Burnley Grammar School

James - just to clarify some points.

1) What did the girls wear during your PE lessons?

2) Are you talking about primary or secondary school?

For context, "PE" at my secondary school in the 1990s was a mixed lesson, with your form group. We wore our usual PE kits for everything except gymnastics.

We had a "Summer" kit of a white polo shirt, white ankle socks and white trainers. For 'bottoms' us lads had black football shorts, and the girls had black gym skirts & knickers.

In the winter we all swapped the polo shirt for a long-sleeved yellow reversible rugby top and the socks for black knee socks.

When we had gymnastics everyone was barefoot, the girls had leotards and footless tights. Us lads kept our football shorts but also had a black vest just for gymnastics.

We were never stopped from wearing underwear under our shorts. The only underwear 'rule' anywhere in PE was that the girls were supposed to wear black knickers under their gym skirts.

For outdoor sport (football, rugby, cross country) we wore a reversible rugby shirt. I found it so heavy, particularly in the rain. I’d have preferred a lighter alternative or to go shirtless.

We used to wear football boots for cross country runs which were all routed through fields or on dirt paths. That at least meant there was no trouble with grip.

This afternoon I’ve been rubbing down the plaster on a ceiling which made he so hot and sweaty that I had to take my t shirt off to cool down. It reminded me of how unpleasant it was doing PE before the shirtless rule for lads PE was introduced at my school.

James,
Barechested PE rule was brought in when I was 9 at Primary School and I didn’t mind being seen by girls then. At Co Ed Senior School it was different, girls made fun of skinny and fat lads when they saw us stripped to the waist in the gym or doing cross country. I was a skinny lad and wish that I’d been to a boys only Senior School. Apart from that I was perfectly happy being made to exercise shirtless.

Dave,I think most of the boys were slightly apprehensive when we realized that we were going to share the gym with the girls, especially as we were only wearing shorts. I always thought that the girls were more appropriately dressed for our sporting activities than the boys.

Toby T We were expected to be barechested indoors. Outside, well it depended on what we were doing. In the winter Xcountry was always done barechested regardless of the weather. We also often played football skins vs shirts and had regular outdoor fitness sessions in either teams of skins vs vests or with everyone barechested, The teachers decided on the teams and like you, when we were made to strip to the waist we simply just got on and removed both t-shirts and vests. Being mixed school of course the girls saw you topless both in the gym or outside from day one so were used to it.

James: What was the reaction of boys having to do PE shirtless with girls present?
Answering your questions: Here in Middle-Europe the primary school lasts from age 6 to age 14 (or 15 sometimes). The secondary school (high school) lasts from the age 14 to age 18)19). I went to these kind of schools.
In primary school our PE kit was white vests shorts and pumps and socks.Shirts vs skins were mandatory in some team games. In secondary school the PE kit was T-shirts shorts and pumps and socks.

Toby T, I enjoyed cross country runs in winter wearing only shorts and trainers but no way would have wanted to run barefoot.

Toby T,we also did our PE and games bare foot,we were only allowed to wear our shorts.

James, did you do outdoors PE barefoot too? That was pretty much the norm for my school unless it was rugby or football we even ran cross country shirtless and barefoot which sounds more worse than it actually was because plimsolls were no use for running through the mud.

Dave,
We sometimes had PE with the girls and shared the the gym.
Weather permitting we just wore our shorts,otherwise we were allowed to wear a vest.Most boys found in very cold wearing shorts in cold weather.
What type of school did you attend and what did you wear for PE/

Toby T: Thank you for your reply!

James: So you were in different houses in one class? I attended another type of school here in middle Europe so that's why I ask this.
Did you have PE classes with girls or separated boy's only classes?
What did you wear outside?

Hi John,
We were divided into four house teams with four different colors:red,yellow,green and blue. We were not allowed any form of underwear and did PE barefoot.

Hi James,
Just interested to know how you knew which coloured shorts to wear. Did the PE teacher come in the changing room and divide lads into teams before each lesson or did you have a House system?. We did PE in shorts and pumps, no underwear permitted but were given coloured armbands if we played team games.

Hi Dave,
I went to a mixed school in the eighties and we just wore our shorts for PE and nothing else at all.We wore different colored shorts to identify us for our teams. It was a 'speech topic' among ourselves, but we were coerced to wearing just our shorts whether we objected or not.

Dave: Why should it be a 'speech topic' amongst boys about what they wear for PE? - let them get on with it.

Hi Dave, so in reply...
When did you go to schoo? 90s - 00s
Did you go to a boys only or a mixed school? Mixed
How did you play team sports everyone being shirtless? We wore coloured sashes
What did you have to wear outside? Activity dependent either white polo white shorts and bare feet or rugby shirt navy shorts and trainers
What was the boy's reaction having to be shirtless for PE ? No reaction we just took our shirts off. I think more were bothered by having to be barefoot in the gym.
Was it a speech topic amongst you? Sorry I don't understand the question

Hi Toby T!

You've written you wore only white shorts for PE. When did you go to schoo?Did you go to a boys only or a mixed school? How did you play team sports everyone being shirtless? What did you have to wear outside? What was the boy's reaction having to be shirtless for PE ? Was it a speech topic amongst you?

These lads seem to be wearing a similar kit to the one I wore which was plain white shorts and nothing else. No shirts, underpants, socks or plimsolls just shorts and bare feet for all indoor PE. Nice easy and simple.

No, it probably wasn't hygienic, especially if you were one of the last in!

I remember watching a documentary about amateur rugby in days gone by.

The former players commented on the baths, in constant use by all the different teams. The senior first team would use the baths first and get them hot, with seconds thirds etc down to younger players after to the point where they would be cold and muddy by the time the teenagers got in.

Unhygienic, but I wonder if it did them any harm.

Stuart, a couple of my friends went to schools where a PE teacher was discipline master. One said initially that his PE teacher had done only what was needed. Later on, he admitted that he had actually done his job enthusiastically. The other, who had been in secondary late '40s and early'50s, said his PE master had his canes out on his desk at 8:30am and that they were in constant use through the day. O tempora, o mores!

Thanks Drew. lt doesn't sound very hygienic!

From a quick search for Barnard Castle School, it looks as though they had space for a separate bathroom for each boy.

Turner,
Boys grammar school in the north of England in late 1960s / early 1970s.

Don't know about school communal baths, but in my youth our school went to compete against Barnard Castle school in County Durham. Instead of the showers we expecting, there was a room filled with 20+ individual bath tubs! We were all taken aback at such opulence!

Drew

I had never heard of a communal bath in a school. Could you tell us what years that was and perhaps what type of school/location?

On the subject of the length of shorts, I understood that long shorts were introduced when Rupert Murdoch wished to broadcast the Premier League to Muslim-majority countries where the sight of bare male thigh was not permitted - or is that a canard?

Copying out the school rules was the punishment used at my school for more serious offences.

As for communal baths, you hear of them at rugby and football clubs In days gone by but I’d not heard of them in schools. All a thing of the past now due to risk of the spread of infection anyway.

As for the fashion for shorts, pre WWII they started out longer and got shorter in the 60s before going longer again in the mid 90s.

We may see a return to shorter shorts at some point but fashion has moved from Jocks to compression shorts and I’m not sure that’ll reverse.

I find the Umbro shorts from the 80s very comfortable and have purchased a few pairs off eBay.

Andrea, yes her brother wore one for PE, so she had seen it on the washing line.
With regard to corporal punishment, only the headteacher used a cane at our school. The main occasions would be when someone was caught smoking and a list of names were read out in morning assembly for boys who were to report to his office. Thankfully I was never on the list. Our PE teacher would sometimes resort to using a plimsoll as a punishment, but other than that the usual punishments were detentions, and copying out lines from a sheet or writing a 100 word essay . In addition to teachers, prefects were allowed to had out 'words' or essays as a punishment.

On another topic, others have mentioned compulsory showers. We had to shower after indoor PE, but the games changing room had a large communal bath that we had to use. OK for the first few in, but not so for the last few, particularly after a muddy cross-country run.

On the subject of the cane, in my school (all boys) each teacher had his own cane and administered the punishment., which was done in front of the class, on the hand. I never saw anyone be made to "bend over". However, the cane was very rarely used. The normal punishments were having to write out lines, or detention after school. the problem with the latter was that your parents would know you were late home from school and want to know why.
Then you got a further punishment.
Only once did a boy receive corporal punishment in PE and that was done by the PE teacher. For some reason one of the lads had his underpants on under his shorts. A BIG mistake!! He had to return to the changing room remove the pants knowing that when he returned he would get the slipper. To add insult to injury, he was whacked with his own plimsoll.

Fortunately the cane had been withdrawn before my experience.

While I believe in harsh discipline and tough PE lessons I think the cane is generally counterproductive and while on the subject, using exercise (Press ups, laps, etc) as punishment can fix a psychological link in children’s minds which puts them off exercise.