Burnley Grammar School

You seem to be lashing out or being very cutting to normal comments that don't require those sort of resposnse Alan. Veronica and Nathan the latest examples.

On Veronica's point that you took her to task over, point still stands regardless of your correction. But lets take your corrected point then. Who precisely do you expect to work and teach alongside boys in an all boys school then? Someone has to do it, and as we have seen with the news item about that woman messing about with boys in school, even if you had an all female staff in an all boys school you'd still be having issues in some instances, maybe many more infact. So what do you suggest as your solution then that would satisfy you?

Bernard - yes, it was just the accepted thing, wasn’t it, in those far-off days of the 1960s and 70s.
As there were no such things as trainers, plimsolls were the only type of footwear available for PE and cross country, and were useless. I think most of my classmates - both boys and girls - were glad that bare feet were compulsory.

Ryan - At the time I didn’t really think about experiencing the different feelings underfoot, but I do remember that although some of the cross country course was a little rough, we soon got used to it.

Comment by: Nathan Hind on 18th May 2024 at 00:16


...."I enjoy reading your latest installments Craig as your group progresses in a positive direction.

I would take up a chance to run with such a group as yours if I was invited to do so, time permitting, ....."

Well, you have six weeks holiday coming up soon Nathan (and I believe there is another week at the end of May in most schools as there is another half term, at least in London). There is your chance. Over to you and Craig.

Stephen….

This all happened Between 1967 and 1974, and was the rule from day one at grammar school, so we didn’t query it (although my girlfriend did when we were about 15 - more about that later).

It was always a mixed lesson, like all the other lessons at the school, and for indoor P.E. in the gym or sports hall the boys just wore shorts, and I think the girls wore skirts, but it might have been shorts. The girls also wore T-shirts, but the boys were bare chested.

Outdoor P.E. was on a Wednesday afternoon, with cross country every fortnight, both winter and summer. Again, both boys and girls were compelled to run barefoot...even in winter. In the winter term, the alternate Wednesdays were given over to netball for the girls, again they had to play barefoot. For boys, it was rugby, and this was the only exception to the barefoot rule. We could wear rugby boots.

All the other terms were given over to track and field events, where both boys and girls wore shorts (skirts for girls)?and T-shirts, but again, we were barefoot, no exceptions.

Our P.E. teachers for the most part wore shoes for the lessons, but there was a strange thing with the cross country. Our P.E. teachers were quite young -- the boys' teacher (male) was late 20s, and the girls' teacher (female) was in her early 20s (but, of course, to us teenagers, that was positively ancient!). Both teachers always ran cross country with us -- the man at the front, and the woman teacher at the back. The man wore shoes, but the girls' teacher always ran barefoot -- yet she always wore shoes for all other P.E. lessons, including indoors.

I loved being barefoot for P.E., but my girlfriend at the time hated it. She was okay with going barefoot indoors, but not outdoors. She asked if she could wear shoes for cross country and netball, but was told definitely not: bare feet were compulsory. I remember seeing her crying while she was brushing snow, barefoot, off the netball court.

This regime moulded my whole lifestyle, as I have always gone barefoot as much as possible, ever since and love it...and I am now barefoot probably 90% of the entire time. I can't see the health and safety brigade condoning barefoot cross country at schools nowadays, either compulsory or by indivdual choice.

Comment by: Stephen on 17th May 2024 at 14:28


"I'm loathe to put this here but feel in this case it's worth it.

Just a reminder for people such as Alan that women are often far worse than men. It will be interesting to see what this piece of work, Rebecca Joynes, a school teacher, gets when sentenced after her conviction this afternoon. I noticed it says she was initially only suspended after being caught having sex with an underage pupil. A man would have been instantly dismissed from the job for the same."

I don't think we need a Dutch auction to decide which sex is worse (schoolteachers, after all, are a law unto themselves). This woman behaved appallingly, and it shows a complete disregard for morality and self control. That rare instance of a female paedo. She ought to be ashamed of herself. Personal morality is obviously no longer considered important in the field of education. I only make the point this woman wasn't a P.E. teacher. I don't think it is necessarily the case that a man would be sacked. One teacher I have mentioned on this forum was also suspended and he went on to commit a second series of offences. Teachers are treated a bit like errant police officers and politicians. However egregious their offending, they are usually suspended, often years before dismissal - that applies equally to men and women.


Comment by: Veronica on 17th May 2024 at 17:32


"Alan on 15th May, "In the case of P.E. teachers, WHY do they want to spend all their time with boys?."


That's what the job entails, teachers spending all their time with children. Who else are they supposed to be spending their working time with?"



I said "BOYS", Veronica, not children. Boys. Don't misquote me.

I was referring to men who only wish to work in single sex (boys) schools. We have seen several cases where homosexual paedophiles attach themselves to such establishments - and many of them a P.E. teachers.



Comment by: Greg2 on 16th May 2024 at 21:41



"Comment by: Rob on 16th May 2024 at 16:00
What an idiot he was. Yet another gym teacher who seemed to take great delight in dishing out humiliation and bullying on only the younger and smaller lads. Pathetic really isn’t it how often gym teachers were like this…not all I expect, but certainly many.

I believe there really is something deep and primitive going on that seems to be activated in some adults by their having complete charge and control of those young bodies, as apposed to their young brains."

I totally agree. I was one of the smaller boys (in all respects) even at 15, and I got really sick and tired of our P.E. teachers pejorative remarks and put-downs. However, every cloud has a silver lining, and though I was subject to his insults, I wasn't "big enough" for him to fancy and try his tricks on.

One of my PE teachers had his own special way of dealing with bad behaviour and disruptive pupils in our class. He sent them off to the school library instead to sit and write lines. In the PE kit, and in our school gymnasium if you were a boy anywhere from eleven to fifteen that meant you would be doing PE relieved of everything but some black shorts. Not even allowed your underpants with shorts, and they checked this. I was given just this treatment myself, sent to the library and I had to sit where I was told. The humiliation was total. But maybe not as bad as the school softy who often got picked on by pupils who was pushed out the changing room window in the nude one afternoon at the end of the school day when our teacher had left us to it after making sure we'd showered after PE. Someone put all his clothes in someone else's bag without them noticing and they went home with them and left him at school with nothing to wear but a towel and unable to go home until a kindly French teacher was found who gave him something to wear and drove him home. The culprits were never punished. School could be bloody cruel at times in the early seventies.

The last line where you mentioned your running group being quite middle class is noted by me there. My old gran used to think that the only boys who hung around the streets with their shirts off when I was a kid were those working class lads from the council estate and she saw it as something the less educated would do. But I went to a well to do grammar school and shirtless PE was a big thing there and thoroughly mandated for boys of all ages at school without fear or favour. So the posh boys go shirtless too, not just the council estate street urchins! If anything I associate regimented shirtless PE with being upper middle class and above in the top posh schools more than anything, although in reality I don't think being shirtless, wanting to go shirtless or what type of school you went to or which class you consider yourself to be to have any bearing on shirtless behaviour either in or out of school.

It's quite possible that boys that are educated privately or go to grammars might be far more confident about themselves and about the whole shirtless PE ethic.

Introduce boys to shirtless PE as soon as possible and they will probably end up far more confident in the long term. I'd say begin with it the moment you start school and keep at it. What happens though is that many boys went to school until they were twelve having never done a days shirtless PE in their lives and had quite easy going PE lessons and then are suddenly hit with it and react badly in many cases.

I'm not suggesting this should happen but just making a point - suppose it was compulsory for all boys at all schools from the age of 5 until 18 to be drilled into bare chests for PE when it was taken inside a building like a gym or sports hall, I think there would be a lot more body confidence and all round confidence throughout the male population into later life as well as through childhood.

Comment by: Craig on 17th May 2024 at 22:39
'It would be quite a catch to gain a few teachers, maybe even PE ones, on our bareskin group and see how they like it, especially if we could get any, such as Nathan Hind who teaches, to do so when he's taking regular bare chested PE lessons with boys still.'



I enjoy reading your latest installments Craig as your group progresses in a positive direction.

I would take up a chance to run with such a group as yours if I was invited to do so, time permitting, this would not be a problem for me. I don't doubt that a lot of boys I teach would probably also give it a go if the chance was offered. Many enjoy running. Not that I am proposing any such bareskin running option for school anytime soon.

Hi.

We've got another three new recruits onto our bareskin running whatsapp group. One each in their 30's, 40's and 50's. All by word of mouth and grapevine through those who we already have. That's 38 members. I've been out on a bareskin run with two of them and just me and another guy tonight for a short run. They both said they enjoyed the first experience of running in bare chests immensely. We finished at dusk, so it was bright daylight while we ran and we passed quite a few people tonight as well. Quite a warm night and possibly humid as I was dripping sweat when I finished.

One of the new guys who tried it out tonight is actually a giant of a chap, he said he was 6' 5" tall and was incredibly thin and long limbed. He's quite different from almost all the rest of us on account of his height. As we were running, and he's 43, he was telling us how he was always getting teased for his height and what he looked like, not just in school thirty years ago but even at work. He said he'd done "quite a lot" of shirtless PE when at school as a teenager when he was already well over six feet tall at the time and never enjoyed it. So I asked him why he had chosen to give it a go, and it was because he was doing things on his terms and not somebody else's, which I found really quite interesting. He more or less said he didn't like being told what to do. If you don't like taking your shirt off and get told to do it, like at school, it obviously grates on some people quite a bit.

The other new guy to our group had a well maintained body that he clearly looks after. He was 32, a graphic designer. He'd never done much shirtless gym at school other than the skins and shirts usual thing. I asked if he'd ever run bareskin before by himself and he said no, he couldn't do it by himself but it appealed doing so in a group.

So we are well on track to meet our 50 members by Christmas if this keeps up.

Just take heart those of you on this thread who were fearful and shy at school of the shirtless PE lesson. We have guys in this group now who admit much the same as schoolboys and even as adults but have found a way to confront this. I found the attitude of the six and a half footer ten stone latest member quite brilliant considering he looks a bit outside the normal range and yet he's gone for it. If he can do it, anyone can. We shook hands before we said our goodbye's and he said "I'll be back" when he could easily have said it wasn't for him.

I think this group could help out even the shyest guys. The psychological benefits of bareskin running continue to prove themselves to me.

Tomorrow night at 11pm a group of ten will be doing an 8 mile "round midnight" bareskin run locally, and the only thing most of us will be wearing above the waist will be one of those LED head lights to see the way through some unlit locations away from street lighting. Running at night with those on your head when going to unlit areas helps lots. We will probably finish up about 1am! Many of our group favour these late night bareskin runs more than the daylight ones.


I was reading what you said about barefoot running Bernard. Maybe someone could start up a barefoot running whatsapp group for those who take to that. I know such people exist. I'm not sure whether I could do that outside for long runs though, I think just shirtless as bareskins is enough at once. Although if anyone came on our bareskin running group and wanted to set off barefoot as well who is anyone to stop them.

It would be quite a catch to gain a few teachers, maybe even PE ones, on our bareskin group and see how they like it, especially if we could get any, such as Nathan Hind who teaches, to do so when he's taking regular bare chested PE lessons with boys still.

Our bareskin running group is quite middle class if that means anything at all.

Comment by: Ryan on 15th May 2024 at 01:35
Wasn't there a certain satisfaction being able to check out exactly what all your classmates looked like and being surprised in one or two cases, and wondering what they might be thinking of what you packed, you know it's true gentlemen even if you won't admit it.



I admit it. I quite liked looking at the types of tackle we all possessed when we began showering at secondary school. I also noticed that the shape and size of my classmates bore no relation to their lower down developement, and that was the surprise I remember thinking. Big tall boys were late developers and short small lads could be early. The school showers made us all face up to these things about each other with no hiding place. I guess that's why some people think of them as cruel and unnecessary. I was comfortable with how I looked physically at that age and how I was growing so none of it bothered me. Sympathies to those who found it an ordeal obviously.

Alan on 15th May, "In the case of P.E. teachers, WHY do they want to spend all their time with boys?."


That's what the job entails, teachers spending all their time with children. Who else are they supposed to be spending their working time with?

I'm loathe to put this here but feel in this case it's worth it.

Just a reminder for people such as Alan that women are often far worse than men. It will be interesting to see what this piece of work, Rebecca Joynes, a school teacher, gets when sentenced after her conviction this afternoon. I noticed it says she was initially only suspended after being caught having sex with an underage pupil. A man would have been instantly dismissed from the job for the same.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-69026069

Comment by: Rob on 16th May 2024 at 16:00
What an idiot he was. Yet another gym teacher who seemed to take great delight in dishing out humiliation and bullying on only the younger and smaller lads. Pathetic really isn’t it how often gym teachers were like this…not all I expect, but certainly many.

I believe there really is something deep and primitive going on that seems to be activated in some adults by their having complete charge and control of those young bodies, as apposed to their young brains.

One firm (and quite painful) memory I've got about a PE teacher (1970s) is how he used to be handy with his fists in class with boys constantly. I don't mean punching anyone, but I wonder if anyone else had someone that clenched their hand into a fist and would then crack the top of boys heads very hard with the middle knuckle of his hand, and it could really hurt when done effectively on the crown area. It would even be done when counting out boys into teams or such like, going along the lines of us cracking his knuckle over heads as he went. I noticed how it stopped when we grew up a bit and became almost as tall as him. One of those types you came across in school who seemed to have little respect for his pupils or for his own position in authority over us. He pulled me and someone else from the school PE lesson one day to go with him to the main school staff room and collect some boxes of PE equipment that were quite heavy to bring back into the gym. He made us do this in our gym kit, bare chest and feet. The eyes of various teachers around the staff room turned onto us almost in sympathy and I felt like I wanted the ground to open up and swallow me whole. Then we had to struggle back with a huge box each while he held nothing at all. I always wanted to crack my middle knuckle over his head.

Ryan on 15th May 2024 at 01:35 and Neil on 15th May 2024 at 23:06

The first school showering experiences are probably always educational! It’s the first time you’ve been amongst others all of your age while you see how you compare. I was not quite 12 by the time i joined them all in there, and still very much a boy. I did have to sit with them for weeks before I was able to do gym and to join them and have my first shower. I remember it being quite an unexpected experience for the innocent little kid I still was at that age.

I do remember one boy who I’d already noticed was several inches taller than the majority of us, seeming more muscular too. He turned out to be the first person I’d ever seen completely undressed who looked very much more grown up than the majority of us. His maturity made him look about 16 to me, not 12! Another boy, who left the school at the end of that first year, looked just the same as the majority of us at that age with his clothes on, but something had already happened to him that certainly hadn’t yet happened to me. I remember that being unexpected and surprising to me!

Nature is very contrasting in its depiction of how we all are while growing up, even at the same ages.

Comment by: Ryan on 15th May 2024 at 01:35
'Wasn't there a certain satisfaction being able to check out exactly what all your classmates looked like and being surprised in one or two cases, and wondering what they might be thinking of what you packed, you know it's true gentlemen even if you won't admit it.'



Of course there was. I always laugh when I see comments that make out people aren't paying attention to anyone else in a communal shower situation. Of course they are, we all are. The one clear take out I have from sharing the showers at school when I must have been about 14 was how there was one lad in my class who packed something that looked like it was from my dad and another who had something that looked like my eight year old brother. Most of us were something in between. I don't think there's anything much wrong with boys in class the same age checking each other out or even openly looking, and we had some who used to comment about what they saw in the school showers quite openly. I think that's fine, perhaps even healthy, I don't know. But what we got from the other boys I wouldn't expect from the PE teachers, that would not be quite right. Being able or having to mix with a large group of other naked boys in school could be a reassurance in many ways.

Ryan - yes it really did feel good being able to experience so many different surfaces beneath our feet though some were better than others. We could and did kick mud up further than our legs - often on to our shorts and sometimes even up to our backs but it all came off in the showers except that on our shorts of course - that had to wait until later. There was a feeling of being close to nature running whilst so scantily clad. It was important to us that we were all dressed the same - no one was being treated differently to any-one else. Lack of shirts and shoes was just normal for us - not being used as a punishment or for any-one's gratification.

Comment by: Nicholas J on 14th May 2024 at 21:30


"Good Lord I think this is a horrible thing to say. You seem to be basing your whole attitude on your own dealings with ONE man."

I think it is fair comment, Nicholas, that I only had personal experience of one pervert, but you don't have to go far to find other examples - that of Nick Campbell, of Earl Spencer. The less high profile, but equally disgusting cases at Royal Liberty, Romford, and that latter one was very recent - the man's SECOND conviction was only two years ago. Two other teachers from the same school remain under investigation. There are numerous examples of indecencies with boys, nearly always by male PE teachers reported in the local press. See some of them crawl out of the woodwork here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=british+p.e.+teachers+accused+of+abuse+to+boys&rlz=1CAFORO_enGB1085GB1085&oq=br&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCAgAEEUYJxg7MggIABBFGCcYOzITCAEQLhiDARjHARixAxjRAxiABDITCAIQLhiDARjHARixAxjRAxiABDIGCAMQRRg5MgYIBBBFGD0yBggFEEUYPDIGCAYQRRg8MgYIBxBFGDzSAQgyMjQ0ajBqOagCALACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


If I had the sad duty of interviewing men for a post of this nature, I would regard them with the same suspicion one might equally apply to ladies hairdressers, actors, dress designers, ballet dancers and interior designers. I think I have conveyed what I mean there, without using a word that so upsets so many posters. In the case of P.E. teachers, WHY do they want to spend all their time with boys?.

Just to be fair, we have had recent high profile cases where the teacher has molested somebody of the opposite sex - the Mill Hill teacher who groped two women, the woman teacher who got pregnant with the aid of a 14 year old boy, but those cases are very unusual.

These men, (and one female) whatever their proclivities, seem to have the morals of a goat. Teaching sounds such a dignified, and "humanitarian" profession - sadly too many enter it who are really skunks in sheep's clothing.

Bernard and Stewart.

Some of the methods on here really appeal to me and I wish I'd had the opportunity to do them. I don't know why but barefoot running such as you describe appeals to me in some way, the ability to feel the ground like that and the sensation of getting my feet as mucky as possible, the enjoyment from maybe having to traipse through ankle deep thick mud covering my feet and splashing up the legs.

I think doing this you would discover a new relationship with the earth beneath your feet that most never discover because we constantly protect ourselves from daring to touch the ground.

For the same reason I wish I'd had the chance to run the cross country at my school without my shirt on, to feel the wind across my bare chest, be among all those other boys just the same. Once again it appeals to me as a means to connect with what the environment is like all around as we go through it. I would jump at a chance to join in with something like Craig's group like a shot, and I'm the other side of forty now.

I feel I missed out on something that was well worth having a go at.

One thing I did do as a youngster in the 1990s, and I am 44 now, was bathe in the local ponds near me and do some swimming in them with a collection of mates. On hot days we'd meet up together, strip off and jump in and spend an hour or so just dossing about in the water with each other. Just now and again we might get brave enough to even take our pants off while doing it. I did something similar with my mates at a weir back in 1995 despite a nearby no swimming sign. The water wasn't deep but the weir gave a great mini waterfall effect that was fun to hang around under and very cold even on a hot day. Unfortunately we all got caught one day by a passing ranger who must have been tipped off about us and hadn't heard coming because of the sound of the water. Our clothes were laying nearby and he picked them up and bawled us out at the top of his voice to get out. There were about twelve of us, we'd been having great fun and making such a racket. Half of us weren't wearing a stitch. It was so embarrassing to get caught like that. We didn't think we were doing anything wrong, it was a scorching hot day and we were cooling off and having fun, hurting nobody. The ponds and the weir were my wild swimming days, in the literal sense of the word.

My actual secondary school didn't seem to go very much for bare chests during PE. There was just the occasional skins against shirts in basketball or softball that boys would do with each other. It was uncommon enough to have novelty value when we did it. I think the teacher would divide the class and make the decision. We always wore trainers.

The only time we were barefoot and bare chested in PE was while changing and taking the compulsory showers with each other. Quite a lot of boys seemed to have problems with going in the showers at school, you could tell which ones. I never had this problem and found them to be perfectly acceptable and embraced them easily and didn't mind sharing like that. I had nothing to be ashamed of or to hide and wonder why so many boys feel they do. Wasn't there a certain satisfaction being able to check out exactly what all your classmates looked like and being surprised in one or two cases, and wondering what they might be thinking of what you packed, you know it's true gentlemen even if you won't admit it.

Stewart - As I've mantioned on this site before I had exactly the same p.e. kit as you - shorts only for all p.e. including cross country. I was at grammar school at around the same time as you.
Our cross country route started on a rough track to get us to the rear gate of the school grounds - that track had many stones and was probably the worst part of the route for our feet. We then went along a short section of residential road and across a main road to get to the open parkland. Here we ran on grass and a variety of paths before crossing the road again and returning via a much longer length of residential road to get to the school's front gate.
A few boys struggled with the track for the first couple of runs but we all got used to it quite quickly though it seemed a little odd to start with. However, by November there had been some heavy rain and some of the paths we ran on became extremely muddy. If we had worn plimsolls they would, no doubt, have come off our feet and stayed in the mud. It became very clear why we were sent out to run barefoot. Nothing sinister, nothing sadistic - just common sense.

Alan said;

"Who can fathom the minds of the automatons that were churned out of the teacher training colleges, that taught P.E, "men" who seemed to think they were going to teach in a borstal, and treated each lad as if he were in such an institution. I daresay the "macho man" image was an added lesson amongst all the sweat and whistles, and pretend and spurious "child psychology" cobblers. I have always suspected PE teachers were the bottom of barrel - resentful because they were not bright enough to teach academic subjects, they were aware of the fact, that they were, essentially, the rejects of the profession, and just spent their careers with their brains in their jockstrap."




Good Lord I think this is a horrible thing to say. You seem to be basing your whole attitude on your own dealings with ONE man.

Replying to your post of Matthew K on 25th February this year about your trip to the Commonwealth Institute in 1976 when you had juice thrown on you and the teacher took your clothing from you.


Matthew I have just read your own story here and boy does that sound familiar stuff. I have got something so so similar to you. My class went on a school day trip to Whipsnade Zoo and Woburn Abbey back in July 1976, almost at the same time as you. Yes it was a very hot time that's for sure. I was aged ten at the time. Just like you, it was a Miss who did it. I wasn't feeling too great from early morning and there was a lot of walking around. I began to complain about the heat making me uncomfortable. A little group of us kept complaining and Miss Bennett just told us there was an easy solution to our moaning and obviously hot and bothered herself she made me and the other heat moaners remove our T-shirts for the rest of the trip. I recall how she clipped her fingers at us to do it. In this case there was myself and possibly three others she did that to and we were not allowed to have our T-shirts back and told that better make us stop moaning about the heat. Miss collected the tops and stuffed them in a carrier bag away from us. So I can lay claim to walking around Whipsnade Zoo on a school trip having been stripped to the waist as a ten year old, with some others. We got the tops back when the bus arrived back at school and were reported to the headmistress for misbehaviour on the trip because of it, can you believe that.

Comment by: Stephen on 14th May 2024 at 15:35


....."The trouble with truanting is it looks horrendous on your school record and I liked my almost clean sheet of attendance most terms. Obviously I didn't have the PE issues you dealt with though.
.
Just one final point. Were you actually scared of your PE teachers?"

Thanks Stephen - Perhaps I was a bit short with Sean, but it is just that when anybody finds something funny, about a miserable disgusting situation, even forty years later, it is still like a red rag to a bull.

To answer the final question first - yes the first two years I was terrified of him (there was only one unfortunately) - but so was everybody. I suspect that was his way of (for want a better word) grooming us to obey and keep our mouths shut. It was only when we were older, and we talked with older lads who had been there a few years,and knew the score about his modus operandi (and heard a few examples, one of which I know for certain was true) that fear turned to hatred (I hate to admit that) and sheer contempt,. I despised him, and so did many others. I still do.

To answer the other question - to be frank, I didn';t even think about school reports in relation to jobs. I never aspired to be a cashier in a bank, join the army or work for Fords (the latter two was our schools favourite career advice). In the arrogance of youth I wanted to be a full time professional musician (I didn't realise that good trumpet players were ten a penny and that brilliant ones were not that rare). I was in the ten a penny bracket. I just got jobs and I can honestly say, I never in the years I worked for others pull a sickie or take unauthorised time off, because my employers treated me fairly and courteously, with mutual respect on both sides. If a job bored me, I did the decent thing and left., giving full notice That didn't happen often. I continued to play music till my mid 20s and realising I was never going to be great gave it up. Having given up smoking and drinking, I found it easy to give myself up too.

It did teach me one thing though, and that is the working man (or woman) shouldn't be judged by their school record, because there are often circumstances that make school a trial for some people, but they make very good reliable workers, away from the shouting, posing and bullying.

As regards your point about "wild swimming", it can have very grave consequences for the respiratory system (e.g. swimming-induced pulmonary oedema and bacterial and kidney infection, not to mention ingesting sewage). I got that from a recent Radio 4 programme. Still, I suppose what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Teachers who ordered barefeet in the streets had to be sadists.

Before I forget about this I thought I would come back on here and post this new comment, what I saw earlier today instantly reminded me of this chat on here.

At about 1.15pm this afternoon I was ambling along a quiet footpath not so far from home when I had three middle aged men without shirts stride into view in the opposite to me, garish pink, yellow and red trainers and shorts on. One began slowing to a stop as he approached me so I took my chance and grabbed a quick word and the other two stopped and we had a brief chat. I asked if they were all natural extroverts and they said no. They said that today was the perfect day for running bare chested even though it was cloudy and much cooler than much of the past week. One of the three said he's taken a lot of persuading from the other two but once he did it he hasn't looked back and they've been doing it for 3 years. I said I'd never seen them before and he said they'd run from 6 miles away and didn't usually come my way. None had ever run like this in school but they all had extensive experience of general PE without shirts and the one who had needed persuading by the other two mentioned never being at all keen on it. Now look at you I said.

That aside, I don't think I'm imagining it but I'm sure I am seeing a lot more much older men exercising publicly such as running nowadays. You see some younger women but almost no older women running to keep in shape out and about. I wonder why?

Stewart.

Fields and woodland sounds nice and soft underfoot but woodland can be quite rough I would suggest. How did you find it doing that at first and did it take you long to adjust? There are plenty of sharp natural things on the ground in the best of places after all. It does seem a strange thing to practice as a matter of routine PE mandate to me across an entire class. Surely when you first got told to do this a few of you looked aghast at the prospect, I would have done I think. Not to mention when you got back it meant you would have had to spend disproportionate time scrubbing your feet clean in the shower to rid the dirt. It's a safe bet to say your cross country teachers had their running shoes on didn't they, of course they did!

There's a lot of this getting back to nature stuff going on nowadays, we have wild swimming in rivers and lakes instead of swimming pools, bareskin running with the likes of Craig and others all over the place and there are easily findable examples of barefoot running going on too, which some people seem to refer to as 'grounding' and suggest it has big health benefits for anything from blood pressure to calming and mental wellbeing. All these things are being suggested as good for us, and much of it happens in less than favourable conditions.

It's enough to make you think that all those PE teachers who threw us outside in bare chests or with nothing on our feet were infact thinking first and foremost about our state of mind as well as physical welfare - no, I don't believe that either.

I can only ask you Stewart, do you regard it as a positive experience in any way?


Alan.

I don't doubt you for a moment I'd like to say that. I didn't see anything in what Sean wrote that suggested he doubted your own account either. I think many of us can well and truly believe it, I don't think you can fake such raw passion in the way you recount your time in school PE class. I remember back in the 70's many people making efforts to get let off various types of PE lesson, often when it was bad weather outside and they didn't fancy football in heaving rain and wind for example, which we still had to go out and do no matter what it was like outside. I think some of these people I remember who pleaded desperately with various teachers should have just taken a leaf out of your book and never turned up in the first place!

The trouble with truanting is it looks horrendous on your school record and I liked my almost clean sheet of attendance most terms. Obviously I didn't have the PE issues you dealt with though.

Just one final point. Were you actually scared of your PE teachers?

Morning Paul G.
It was the school rule that all PE, both indoors and outdoors was done barefoot. This practice was quite common amongst schools at the time, and we just accepted it. Don’t forget this was the late 1960s and early 70s.
The cross country route was across school fields and neighbouring woodland.

Comment by: Sean on 13th May 2024 at 22:06





"This comment of yours, you certainly threw a curve ball with that. So you were prepared to go running barechested school PE cross country in the wet weather rather than the better weather just because of fewer people likely to be out seeing you, and were most likely to truant a sunny day's run rather than a rainy day's. I can't help but chuckle a bit at that Alan. So he sent you out bare chested running in the rain then, as well as through the suburban shops. Fascinating take you have there I must say."

I am not sure that I like the idea that my post made you "chuckle", Sean. Believe me there is nothing to "chuckle" about when you are a teenager having to endure a teacher who regarded all lads as a piece of meat to play about with, looking at them, demeaning them, and frankly abusing his position to do so.

I went on very few of those runs I didn't enjoy them, and I don't think many people did, but I did it a few times the rest of the time, as I said, I either invented dental appointments (you only had to tell Mrs. Fennemore, the school secretary , and in hindsight, I suspect she knew why I, and others, were doing it), it got more dangerous when that excuse didn't wash any longer. I would also remind you that it could be damned cold even in spring and summer sometimes, so if you are implying I was enjoying myself you are wrong yet again. I suspect you don't believe me, and that is your privilege but when you are in a school which has at least two weirdos on staff (one a sexual pervert and the other a "discipline" fetishist), there is very little to laugh at, and that "chuckle" of yours would soon be dispelled.

I am surprised that you are surprised that he made us run in wet weather. It does rain quite a lot in London, Sean, and he wasn't bothered, tucked up in his Fiesta - he didn't get wet..


Comment by: Paul G on 13th May 2024 at 22:38
Comment by: Stewart on 12th May 2024 at 22:37


....."Whilst I can quite easily understand bare chest for cross country running that took place with some here in various circumstances in their schooldays I find it less easy to understand the reasoning for barefoot cross country running......."

To be fair to our old perv, he wasn't a foot fetishist (as far as I know) and we were not expected to be bare foot on the pavements but I know from what I have read on here it was a thing. I doubt it would be allowed today with health and safety rules, and the amount of broken glass, chewing gum and dog crap to be found, certainly on London streets, and I expect elsewhere.

Why did they do it? - that five letter word again - power. They did it because they could and could get away with it. It seems a dangerous and completely unnecessary practice and I can think of no defence for it at all. I wonder how many accidents and injuries were covered up?.

Who can fathom the minds of the automatons that were churned out of the teacher training colleges, that taught P.E, "men" who seemed to think they were going to teach in a borstal, and treated each lad as if he were in such an institution. I daresay the "macho man" image was an added lesson amongst all the sweat and whistles, and pretend and spurious "child psychology" cobblers. I have always suspected PE teachers were the bottom of barrel - resentful because they were not bright enough to teach academic subjects, they were aware of the fact, that they were, essentially, the rejects of the profession, and just spent their careers with their brains in their jockstrap.
.

At my middle school going 1971 to 1974 the boys did the "gym" PE lesson in both our bare feet and our bare chest. We took this lesson alongside the same girls from our class. The class was nearly always taken by just our form teacher, for two years it was a woman and one year a man. It made no difference who took us, we always looked much the same.

I actually think if you are going to do gymwork while shirtless then it suits to be barefoot at the same time and not wear plimsolls or socks. The two things complement each other, that's why I think the photo of Burnley Grammar looks a bit of an oddity from my own personal standpoint at school. I'm surprised any school would go for shoes and socks in the gym if they didn't want the tops.

When I first went up to comprehensive the PE was done in t-shirts and I actually felt over dressed and somewhat surprised because I always associated being an older boy at the bigger school in PE meant surefire shirtless PE all round. It wasn't like that for months and then a new teacher came in and overnight we started doing shirtless PE lessons frequently. I was not displeased at all with this actually.

Another slightly topsy turvy aspect to my primary/comprehensive life of PE revolved around the notorious mandate to shower, an ever popular PE demand on pupils. At primary school the shower was put on and we were made to use it every time from the very first lesson I ever had in September 1971 until the very last one in July 1974. But comprehensive school was actually less stringent in this area and by the time a couple of years had passed by and I'd hit about 14 they just allowed us to decide for ourselves. Many boys still chose to shower but a lot didn't. Sometimes I didn't, sometimes you realistically had no choice due to excessive sweat and dirt that just had to be got rid of.

At my primary school when we had a sports day possibly about 1972 we were shirtless for that. I remembetr there was a dragon of a teacher on the main gate who had this really severe pulled back hair into an unfashionable bun who caught me and half a dozen youn lads at the end of the school day coming straight from the sports day as we were and attempting to leave and go home, all carrying most of our clothes in our bags and all very much shirtless. She was having none of it and stopped us, telling us we were not leaving school like that and to put our bags down, and find something to put on, which we did on the spot there and then with no arguing about it.

So many men tell of teachers making them remove their shirts, am i the first to report a teacher making us put them on I wonder!

My skins or shirts option would always to be a skin if I could.

Comment by: Stewart on 12th May 2024 at 22:37

Whilst I can quite easily understand bare chest for cross country running that took place with some here in various circumstances in their schooldays I find it less easy to understand the reasoning for barefoot cross country running, unless you were running around for 3 miles in circles around the gym floor.

What was the thinking for this exactly and when was it. What kind of ground were you running along here, just some soft grass or something similar?

Was it something boys readily accepted then? Running the cross country is hardly the same as doing PE in the school gym after all.

A lot of people talk on here about their bare chest shyness or anxiety from school if they had to do it that way but I remember one or two barefoot worriers too, one of my friends hated doing PE in his bare feet for some reason and I thought his feet looked pretty decent compared to some. I also knew a girl who told me she hated her feet, they were big and bony I think, or something like that.

It's funny, so often boys (and girls) worry about parts of their body, their chests or feet or whatever else and don't want to show these things off when they actually look perfectly nice and possibly better than most.

I also went to school with a chap who was very handsome but could never accept how nice he looked and was always looking for reassurance.

The wrong PE teacher saying the wrong thing in a throwaway line can crash someone's self esteem if they are already brittle when it comes to their self perception.

Alan, 13th May 2024.
It would be easier to say how many I took part in, and the answer was not many - only on rainy days when there were fewer people about. I could face them the rest of the time.



This comment of yours, you certainly threw a curve ball with that. So you were prepared to go running barechested school PE cross country in the wet weather rather than the better weather just because of fewer people likely to be out seeing you, and were most likely to truant a sunny day's run rather than a rainy day's. I can't help but chuckle a bit at that Alan. So he sent you out bare chested running in the rain then, as well as through the suburban shops. Fascinating take you have there I must say.