other with a screen/divider between the two halves. For gym and dance lessons which made up most of our indoor PE we had to do them in our underwear in years seven and eight. For some girls it meant pants and bra but some of us had to do it in just our pants. From year nine onwards we could wear gym knickers and white vests.

After leaving mixed PE lessons at primary, I attended a middle school where all PE had a dedicated kit and changing facilities (with nude showering) but now also single gender lessons.

On moving up to secondary school we had slightly different kit, but many lessons were mixed gender again. Showering after was still expected and if swimming before and after.

It always struck me as odd to revert back to mixed lessons for some reason, and wasn't universally popular with the girls- I know this because my wife attended the same school!

Hi there.I didnt say the rule wasn't enforced, i simply can't remember anyone being punished or caught wearing underpants. Its a long time ago

Mark, it sounds like the rule was supposed to apply for the entire school life - did it apply to all activities for example sports day or school teams?
Also if the threat wasn't enforced what was to stop you just breaking the rule?

Andrea. I came as a big surprise when we were told that underpants we not allowed under our shorts. It was worse when we did PE outdoors when it rained as our shorts would stick to our bottoms and fronts.
We told that anyone caught wearing underpants would have to remove them in front of the whole class. I actually can't remember if anyone did get caught.

Hi Peri,

Our PE teachers always picked a skins team regardless of what we were doing and being flat-chested well into year 9 I was guaranteed a spot on the skins team.

Those who were "more developed " were obviously allowed to wear bras under their vests, but when told to strip, went down to just bras.

Being at an all girls school the only time I got to see my 2 older brothers (also at an all boys school) was during the holidays. They talked about their PE sessions and had one PE teacher who, if boys weren't sweating at the end of a gym session, gave them an extra hour out on the yard after lessons ended.

Although we were pushed hard, I was always thankful he was not our teacher. It would be interesting to read if other boys were made to sweat during their sessions.

Peri,

Did your PE teacher say why bras weren't allowed under vests in the first year? At our school it was the other way round - our PE teacher would sometimes 'suggest' to a member of the class that it was time they got one if she thought they were holding back from giving their all in a lesson because they were self conscious about their breasts bouncing around!

Mark,
It must have been embarrassing having a mixed PE lesson without underwear in the third year. My ex went to an all boys school and they weren't allowed underwear for the first two years, but they were advised to buy a jock strap in the third year.

John, we didn't wear short trousers compulsory. We wore them volutarily if the waether was nice.
We had compulsory PE kit. White vest, shorts and plimsolls. For team sports we often had to take off our vest off to distinguish teams.
I live in middle Europe.

I can relate to your comment Toby. At primary and middle school PE was mixed. Boys just did it in their underpants and girls wore vest and pants.However at Comp it was segregated. But in third year the upper school gym was closed for two terms due to rennovation so boys and girls did PE together. We wore just white shorts(no underpants) and girls had white shorts and shirts. Yes we got teased and it was very difficult at times.

I had a very similar experience to Claire except that bras were not allowed to be worn under vests in the first year so skins really did mean skins.
I felt very uncomfortable like that at first but soon got used to it and by the January felt confident enough not to wear a vest at all thus ensuring I was always on the skins team.

Hi Andrea
I think our "Music & Movement" lessons were recorded too best I can remember.
Our PE teacher just picked girls at random to take their vests off, everyone had to do it at sometime like it or not!

Will answer your e mail as soon as I can - Having problems with my TALK-TALK (AOL) account at the moment and can't send e mail.

Normally boys and girls did PE separately at my school, but there were occasions when everyone was mixed together. There was one PE lesson when I was about 14 and the weather was just too bad for the boys' class outdoors to go ahead, so instead we were told we'd have to squeeze into the gym where the girls' class was taking place. That meant we had to change into our usual gym kit - white shorts and nothing else. I remember filing awkwardly into the gym, barechested and barefoot, to be greeted with giggling and whispering from the girls, and feeling fairly self conscious. I think it's likely that the girls enjoyed that lesson rather more than the boys did!

Dave, we frequently had mixed sports sessions but it was mainly when it was too wet for the girls to play netball.
It was embarrassing to not being allowed to wear a shirt in front of girls but we had no choice.
The school was a secondary modern that I attended in the seventies.
Did you wear short trousers to your school?

John, why did you have mixed lessonds with girls? Were there single sex and mixed lessons regularly depending on the sports?
How did boys feel havint to be shirtless at mixed lessons with girls?
Was it an English grammar or secondary school? Which decade?

Hi Andrea,

Firstly I should have mentioned my experience was at an all girls school. When I started there was initially reluctance to go topless after having a set kit in primary school but after a couple of weeks you got used to it....not that there was a say in the matter. The "more developed" were allowed to wear bras under their vests but you were always referred to as skins.

Hi Claire,

Fortunately we were never asked to do PE topless. Our teacher used to hand out coloured bibs to wear over our white polo shirts to distinguish between teams when we were playing team games.

Did the more developed girls wear bras under their vests, and if so were they allowed to keep them on if they were picked for the 'skins' team?

I was still flat-chested for the first couple of terms of Year 7, but had developed enough to start wearing a bra at the start of Year 8. There were still some who weren't at that point, but I think most had by the end of that year (although I think in some cases it took a bit of 'prompting' from Miss to get them to start wearing one)!

Andrea

Hi Andrea,

Our female teacher randomly picked which girls would take their vests off. For some reason, probably due to being very flat - chested until well into year 9, I found myself being picked out on a very regular basis. Was this the same for you?

Dave, we frequently had PE with girls mixed and always bare chested as instructed by our teacher. There were never any exclusions. For team events we were identified by the colour of our shorts. I wore grey short trousers with my school uniform, although they were not compulsory.

Hi Stewart!

Were you shirtless for track and fields and cross country either?
How did you play team ball games everyone being barechested.
How did you get to know your PE kit for the first time.Was it in a PE uniform list that you have to do PE shirtless or the teacher was the one who told it to you?
Have you ever had some lessons or sport events with the girls together?
What was the reaction of boys about the PE kit. Was it ever a topic of conversation amongst you?