Burnley Grammar School

Ric, I think your PE teachers might be an exception rather than the norm. My PE teachers never went shirtless or barefoot with us. Often they'd be wearing a full tracksuit and trainers whilst we all had to run around the gym wearing nothing but our shorts.

Matthew on 3rd March 2021 at 16:46

At my (boy's grammar school) the PE teachers (four of them) were always bare chest indoors and outdoors when running or for athletics. They wore shirts when referreeing or playing team games as did all the lads.

They also wore plain white shorts like we did and it was obvious that they didn't wear underpants either so there were no double standards, one rule for all.

For many posters on here, (myself included), PE was done stripped to the waist. I wonder how many teachers imposed this policy on themselves. Mine certainly didn't and neither did the teacher in the photo at the top of the page.

Jonno G: First off, I'd say parents are (or were - perhaps things have improved?) far too obsequious to teachers (indeed, teachers have a highly inflated view of their own importance - the funniest thing I heard on Radio 4 this week was not in one of their "comedy" shows that have been running since God was a lad, but in a morning news broadcast. There was a story about the government considering summer school this year to help those pupils who have fallen behind in the past year due to Covid. Some spokeswoman for a teaching union actually said, -without a hint of irony - that she "was seriously concerned that teachers would burn out if they were forced to work during their summer holidays" - bless them, they had, like the rest of us, several free weeks last year, and very few of us get a minimum of 12 weeks holiday a year, including Easter, Summer and half terms. They should try self-employment - in normal times you can work 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. Perhaps parents are intimidated by their own school-day experiences?.
Whatever, the crap I had to put up with in the years between 11-16 would make me question the motivation of teachers far more robustly..

In my view, there are deep psychological flaws in men - or women - who want to intimidate 9 year olds, and I think any teacher (but especially those in physical education) ought to be made to undergo in-depth psychological tests to see what their problems are. In my case I think some of the wizened old teachers were either hen-pecked at home, or had trouble with the bottle, and took it out on the boys..One of our teachers problems could not be explained away like that, though.

We know these days that, just like the medical profession or the church, many dirty old men still manage to get into teaching (this applied even more in the 1980s and ear;lier when they didn't have to undergo CRB checks), and if they get found out, very often instead of being sacked they are given a glowing reference so they can go somewhere else usually far away from their questionable behaviour, to be the rotten apple in the barrel. Most professions don't like to admit they have a serious problem, unless they are forced to by publicity.

I am glad the female replacement at your school changed the rules - it might not have upset many of you to have to be dressed minimally, but it would be difficult for some for different reasons. I think, to answer your question, it has less to do with feminism and more to do with equality. As more schools become co-ed and often have mixed lessons, it shows great inequality to have boys just in shorts and girls covered up.Quite rightly, nobody would suggest that girls be made to dress down, and let's not forget some girls can be as big a bully as boys can - some boys can be subjected to bullying by both sexes. If a boy wishes to remove his top, I wouldn't stop them, but it should be a personal decision, and not used to coerce every pupil into doing so. The sense of power and control, or something far more sinister, should not be in the hands of a teacher, whether that pupil is 9 or 18.

Hi Alan, Some teachers were brutal in the way they treated boys. I first was picked to strip off as a very ordinary 9 year old and stripping off to the waist in midwinter after snowfall or a hard frost was never easy whether it was your first or 100th time but I do recall lads saying they'd be warmer stripped rather than wear a thin lightweight vest. In the gym to be honest a vest would have simply stuck to you and if you can feel sweat dripping down your back or chest the last thing you want is a thin top. Done properly exercising bare chested helps to instill confidence and trust and at no time was there ever any sign of inappropriateness with anyone. Oddly, in 2000 after a female head was appointed, stripping off ceased and parents protested to the head and governor's and even the LEA on the grounds it improved the boys physicality, a point which remains valid in today's feminist environment. Would that be the case if inappropriateness had been identified?

Jonno G: I am glad you never felt threatend, but I amazed that none of the three sets of parents didn't question WHY their sons were not singled out in this manner. I really don't see the need, either outdoors, or given the light weight of singlets and tee shirts, for this bare-chested policy, especially as late as 1996. Even before Savile and Cyril Smith MP were exposed for the men they were, it was well known that, for example, priests, who preached against sin, saw nothing "sinful" in molesting young choir boys. Just because a person hides behind a "profession", doesn't exclude them from scrutiny. Was this an older teacher who perhaps could hide behind the excuse that this was the way things had always be done?. If he was younger , I should say the headmaster of your school should have noticed his tendency to "hand pick" the same lads every lesson, and questioned his motives.

Hello Alan, To a point I agree. Being bare chested indoors made sense. Everyone was pushed hard and would be visibly sweating before we were half way through the session. Outdoors was kind of different. Two other lads along with me could guarantee to strip to the waist 99% of the time, Both my parents completely backed the teachers approach throughout school and I never once felt threatened or bullied into stripping down.

Sorry the comment TO Jonno was made by myself. I stand by every word of it as well.

Jonno G: This is yet another example of, at best (if you can call it that) a teacher allowing power to go to his head, or at worst, perhaps the ones he liked to see with damn all on he fancied..

This is a great photo. Our school had a mandatory bare chest policy for all boys regardless of indoor activity, this was preferred as you'd sweat up. Outdoors we had a rugby top however our teacher preferred a skins team and would hand pick the lads he wanted to strip off and leave their tops along the sidelines. For cross country runs we wore blue vests. Before each run we'd all gather and again the teacher determined who would strip off and vests would be left in a line on the school yard. Being "good" at sports simply meant you'd always be one of the first lads to be told to strip down. Trainers were always worn and I left school in 1996. This is the UK if anyone wonders.

I was sad when state grammar school education ended, because for a number of years, despite controveries about selection, these schools provided a good education for at least some working class youngsters.

During those years many private fee-paying schools closed, because parents realised that their children could receive as good an education for free at their local grammar school.

But, back in the day, it was admitted during a TV interview, that the grammar schools had to be closed, because they were accepting the children of Labour voters, but turning out young people who later voted differently!

In other words, grammar school children were getting too good an education - so it had to stop!

Luckily I was able to complete my secondary education before the local authority bowed to political pressure, and converted my old grammar school into a comprehensive.

Matthew and Jason: I suspect quite a few of the stories published here are fantasies. What I think is the most worrying thing is, true, or not - it is what the writer would have LIKED to happen.

To Jason. I submitted a comment that Four's four-hour punishment reference was fiction but it didn't get published.

four, since you didn't reply after my statement that i believe your post is unbelievable... so it confirm my supposition that your post is just a product of your fantasy.

Barry J on 12th February 2021 at 12:44

Barry, men swimming naked was the norm in times past. While women in Victorian times went down to the sea in their bathing machines, men went further along the beach, stripped naked and went for a swim. Trunks in relative terms are a recent invention. Other countries particularly in Germany and Scandinavia still quite commonly have naked swimming, I've certainly done it in Germany and Finland both in pools and outdoors - on a beach in Berlin and in lakes in Finland. In Germany it is often mixed, in Finland single sex is the norm at least IME.

Sam
a boarding school as I have mentioned before so it was an independent school or ‘public school for boys’! There between 1968 and 1976 so almost contemporary with you

Suddenly, it appears to have become National Jockstrap Month here. I can only say again at our school until the age of 16 you were not allowed to wear anything under your shorts officially BUT it was made known, quietly, that when you got to 14/15, you could wear your Speedos under them if it made you feel more comfortable, but this was not to be advertised by exposing the top of them over your shorts. At best a blind eye was drawn.

So many of you complain that boys these days are "feminized" because they no longer have to run through the February streets wearing only shorts, but you can't have it both ways. If boys are that much more shy these days (and possibly they are), I very much doubt they are rocking up at JD Sports to buy a jockstrap. I can't prove that, and I am certainly not going to risk arrest by standing outside the local comp or SportsWorld to find out

Even professional footballers don't wear them these days (the number of "d*ck slips" on social media prove that). There is currently a vogue for ridiculous underpants which have no backside in them, and are described as "fashion jockstraps", but at the sort of working class school I went to, such garments, and the original version, would have been regarded as a bit "gay", as this strange garment forms a fetish for gay men.

If boys are wearing track suit trousers, and according to many of you, virtually anything else they like, refusing to shower etc, I very much doubt that very many of them are risking undressing to put one of those things on.

We had a few jack the lads at school who jumped into fashions in shirts and underwear etc, but not even the most sporty ever wore an athletic support, and they were never mentioned by our teacher

Fred
I also tried the nylon version and, like you, didn't find it comfortable and went back to wearing the cotton version. It was really comfortable to wear. It was a pity that it seems that Litesome ceased making jockstraps. But as you say, there are so many different ones available nowadays particularly online. It seems that it might be just you and me wearing them nowadays !

Thanks for sharing four. The boys are barefoot too are you ok with that? Girls were still allowed shoes? What kind of sports is done like that and what about swimming class?

Is the British teacher doing punishments as well?

Martin - a boarding school - 1966 to 74 - Litesome was the only jockstrap brand I remember - modern kids are spoilt for choice today - what about you what school? Also independent school if you’re talking about ‘fagging’ I presume

Roy
Like you, we all had Litesome jocks. I don't think that there were any other makes in the sixties. Most of us had the standard cotton ones, a few, mostly the keener types had nylon ones. I had one for a time but found it rather uncomfortable after a while and I reverted to the cotton ones. There is, of course, there is a huge variety available today.

Four thanks for your reply. They were all ok with being barefoot even outside but were struggling for just being shirtless? Also he made them 4 hours standing outside? Honestly that sounds highly unbelievable.

Hi Jason,

Yeah we were all barefoot but nobody cared about it. We only hated being barechest. Girls got to wear shoes.

Actually we only needed to be shirtless for calisthenics exercises. However, our weekly P.E was 2 hours, the 1st hour is calisthenics. We were expected to already be shirtless in the classroom before the P.E teacher arrives. After he came, we would line up then follow him to the field. All of us left our shirts in the classroom. In the first few lessons, some boys went back to put on a shirt after calisthenics. After a while most just finish the 2nd hour shirtless. We don't have swimming lessons.

We were quite obedient so he doesn't need to punish us. Although in the first lesson a few boys were hesitant to take their shirts off and one even cried. He punished them to stand outside the school gate shirtless with their arms up in the air for 4 hours.

Fred

Yes like you I remember going to the local sports shop to buy my first jockstrap. I cannot remember the price but it was a Litesome make. Most of the other boys in my class were wearing one for sports and so I wanted to join them. As others have said earlier "a rite of passage". I found them very comfortable for all gym and sports. Like you I still wear one for activities and under shorts in the summer.

Thanks for sharing four. The boys are barefoot too are you ok with that? Girls were still allowed shoes? What kind of sports is done like that and what about swimming class?

Is the British teacher doing punishments as well?

Four: I think that this proves we have/had more perverts in the British system, and as an end has been put to their queer ways in the UK, they have emigrated to countries where they think they can still get away with it. I hope not for too much longer

Hi Charles,

I guess none of us ever told our parents about it, most of the boys found it weird and disliked it but none of us dared objecting it. During my first year, I was shocked to find out I have to be shirtless during P.E, there were a lot of shy boys but we all took off our shirts once we saw other braver boys take off.

The P.E master did say when he was in England he made boys do P.E shirtless as well so we won't be having it any different. I did ask around and found out there are maybe only 1 or 2 other schools like mine and coincidentally, they all have a head or P.E master from Britain.

We all have 2 hours of P.E every week, its mixed, so technically all shirtless sessions were mixed. The girls wore shirts and shorts. They did tease the boys by saying "we will be seeing you shirtless soon!" or something like that.

Four, what did the parents have to say about the imposition by the British teacher? Did no one object or find it weird? Do you know if this is a rule in any other Taiwanese school?

(How often) were shirtless lessons mixed sessions? What did the girls wear? Did they tease the boys?

I started at an all boys prep school in 1962. We played football and rugby in the winter months and cricket in the summer term, we wore nothing under our shorts, I don't remember it being a rule and I think it was just custom. There were certainly no "inspections". There was a communal shower which held about 30 of us at a time. We were usually covered in mud and certainly sweat, so showering was essential. I fail to understand those who would ban showers, how else could you get 100 or so muddy and sweaty small boys clean in less than hour?
I moved on to a much larger school in 1967 at the age of 13 and the usual games were played as well as more running and gym. It soon became obvious that the older boys were wearing jockstraps as the changing rooms were open, and after a short time most of us had them and wore them for all games, gym and other activities. I seem to remember that they cost 6 bob in the local sports shop.
I started wearing a jock again in my 30s after a bit of back trouble and found it a big help and still wear one for work and all physical activities.
,

Sam
Not all indelible inks were as good as others, so there was some interchange of kit I seem to remember ... and picking up sodden kit from the changing room floor wasn’t an easy task for us ‘fags’ as we known! The laundry system left a lot to be desired but hey ho we have all survived. Which school did you go to Sam?